Hi Pro-optThis post is only to ask your opinion about a couple of things I have been trying these days regarding Dolby surround. First one is AC3, I'm using Eright Software Super Encoder/decoder to transform my music files into AC3, getting that way Dolby Digital directly from spdif soundcard out. Super uses a ffmpeg library to process the music, there are some mentions of this Dolby encoding system in hydrogenaudio forums, they say it's not such a great thing, but to my ears this Dolby digital gives better sound than Dolby prologic. This Dolby Digital Spdif music bypasses completely all the controls in my X-Fi extreme music, I can change the volume only with the receiver.Second one is that redocnecxK program that supposedly encodes al your sounds into AC3 and sends them directly to the receiver through spdif. I says supposedly because it doesn't work with X-Fi sound cards.So my questions at the end are about the difference between hearing AC3 encoded music and music filtered through your Dolby plugin.Thanks anticipated,Rozzo
ATSuround Encode2 works, in volume, like coeficients 1/0.7071/0.8165/0.5774, but the rear channels seems phase shifted then can't be recovered exactly by Free Surround (good channel separation) or PowerDVD (and worse channel separation).With ATSurround Encode2 I don't know how disable LFE (don't be present in dpl II), and seems be amplified because there are big overflows.If ATSuround Encode2 put one option to disable the rear phase shift and other to disable the LFE in downmix become usable for me. I have a old audio equipment attached to the PC with only dpl decoder then to listen ac3 5.1 need a downmix to dpl and need ffdshow/ac3filter, can't with Foobar. I don't see any plugin with matrix style, like ffdshow/ac3filter, to make the downmix.Thanks.
Do you really need only an AC3 downmixer plugin (without phase shift)?In this case I could write one... should be a matter of minutes.
I like this component, and been using it for a week, as I think the 5.1 it produces gives me more feeling of "real" (do you call it the dynamic range?) comparing with ATSurround Processor (was using this before your component came out).I have a little request, can you post a version number in your first post when you update it? because it's quite annoying that I have to find the word "upload" in your post to check if it's updated.thank you
Quote from: pro_optimizer on 17 February, 2007, 06:25:05 AMDo you really need only an AC3 downmixer plugin (without phase shift)?In this case I could write one... should be a matter of minutes.Thanks.Can be used, not only for my strange case (play 5.1 with only dpl surround), but also to convert audio movie tracks from 5.1 to mp3 (or other stereo formats) with dpl II info.
Maybe you can post a few links to the programs?
- changed the gain to ~85% to avoid clipping in practically all cases.
Ok, I uploaded a plugin for this purpose. It uses you mixing matrix.I also experimented with hilbert filtering and got much better results than with Encode2, but its terribly slow (barely real time) so I have to switch over to fft convolution until I can release that.Unfortunately this is necessary if you want to downmix DTS tracks (they seem not to have shifted rear channels as opposed to AC3).
Hi Pro-opt, You can download Super at:http://www.erightsoft.net/SUPER.htm
I have a feature request could you make that optional?I don't like it when the sound goes down 1.5dB when I activate fSurround. I use advanced limiter to catch the eventual clipping.
Thanks for the news.Now with a wav6 -> foo_dsp_downmix (Downmix AC3/DTS) -> Free Surround (*) -> New_wav6(*) With this adjust:Center Image (1.0)Dimension (0.0)Invert rear phase (+0, +180)Mixing coef A: 0.866Mixing coef B: 0.5we obtain 100% identical channels with this considerations:1) The LFE channel can't be recovered by dpl II, if is included in downmix it appears at Center output channel. The downmix plugin need a selector to disable the LFE channel.2) The volume is 100 % identical with errors (and crosstalk) less than 0.02 % over the channel test sample. Real signals can produce overflows at downmix and maybe is convenient a slider between the full coeficients values 1/0.7071/0.866/0.5 an the normalized 0.3254/0.2301/0.2818/0.1627.3) In downmix there are a delay of 12.542 ms for L, R, and C channels. With SL and SR there are 25.083 ms delay. This delay between front and rear channels (25.083 - 12.542 = 12.541) can be a problem with real signals.4) In upmix (free surround) there are also a delay of 128.0 ms uniform for all channels. The new wav is 53 ms more than original, then the end is cut in 75 ms.This is only to show my interest in your job, but if you aren't interested in further develop I can understand. For me is enough the actual downmix to play 5.1; to convert 5.1 to dpl2 there are others methods (AviSynth, BeSweet) with 2 pass mode, really I don't know how implement this with Foobar.The most important is the upmix (Free Surround) because is the better free tool I know to do this. And with the Advanced Controls is perfect to experiment different settings. Only a last petition please, is possible four options for rear phase?:Keep rear phase (0, 0)Invert rear Right (0, 180) like PowerDVD movie modeInvert rear Left (180, 0) Azid-BeSweet styleInvert two rear (180,180) I don't now ... but to complete.Thanks.
This is only to show my interest in your job, but if you aren't interested in further develop I can understand. For me is enough the actual downmix to play 5.1; to convert 5.1 to dpl2 there are others methods (AviSynth, BeSweet) with 2 pass mode, really I don't know how implement this with Foobar.
Hi,I'm very intersted in this component.BTW, Can I decode my SQ quadraphonic records by using this?I'd like to convert it into ac3 or dts.Thanks.
1) Hmmm, I think the downmix will sound pretty dull with LFE disabled, don't you?
4) Hmmmmm... This not easy to solve. Unfortunately there is a tradeoff between delay and fidelity.The smaller you make the delay, the fewer separate frequency bands FS can use for steering. And this results in more crosstalk, steering glitches etc.
FL FR C SL SR ------ ------ ------ ------ ------FL' 1.0000 - - - -FR' - 1.0000 - - -C' - - 1.0000 - -SL' - - - 1.0000 0.0001SR' - - - 0.0001 1.0000
FL FR C SL SR ------ ------ ------ ------ ------FL' 0.9443 - - 0.0836 -FR' - 0.9443 - - 0.0836C' 0.0230 0.0261 0.9995 - -SL' 0.0004 - 0.0003 0.9329 0.0063SR' - 0.0004 0.0003 0.0063 0.9329
Using to downmix:Lt = FL + 0.7071*FC + 0.8165*SL - 0.5774*SRRt = FR + 0.7071*FC - 0.5774*SL + 0.8165*SRAnd your FS upmix with defaults and:- Center Image (1.0)- Simple and Not-Linear (Legacy)I obtain output channels identical in phase and amplitude than input channels, with very little crosstalk:Code: [Select] FL FR C SL SR ------ ------ ------ ------ ------FL' 1.0000 - - - -FR' - 1.0000 - - -C' - - 1.0000 - -SL' - - - 1.0000 0.0001SR' - - - 0.0001 1.0000But changing to:- Linear (Near Perfect)The phase is ok but volume and crosstalk:Code: [Select] FL FR C SL SR ------ ------ ------ ------ ------FL' 0.9443 - - 0.0836 -FR' - 0.9443 - - 0.0836C' 0.0230 0.0261 0.9995 - -SL' 0.0004 - 0.0003 0.9329 0.0063SR' - 0.0004 0.0003 0.0063 0.9329
I wonder whats happening ?WARNING : foo_dsp_fsurround: clipping encountered (-1.124)WARNING : foo_dsp_fsurround: clipping encountered (-1.111)WARNING : foo_dsp_fsurround: clipping encountered (1.071)WARNING : foo_dsp_fsurround: clipping encountered (-1.090)WARNING : foo_dsp_fsurround: clipping encountered (-1.071)WARNING : foo_dsp_fsurround: clipping encountered (-1.029)WARNING : foo_dsp_fsurround: clipping encountered (-1.043)If i take a look at foobars console i can see theese .my spec Athlon 1.7ghz, winxp PR/ 766mb ddr/creative audigySE/ got stereo amp for front speakers, and other set from pc speakers for rear surround/ sound card is set for 4.0 speakers/ realy feals when you set from 5.1 that sub and center speaker goes to front speakerswhat actualy goes frong when clipping ? because i cannot hear any strange things on my speakersdsp's ar set : Vlevel> noisesharpening>freesurround
Glad to see all the quick improvements in this DSP.I know my PC is not very up to date in CPU power but, have you checked the CPU usage of FreeSurround? Here it sucks 25% at a constant rate. It's far, far more than the power consumed by the math-intensive Dolby Headphone engine.
Yes, the crosstalk in the corner cases could be lower.I think the worst part is that the surrounds leak a bit into the front channels - probably I can further improve this.
thats what i thougt what is recomended setings to get most surrounded sound from mp3's ?
I had a question about your plugin. When I try to add a center image it seems alot of the sounds leave the front left and right channel. Is there anyway to get the center speaker on without losing sound from the left and right speaker. How does the center image setting work? Right now I have the center image off. Also I love how your plugin works. How it sounds like normal when theres no surround. It works perfect for this dsp I use. I use the winamp dsp bridge plugin and use the srswow winamp plugin and then your plugin and it sounds great.If you heard of SRS WoW here is a link:srslabs.com and click on technology.
Please excuse the delay (I was very busy),When you want to pan sounds between left front and right front, you can theoretically use a wall of 20 speakers next to each other: Whenever a sound source is close to the position of a speaker X, that speaker is responsible for playing it back. When it is somewhere between 2 of those 20 speakers, both will play it, usually with different volumes.You can approximate that effect with just 2 speakers but especially the center sources will sound more "fake", because your brain knows the difference between real center and left+right front. With center image you can morph between a 2 speakers and a 3 speakers wall.Since music is optimized to sound good in the 2 front speakers setting, it may sound worse with 3 speakers. Apart from that, I would not use it if your center speaker is weaker than the left/right speakers.I've heard of SRS WoW but I didn't try it yet (it seems to be tailored towards TV sets rather than surround systems).I'd be careful with SRS 3d, since it might destroy the surround information (have you tried channeltest.mp3?).