Plextools or EAC?

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Plextools or EAC?

2003-01-02 03:16:22

I came across this post when surfing on another forum:

"(Plextools!) Its the only ripping program known to man thats better than EAC. (much easier to use too). I simply cannot say enough good things about Plextools. C2 ERROR CORRECTION IS AWESOME. And with plextools, you don't even have to calculate the read offset correction for your drive, the prog does it for you. (Chances are, whatever offset value you come up with for EAC will be wrong anyway. I have 4 cd's that are in EAC's database for calculating the read offset error of my plextor drive, and those 4 discs each gave VERY different results)Plextools is light years faster than EAC for ripping a very damaged disc. EAC could take 10 hours or longer to rip a severely damaged track on a cd where Plextools will take less than 2. (with similar results). Also, you dont' have to worry about which aspi layer you have installed on your system. Plextools doesnt use aspi. Plextor drives are excellent for backing up your copy-protected discs too! Oh! and hey, did I mention that plextools burns discs too?? Yes, your cd's burned with plextools will automatically have the correct write offset selected for you too! (resulting in PERFECT 1:1 backups) This program has many other excellent features not mentioned here."

What do you guys think?

Bruno

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #1 – 2003-01-02 03:57:16

PlexTools (1.15 and later), when used on Plextor drives, is just as good and even better in some areas than EAC. i've tested it alot myself (Plextor 48/24/48A), and i ended up having more correct rips on badly scratched cd's with PlexTools than with EAC... and mind you, PlexTools just used 1/10th of the time that EAC used.

Also it sets the correct offsets for all Plextor drives automaticly, so thats a good thing.

IMHO, if you have a Plextor drive, its better to use PlexTools than to use EAC. Using PlexTools on non-Plextor drives is stupid, since the error detection and stuff ONLY works on Plextor drives.

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #2 – 2003-01-02 12:35:12

And error detection works properly only on recent Plextor drives (since 12x burners)

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #3 – 2003-01-02 13:02:17

Thanks for the replys. I recently bought the Plexwriter 40/12/40A, so I guess I´ll be using the Plextools, but I have another question that maybe you can answer:

- Setting the correct offset is only important if you want to burn a copy that is exactly like the original, right? If you just want to make your own compilation, then the offset doesn´t matter.

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #4 – 2003-01-05 19:26:36

Quote

Setting the correct offset is only important if you want to burn a copy that is exactly like the original, right? If you just want to make your own compilation, then the offset doesn´t matter.

hmm Not really,

'offset correction' means your extracted WAV will start exactly where the related CD
track starts (not too early, not too late)
- under normal circumstances (normal gap manipulation) -
Without offset correction this is not true: there is a shift - a tiny one . That shift is something you shouldn't be able to hear, so you could say offset correction is a feature for perfectionist people who want perfect results. This is not the right place for an in-depth explanation what offset correction is, but it might be a good idea for you to check it out, either here (complete info) or here (the basic idea, very short & simple).

So, offset correction is useful for mere copies, but also for compilations.

About the EAC/Plextools issue, they both have their strengths, if used correctly
(e.g. -like Pio said- Plextools must be used with a new Plextor, preferably even 24 write speed models, or newer). We cannot say one of them is 'the good guy' and the other one 'the bad guy'

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #5 – 2003-01-09 13:48:37

I'm really sorry for my bad english ...

• System :

- Duron 800
- Windows 2000 SP3

- Drive HP CD-W9100 (no suppport of C2)
- Burner Plextor PX-W2410A

• HP + EAC Secure Mode no C2 :[span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%']

Track 13
Filename D:\XXX\Track13.wav

Peak level 95.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 73F1DC11
Copy CRC 73F1DC11
Copy OK

No errors occured

[/span]• Plextor + EAC Secure Mode no C2 :[span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%']

Track 13
Filename D:\XXX\Track13.wav

Peak level 95.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC A80ACCF9
Copy CRC A80ACCF9
Copy OK

No errors occured

[/span]• Plextor + EAC Secure Mode with C2 :[span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%']

Track 13
Filename D:\XXX\C2\Track13.wav

Peak level 95.2 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC A80ACCF9
Copy CRC A80ACCF9
Copy OK

No errors occured

[/span]• Plextor + Plextools 1.18 :[span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%']

24 CU errors in sector 183284(LBA), 40:43.59(MSF), 03:37.39(MSF in track)
Recovery retry 1 : 24 CU errors in sector 183284(LBA), 40:43.59(MSF), 03:37.39(MSF in track)
Errors detected, speed reduced to 4 X CLV[/span]

• Screenshot of the error present in each extraction :

• Question :

Why EAC (with C2 activate) have found a suspicious sector at the good place of te real error (track quality = 99.9%) and not with no C2 (track quality = 100.0%) ? Do I have to think that EAC is more "exact" with C2 for plextor drives finally ?

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #6 – 2003-01-09 15:15:46

Hi,

A little remark first - because details can often be important - your graph cannot be the same for CRC 73F1DC11 and CRC A80ACCF9. The wrong sample(s) might be the same in both instances, or it (they?) might be elsewhere. Have you tried binary compare on the two possible extracted WAV files ?

Second: What you describe is a bit scary, and looks like it should be examined a bit further, maybe with other "identical" source cd's and/or drives. What source cd are you using ? Is it pressed or burned ?

Anyhow, it doesn't look like the easiest problem to explain (and to solve).. but we'll try

Cheers

Edit: corrected slight mistake.

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #7 – 2003-01-09 16:58:41

Quote

Why EAC (with C2 activate) have found a suspicious sector at the good place of the real error (track quality = 99.9%) and not with no C2 (track quality = 100.0%) ?

The C2 errors are reported by the drive, EAC by its self is comparing consecutive reads. So if the reading results are identical EAC will say it was right.

BTW. You did disable caching in EAC, didn't you?

Quote

Do I have to think that EAC is more "exact" with C2 for plextor drives finally ?

In the case of this CD this seems true. With C2 you depend on the drive to report errors, the problem is that not all errors are reported by most drives.
--
Ge Someone

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'] edit: restated last part[/span]

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #8 – 2003-01-09 20:42:21

Easy : Plextools detects only 24 errors (in bytes) thus one sector (6 samples, not necessarily together). And CRC are ok on both drives. Therefore your CD is near perfect, exept for a very tiny defect.

This defect is perfectly localized, and return errors on each reading. Thus EAC reading twice always get the same info, and doesn't detect the error. Only C2 can detect it.

This is a rare case, because the CD needs to be in perfect shape in spite of the errors. If the errors were caused by a bad CD, there would be quite no chance for them to occur twice at the same place. It shouldn't come from anything visible on the CD either (scratch etc), because there would be more errors, and not repeatable.
This is probably a mastering error, or a burning error. I bet it's exactly at the same place (not necessarily looking the same size) on both drives. Burning TAO with no gaps may lead to such errors, but they would occur between tracks. Burning on a standalone too, but the error would be at the beginning of track 1.
It may be a burnproof flaw, or a Z CLV one, provided the drive would have had a problem (neither burnproof nor Z CLV lead to errors under normal conditions).

What is strange is that the error causes a peak. Could you post a more detailed picture, or cut'n paste the peak in a little wav and send it to me, so that I can make a sample-by-sample picture of it ?

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #9 – 2003-01-14 23:12:27

I own the plextor 40X max too. I use EAC without C2, and without the cache, and I use "Accurate Stream". Is this the correct method to use?

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #10 – 2003-02-19 03:16:07

Quote

Also it sets the correct offsets for all Plextor drives automaticly, so thats a good thing.

IMHO, if you have a Plextor drive, its better to use PlexTools than to use EAC. Using PlexTools on non-Plextor drives is stupid, since the error detection and stuff ONLY works on Plextor drives.

Just wondering, I have a TDK 12x10x32 which according to this site is the same as a Plextor 12x10x32. I have installed PlexTools but am curious if my drive will be able to take advantage of PlexTools capabilities. Does anyone know if my TDK will be as accurate as a Plextor or do I need to rename my TDK? Thanks for any input.

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #11 – 2003-02-19 04:07:21

Quote

Just wondering, I have a TDK 12x10x32 which according to this site is the same as a Plextor 12x10x32. I have installed PlexTools but am curious if my drive will be able to take advantage of PlexTools capabilities. Does anyone know if my TDK will be as accurate as a Plextor or do I need to rename my TDK? Thanks for any input.

I think you would have to flash it to a Plextor firmware. This is dangerous, as it could damage your drive (though unlikely) and void your warranty. Since it is an old drive, I doubt it is still under warranty, so you might want to give it a shot.
...Hmm, it´s been a while since I read how to flash it to a Plex (I have a LiteOn myself, which are easier to flash with other firmwares) so you might want to do a search in Google of go to the Plextor forum on CDfreaks.com

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #12 – 2003-02-19 05:22:57

Plextor has a small utility to identify Plextor drives, it may recognize your drive as a Plextor, Plextools upgrades and the utility as well as flash files can be found here..
Plextor.
Plextools latest upgrade is v1.19.
I use a 24/10/40A with plextools, and it rocks! Fast, with good results, a must have if you use a Plextor drive.

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #13 – 2003-02-19 17:05:22

Well I have used Plextor's upgrade utility to upgrade my firmware to the latest 1.10 version but my burner is still identified as a TDK. I know how to change the ID to a Plextor as explained here. What I was wondering if anyone knows is if PlexTools will correct the offsets on my Plextor drive even though it is identified as a TDK or will I need to rename my drive to a Plextor in order for it to do this and take full advantage of PlexTools? Thanks.

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #14 – 2003-02-19 17:15:33

AFAIK PlexTools doesn't decect offsets but use a database containing plextor drives. So probably you need to rename your drive. But why don't you just test it? The offsets detected by eac are the same (you have to divide by 4 as plextools' unit is samples while eac's is bytes).

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #15 – 2003-02-19 18:09:38

I just finished ripping a couple of hundred songs with Plextools
and my Plexwriter 48/24/48.
I followed Pio2001's advice to rip with Plextools, since I have a
Plexwriter. Hope I made the right decision...
Anyway, all the songs sound identical to the original .cda, so at the
end of the day this is all that matters, or not?

BTW, are the offsets Plextools reports for my drive correct?

The offsets are:
read offset: -392 bytes
write offset: -120 bytes

So, the values I should enter in EAC should be:

read offset correction: 98
write offset: -30

Am I right?

Plextools or EAC?

Reply #16 – 2003-02-19 19:04:03

Yes.

Notice