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Topic: Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent? (Read 6983 times) previous topic - next topic
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Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

It seems far too common to me that some random person registers with a first post that violates TOS8, then a flood of flames or near-flames ensue. To me, the fact that these people are talked down isn't a sign that the community is functioning properly. It's a sign that people don't understand what's expected of them when they post, and of much ego stroking and productivity decline on all sides.

Can we do some more things to make sure people get this straight? Like, spending more page space to explaining this during registration, or using a basic reading comprehension test during registration to make sure people actually read the important parts of TOS?

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #1
IMO anyone registering is expected to have read the TOSes. I don't think that TOS #8 should be specifically made more prominent; but I do think that all TOSes should be made prominent.

As it is now, there is no special stress on "... new members-to-be must read all the TOSes before registering ..."

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #2
It does seem like an EXCELLENT idea to more strongly reinforce the the entire TOS (especially number 8) during registration.  I have to admit that I didn't give it enough thought when I registered, and I was taught about it hard (flaming/insulting) way.  I also think that if someone makes a post violating the TOS, they should be reported and the post removed ASAP, so no giant flame wars ensue and waste space for those who actually want to learn something.

Thank you for bringing this up; I would REALLY appreciate a change like this as well.
CD -> EAC+LAME V4+WV hybrid 320. Remote hard backup of every CD.

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #3
[quote author=HE-Dave link=msg=466910 date=1169695267]I also think that if someone makes a post violating the TOS, they should be reported and the post removed ASAP, so no giant flame wars ensue and waste space for those who actually want to learn something.[/quote]

This is already part of the TOS, have a look at this addendum. In my eyes posts that violate the TOS in any form are spam, hence members are expected to act as TOS #14 says.

Edit: do --> act

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #4
I'm pretty sure, 99% people registering anywhere, don't read the stuff they have to agree to be able to join. I'm not sure, you can force people to read something. They'll just skip through it, looking for the checkbox and Next button.

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #5
TOS#8 is one of the key, if not THE key, differentiators of HA from other audio forums.  It couldn't hurt to bang newbies over the head with it before they're allowed to post.

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #6
Maybe what we need is a change of attitute. In a forum as technical as this one I think it is quite normal that people have difficulty grasping the extent of TOS#8 (and others).
For myself, I lurked for one year here before registering because I felt my knowledge was not on pair with some of the people that posted here. Of course I like to see me as an exception. Most people won`t do this. 
Though it is hard and boring we, as a community, should make our best to "educate" those which are not familiar with the concepts vented here.
Gosh, I look like a 16 something communist  no offense to the communists, of course...

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #7
I'm pretty sure, 99% people registering anywhere, don't read the stuff they have to agree to be able to join. I'm not sure, you can force people to read something. They'll just skip through it, looking for the checkbox and Next button.


I guess that's because most Forum's TOS'es boil down to something like "Be nice to each other, don't flame, troll, or otherwise behave like an idiot, use the search before asking.", and maybe the consequences of doing so. So after reading essentially the same stuff when registering for different forums you can get bored with it and just click away.

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #8
Quote
I guess that's because most Forum's TOS'es boil down to something like "Be nice to each other, don't flame, troll, or otherwise behave like an idiot, use the search before asking."

Some users register without even having assumed this. How many times do we have people coming on here saying "I have searched" or "I can't find anything about this", while the first search result on HA or Google usually has all they need to know?

Still, I know who I'd choose out of them and the brainwashed new users talking about incredible CD chips, "magic pebbles", differences between PCM, WAV and AIFF and the like!

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #9
Arguing with people on the actual flaws in their argument is a lot more civil and productive than whacking them over the head with TOS8. I think there's a lot of that going around - and honestly, it's mostly coming from people who have not been here very long. The veterans (and I will call 2BDecided out specifically) seem to do a very, very good debate before throwing TOS8 around.

My point here is that these TOS8-worthy posts are noise. They're chaff. Just like spam and flames and duplicate posts, they dilute the value of the board. Therefore, we should try to mitigate their existence. A lot of other audiophile boards have noticed the same thing, but they have reacted to it by banning DBT debates altogether. I think that's incredibly boneheaded and ignorant - the debate must still play out - but audiophiles who stumble upon here shouldn't feel like they're walking onto a minefield when they come here. They should know exactly what they're getting into.

Also, while some people are in fact affected and convinced by the arguments in these threads, the vast majority of people aren't, and to them, the debates are mainly enlightening because of their lurid and trainwreck-like character.

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #10
You speak of "arguing" with these users, but also make the point that these threads create a lot of noise.

I think this is where the problem lies.

Often these threads are prominent on the forum for their lifetime, and often it is just many users saying the same thing in response.  It is great if someone with an excellent understanding and temperament, like 2BDecided, tackle these new members, but often it is members with an incomplete understanding themselves, quick to shoot someone down.

I would also say that often the new member is stuck in their ways, and the thread resolves nothing.

The pros of slapping them with TOS #8 immediately is that the noise is reduced.  However, I agree that we (as a community, I know nothing!) should be educating people where we can.

If only we could restrict input to such threads to long-time members who could respond accurately and concisely, and know when to give up the chase...
 
All that said, I don't remember seeing many TOS #8 violations recently, although maybe I just don't go to the right threads.
I'm on a horse.

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #11
I had a close call with TOS 8 on my first post here as it included references of a subjective nature on DVD-A. 2Bdecided, and several others, would also have sailed close to this in order to get across their learned opinion on a topic that had admittedly digressed from the subject title.

I learned a lot from this post and feel that the excellent comments and debate that followed would never had been aired if TOS 8 had been enforced. This would have been a shame and a loss to HA, so fair play to those who let it ride against the wishes of others who wanted it closed.

Moderated moderation won the day.

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #12
My point here is that these TOS8-worthy posts are noise. They're chaff. Just like spam and flames and duplicate posts, they dilute the value of the board. Therefore, we should try to mitigate their existence. A lot of other audiophile boards have noticed the same thing, but they have reacted to it by banning DBT debates altogether. I think that's incredibly boneheaded and ignorant - the debate must still play out - but audiophiles who stumble upon here shouldn't feel like they're walking onto a minefield when they come here. They should know exactly what they're getting into.


What's boneheaded is to reinvent the wheel.  Better to simply have a repository of  posts about the usual talking points, like the talk.origins faq for arguments pro evolution, where we can point 'audiophiles' who violate TOS#8

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #13
Often these threads are prominent on the forum for their lifetime, and often it is just many users saying the same thing in response.  It is great if someone with an excellent understanding and temperament, like 2BDecided, tackle these new members, but often it is members with an incomplete understanding themselves, quick to shoot someone down.

I would also say that often the new member is stuck in their ways, and the thread resolves nothing.

The pros of slapping them with TOS #8 immediately is that the noise is reduced.  However, I agree that we (as a community, I know nothing!) should be educating people where we can.

Absoloutely.

Regular members threatening people with a ban only achieves to get people's back up. All too often we see people mentioning TOS #8 without taking the time to point them towards Pio's excellent ABX FAQ or showing them where or what ABX tools are.

I don't go about my everyday life telling people how they're breaking the law. I leave that to the police.
daefeatures.co.uk

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #14
Perhaps a short TOS quiz as part of the registration process?  That's how my company ensures that staff have read and understood the yearly-updated ethics guidelines.

-brendan

Can TOS8 *please* be made more prominent?

Reply #15
I see HA uses Invision, not phpbb, so this link isn't directly helpful, but I'll post it anyway.  There are add-ons for phpbb, such as this one, that allow you to add randomized confirmation questions to the registration process.  Perhaps there's such functionality for Invision as well?

http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=383305

-brendan

 
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