New to burning

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New to burning

2002-12-31 13:53:08

I bought a Plextor 48/24/48A Plexwriter, and now I can finally start burning stuff
(it's my first CD-R), but in order to do the job well I need to ask some questions,
concerning the burning of audio cds:
a. Is it a good idea to have Nero decompress your mp3 files on the fly, or is it
better to decompress them manually? If yes, what should I decompress my
mp3s with? What should I decompress my mpcs, oggs and mp4s with? Are there
command line switches for decoding?

b. Should I start worrying about read/write offset? Until now I have never bothered
to find out what offset is.

c. Should I use MP3Gain, VorbisGain, and Replaygain to adjust the volume of the files
I wanna burn? Will the gain info be taken into consideration when burning? How do
I make a cd with the same volume throughout? I guess that using the Normaliser in
Nero is a bad idea, or not?

d. What other stuff should I be aware of?

e. Are there (free) ogg, mpc, ape etc. plugins for Nero 5.5 ?

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer.

New to burning

Reply #1 – 2003-01-01 19:35:00

I guess noone will answer my questions...

At least I hope someone can help me with the following problem:

I compiled a data cd with Nero, then burned it at 16x, an afterwards, the verification tool
(enabled by checking the "verify data" in the write dialog box) returned a "verification failed"
message. I checked the cd and to my dismay many files were corrupted. I used a 80min/700MB
Plextor CD-R. Why did this happen? Is there any way to prevent this?

New to burning

Reply #2 – 2003-01-01 20:07:54

I suggest you try a different brand of CD-Rs in case the one you've got are low quality. Also try to keep your files in reasonably long paths, because in many cases Nero has trouble burning files that are buried deep inside folder trees. You can also try to make a single session CD and see if it works better and finally I would advise against using Nero Express and going for the Nero Wizard or manual mode.

As for your previous questions, I can only tell you what I do, I decode my mp3s with LamedropXPd and I burn the wavs with Nero. My mp3 collection is already mp3gain-ed and the volume level info is taken into account during decoding to .wav , so by all means use mp3gain.

I use MuseDrop to decode my .mpc files into wavs but I don't use any extra switches, maybe someone more experienced can give you more info on musepack files.

New to burning

Reply #3 – 2003-01-01 21:09:37

Quote

a. Is it a good idea to have Nero decompress your mp3 files on the fly, or is it better to decompress them manually?

Decompressing them manually allows you to check that the resulting wavs are not corrupted. Quality is not an issue here.

Quote

b. Should I start worrying about read/write offset? Until now I have never bothered to find out what offset is.

No, it's for advanced processing (CRC checking of copy vs original, multiple drives ripping of dead CDR...)

Quote

c. Should I use MP3Gain, VorbisGain, and Replaygain to adjust the volume of the files I wanna burn?

No, there is no reason to change their volume.

Quote

How do I make a cd with the same volume throughout? I guess that using the Normaliser in Nero is a bad idea, or not?

In this case, if you have a problem of volume when you make a special compilation, yes, you can use Nero's normalizer. It won't make all tracks sound really equal. A dynamics compressor would be needed for this purpose, but an RMS normalization can help if there are files that were not properly recorded.

Quote

d. What other stuff should I be aware of?

The FAQ will give you more infos about MP3 decoders, using MP3gain, and offsets.

Quote

I compiled a data cd with Nero, then burned it at 16x, an afterwards, the verification tool (enabled by checking the "verify data" in the write dialog box) returned a "verification failed"

That's weird, Plextor CDRs are usually Tayo Yuden ones, very high quality. Was the CD perfectly clean ? A little scratch, barely visible, but circular, can turn some data unreadable if it's parallel to the groove, or if it zigzags.
Try to burn faster (32x), or maybe slower (4x). The only problem I can remember of about 16x burning is that it was too slow for a LiteOn 40x overclocked to 48x.

New to burning

Reply #4 – 2003-01-01 21:10:32

As far as converting an mp3 or any compressed sound file....I usually convert to wav with WinAmp first......Why? To save me the hassle...Most newer computers can handle the on the fly thing with no problems but I've not seen anything as to how accurate Nero is at converting from mp3 to wav. (which needs to be done to make that CD)

As to your second post....umm..you would think that the blanks that Plextor provided you are decient..Maybe it's just the learning curve of Nero? Let me ask you, did you just use the wizard?

New to burning

Reply #5 – 2003-01-01 21:22:00

Quote

Should I use MP3Gain, VorbisGain, and Replaygain to adjust the volume of the files
I wanna burn? Will the gain info be taken into consideration when burning? How do
I make a cd with the same volume throughout? I guess that using the Normaliser in
Nero is a bad idea, or not?

curent version on mp3gain will change the actual volume of decompressed files, not so with vorbisgain (unless you use a diskwriter in winamp (not sure about that)), there is a version of replaygain for wav files at http://www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00/others.html

p.s. in the future i hope to see the mp3gain version that would work similar to vorbis or mpc implementation of replaygain ( http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....=ST&f=15&t=5243 ).
edit: p.s.2. actualy no need for mp3gain since foobar is out.

New to burning

Reply #6 – 2003-01-01 22:50:51

With that burner (same as i have), always use the "VariRec" function for burning music cd's. This is _only_ available on 4x burning, but imho its worth it. It calibrates the writing dependent on the specific cd-r, the laser temperature, and all that stuff, which results in a compilation that sounds much more "alive", and has as low as possible jitter.

You can also adjust the VariRec settings, but i'd just use the standard "0" setting.

Read more about VariRec here: http://www.plextor.be/english/pdf/PlextorVariRec.pdf
requires Acrobat Reader (included in your PX-W4824A package).

Also start using PlexTools for your DAE ripping! I've tested it alot VS EAC and PlexTools, on very scratchy cd's, rips a more correct rip than EAC. And PlexTools is also _much_ faster.

If you're from the US, and didnt get PlexTools included (only included in Europe/Asia), send me a pm/mail and i'll help you out.

New to burning

Reply #7 – 2003-01-01 23:31:47

Quote

Quote
c. Should I use MP3Gain, VorbisGain, and Replaygain to adjust the volume of the files I wanna burn?

No, there is no reason to change their volume.

What if the MP3's have clipping? Wouldn't it be better to use MP3Gain to adjust the MP3 file so there's no clipping before converting to a *.wav file? If not, then the decoded .wav file and final CD will have clipping. I recently asked this question and was told it was best to adjust the MP3 file for clipping before converting to a .wav file.

New to burning

Reply #8 – 2003-01-02 12:54:33

I'm really pissed off! I tried to burn the data to three Plextor 80 min CD-Rs and one
74 min CD-RW and all of them now have corrupted data. I can't believe it! I mean,
what can screw up burning that much?
The CDs are the Plextors included in the package, and I thought Plextor CDs were
supposed to be good...
I tried to burn the data at a higher speed and the problem became even worse...
I have an old PC: P3 800Mhz, 128 MB RAM, 20 GB Maxtor HDD 7200 rpm, Win XP,
but shouldn't this be sufficient for burning?
Should I update the firmware of the recorder?
I'll try some other brand of CD-R and slower speeds and see what happens...
It's just my luck...

New to burning

Reply #9 – 2003-01-02 17:47:13

When you copy a corrupted file, is it immediately recognized as corrupted, or does it take hours (compared to a good CD) to be accessed ?
If the data is quickly read, and corrupted, then the problem is not the media (=no data read, or very slowly).

Check the IDE master/slave config. Invert the primary and secondary IDE channels (sometimes the drivers are not the same). Install ASPI 4.60 (using the forceaspi program). Install the latest drivers for your mobo. Try another burning program.

New to burning

Reply #10 – 2003-01-02 17:51:37

128mb of ram and Windows XP sounds like alot of pagefile swapping to me, and burning at 48x sounds like alot of buffer underruns..

i've burned on my Plextor media that came with the burner (Taio Yuden media), and, well.. didnt have a problem at all. Check your firmware version, nero version, and so on..

New to burning

Reply #11 – 2003-01-02 21:39:37

Quote

128mb of ram and Windows XP sounds like alot of pagefile swapping to me, and burning at 48x sounds like alot of buffer underruns..

I don't burn at 48x, but at 24x and 16x, with burn-proof activated of course.
128 MB RAM are indeed inadequate, but I need double-bank SD RAM for my motherboard,
which is hard to find...

Quote

When you copy a corrupted file, is it immediately recognized as corrupted, or does it take hours (compared to a good CD) to be accessed ?

Well, the Nero verification log states that more than 50% (112 out of 182) of the files are
different than the originals that are on my Hard Disk.
I can't see the differences in the mp3s (all mp3s on the CD-R do play), but many other files
such as zips and installers fail to work. For instance, I put the installer for Real Player
Gold V2 on the CD-R, and when I try to run it, it looks as if it is unpacking data for a moment
but then an error message appears prompting me to download the file again because it is erroneous...
The same files work perfectly on my HD, of course.

I've also tried using a cd image as an intermediate step before burning, but to no avail.
I've also used Plextools to burn the same files, but the problem remains...
I've updated Nero, Plextools and the firmware of the recorder to the latest versions
(Nero 5.5.10, Plextools 1.18, firmware version 1.03), but still no change.

The cd analyser that comes with Plextools reports that the cds that were bundled with my recorder
are made by Mitsubishi (!?)

I've got the latest ASPI layer, and although the Adaptec installer doesn't work properly, I
installed it using a program which also applies a fix (I asked about ASPI in the thread "Aspi issues",
which can be found in the "Recording Hardware/Software" category of hydrogenaudio.org)

What's strange is that when I checked the CD for read-errors with Plextools, it found none. And Nero
always returns a "burning successful at 16x" message.

I'm getting desperate. I'll buy some Creation, SONY, or TDK CD-Rs tomorrow and hope it was a matter of
bad CD-Rs, but a whisper in my ghost tells me it isn't... I have bad karma as far as new hardware is
concerned I guess.

Quote

Install the latest drivers for your mobo.

What's a mobo?

New to burning

Reply #12 – 2003-01-02 22:04:32

mobo=motherboard

New to burning

Reply #13 – 2003-01-03 17:01:59

In case that I failed to clarify some details in my previous post,
the cds that I write are never burned, only the data is corrupted
and full of errors... I've yet to experience a buffer underrun.
And the CDs don't take hours to read, they read just like normal cds,
except for the buggy data, of course.

New to burning

Reply #14 – 2003-01-03 18:56:31

Quote

And the CDs don't take hours to read, they read just like normal cds,
except for the buggy data, of course.

Check pressed CD ROMs, or the same CDs, but burned by a friend of yours, in order to see if you can just read properly CD ROMs. This will set the mobo/IDE config question.

If you can read them, your burner might indeed be defective. The next test would be to try the burner in another computer.

New to burning

Reply #15 – 2003-01-03 23:25:30

I tried another brand of CD-Rs: Philips 80 min multispeed (1-48x), and attempted to record the same
data at 16x, but no improvement whatsoever.
I've given the recorder to a friend of mine with a P4 1.7 Ghz to try it out.
Hopefully that'll show whether my PC is the problem or the recorder.

Quote

Check pressed CD ROMs, or the same CDs, but burned by a friend of yours, in order to see if you can just read properly CD ROMs. This will set the mobo/IDE config question.

After burning, I check the CDs both in my recorder and in my other drive, a 52x Creative CD-ROM drive,
and the errors are the same, so I guess that it's not a matter of read error.

What mystifies me is that the recorder seems to able to read, record music cds, copy cds, and
erase CD-RW normally... Only when creating new data cds does it perform so poorly.

For the record, I have a 20 GB HDD on the primary master, my CD-ROM o the primary slave,
and the CD-Recorder on the secondary master. I thought I'd just mention it in case it matters.

New to burning

Reply #16 – 2003-01-04 02:19:55

Maybe, ahm...(wow this is so weird) try to defragment your HD? Don't know, maybe it'll help, all i can think of ..

New to burning

Reply #17 – 2003-01-04 03:03:07

I had a similar problem (after burning nero's verification failed) and found out that the reason was bad RAM. No RAM test tool I used showed any errors, but when burning CDs and even when copying files from HD to HD there were errors. With new RAM everything is fine. (BTW, it was 133 MHz SDRAM, but when setting the clock to 100 MHz it worked fine, too. Nothing had been overclocked.) Maybe changing your BIOS settings to something like fail-safe could help.

Before you know it is NOT bad RAM, DO NOT DEFRAGMENT YOUR HD. It will screw up your system. (Copying some 100 MBs of files and verifying could help for finding out.)

New to burning

Reply #18 – 2003-01-04 23:27:09

My friend tested the Plextor on his system and it worked just fine.
Nothing wrong about the recorder I guess... Now if I could only find
what I should do with my PC, to make the damn thing work.
I suppose it's high time I got me some more RAM anyway.

New to burning

Reply #19 – 2003-01-04 23:53:12

1. prolly dumb but, did you try to swap/patch the burner to the secondary ide chain? (as slave to the other cd-rom, my teac is working fine there, but i dont do onthefly copies.) edit: nm, i missed your ide info.

2. if it is a pio mode problem check (Case):
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....20&t=4230&st=25

edit:
3. if it is a VIA mobo expect problems with drivers (4in1 stuff).

New to burning

Reply #20 – 2003-01-05 01:41:54

smok3 what kind of a system have u got? (RAM?)

New to burning

Reply #21 – 2003-01-05 02:48:41

summary from summary :

Code: [Select]

  < Processor(s) >
    Model:                                Intel(R) Pentium(R) III
    Speed:                                798MHz
    Performance Rating:                   PR958 (estimated)
    L2 On-board Cache:                    256kB ECC synchronous ATC

  < Mainboard and BIOS >
    Bus(es):                              ISA AGP PCI USB SMBus/i2c 
    MP Support:                           No
    System BIOS:                          Award Software International, Inc. 6.00 PG
    Mainboard:                            TRANSCEND AVE3/B 694X-686B
    System Chipset:                       VIA Technologies Inc VT82C691/693A/694X Apollo Pro/133/
                                          133A System Controller
    Front Side Bus Speed:                 1x 133MHz (133MHz data rate)
    Installed Memory:                     384MB SDRAM
    Memory Bus Speed:                     1x 133MHz (133MHz data rate)

  < Video System >
    Monitor/Panel:                        Philips Brilliance 107P (107P2)
    Adapter:                              Matrox Marvel G450 eTV - English

  < Drives and Storage Devices >
    Floppy disk drive:                    Removable Drive
    IBM-DTLA-307015:                      Disk Drive
    IBM DMVS09V SCSI Disk Device:         Disk Drive
    PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD-105F:             CD-ROM/DVD
    TEAC CD-W58E:                         CD-ROM/DVD

edit: btw, was running xp on 128 megs for a while and burning was ok at max burning speed 8x without burnproof tech.

New to burning

Reply #22 – 2003-01-05 06:36:15

Quote

My friend tested the Plextor on his system and it worked just fine.
Nothing wrong about the recorder I guess... Now if I could only find
what I should do with my PC, to make the damn thing work.
I suppose it's high time I got me some more RAM anyway.

just out of curiousity:

- did you close all applications in the background, including all the useless crap running in system tray?
- did you try to burn a data CD at slower speeds, like 2x or 4x?
- did you try to copy a music CD image (the CD has to be in very good condition btw), and burn a copy at, say, 2x? use only high quality media for this, like taiyo yuden
- did you try defragmenting your hard disk?

>>>'DO NOT DEFRAGMENT YOUR HD. It will screw up your system.'<<<

ugh, why not? in many cases of CD burning problems, this is precisely the fault. a lot of people, unfortunetaly, don't realize how important it is to defragment your hard disk often, especially if your are copying big files

New to burning

Reply #23 – 2003-01-05 10:11:27

just out of curiousity (continued):
* Do you have the latest DLL files from the Microsoft C++ Run-Time Files from Visual Basic 6.0 SP4, SP5 or higher, such as: mfc42.dll, msvcirt.dll, msvcp60.dll, msvcrt.dll, etc.
* Have you uninstalled Nero, rebooted, and then reinstalled it.
* Have you disabled power saving.
* Have you disabled screensavers.
* Did you scan for viruses, and then disable your antivirus software?

I know on my system that if the antivirus software is left running with real-time protection I'll end up with junk CD's.

New to burning

Reply #24 – 2003-01-05 11:11:30

Quote

- did you close all applications in the background, including all the useless crap running in system tray?

Yes, I did.

Quote

- did you try to burn a data CD at slower speeds, like 2x or 4x?

Well, no, cos I thought is was rediculous that I couldn't burn at 16x.

Quote

- did you try to copy a music CD image (the CD has to be in very good condition btw), and burn a copy at, say, 2x? use only high quality media for this, like taiyo yuden

Haven't tried that yet.

Quote

- did you try defragmenting your hard disk?

No, cos I formatted the stupid thing only a month ago.

Quote

Do you have the latest DLL files from the Microsoft C++ Run-Time Files from Visual Basic 6.0 SP4, SP5 or higher, such as: mfc42.dll, msvcirt.dll, msvcp60.dll, msvcrt.dll, etc.

I have Visual Studio 6, but I haven't downloaded any updates.

Quote

Have you uninstalled Nero, rebooted, and then reinstalled it.

I haven't done that either, but then again, I also tried Plextools and it did me no good.

Quote

Have you disabled power saving.

Don't think I have, I'll check.

Quote

Have you disabled screensavers.

I haven't disabled them, but burning doesn't take that long anyway, so no chance of screensaver
kicking in.

Quote

Did you scan for viruses, and then disable your antivirus software?

I scan for viruses regularly, and I've tried burning without the auto-protect feature activated
and it made no difference.

BTW smok3: did u have to find double-bank RAM for your motherboard?

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