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Topic: 80 kbps LC AAC listening test (Read 55771 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • muaddib
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #25
Doing very many ABX tests between them (assuming you hear a difference), better allows you to "rate" them.  Without such attention to detail, the test becomes less meaningfull, at least in my opinion.
...
If I did not do many ABX tests to first prepare myself to get accustomed to what I should be hearing, I could simply say 5/5 and move on.  When people don't give a full effort, and just listen a couple times then determine "It is transparent", that severely waters down the results from people like me who actually did everything in their power to not only hear the difference, but rate it as honestly as they can.

Your metodology for participating in listening test is meaningful and it would be really nice to have some test with people that are doing just like you described. But how many people would do that? IMO not many even if you pay them.
In public listening test many people don't give as much effort as you. But this does not "water down" your results. Public listening test produce average scores (that is average scores among people interested in doing test which should extrapolate to whole population that listens music). Most people don't hear differences without full effort, but their grades also count.
Also have in mind that in another time in another place in different circuimstances, you wouldn't give exactly the same grades  People are just not accurate enough.
In short: if you are deciding between 4.6 or 4.7, just give any of those.

  • menno
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #26
Again thanks to all who have participated. Unfortunately we still don't have enough results at the moment. We will let the test run a little longer, until 29th of january for now.
Without your help it is not possible to determine if we should enable PNS and/or IS or not.
  • Last Edit: 15 January, 2007, 07:33:37 AM by menno

  • starcy
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #27
Why not just user can decide this?

  • Ivan Dimkovic
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #28
Because we want to avoid flood of suboptimal encodings (e.g. 192 kbps, PNS and IS ON) 

If we put PNS and IS in the encoder, they will either be off by default, or there will be a switch to easily disable them because one very widespread portable player (Apple iPod) appears not to support them well.

  • dand
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #29
...because one very widespread portable player (Apple iPod) appears not to support them well.

This is so hard to believe... Can't they (Apple) just fix this and issue a firmware update...

  • IgorC
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #30

...because one very widespread portable player (Apple iPod) appears not to support them well.

This is so hard to believe... Can't they (Apple) just fix this and issue a firmware update...

Considering that Apple always goes to very easy and low complexity codecs like ASP without  Qpel, GMC, trellis and H.264 only up to not full Main Profile it's not surprise if they doesn't support IS and PNS.  Don't talk about SBR.
  • Last Edit: 16 January, 2007, 04:54:30 PM by IgorC

  • Garf
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #31


...because one very widespread portable player (Apple iPod) appears not to support them well.

This is so hard to believe... Can't they (Apple) just fix this and issue a firmware update...

Considering that Apple always goes to very easy and low complexity codecs like ASP without  Qpel, GMC, trellis and H.264 only up to not full Main Profile it's not surprise if they doesn't support IS and PNS.  Don't talk about SBR.


Well, this is different. An AAC codec without IS is just broken, period.

And you can't call it "MP4" without PNS, either.

This isn't about some optional extensions, those tools are REQUIRED even in the low-complexity profile.
  • Last Edit: 16 January, 2007, 05:36:43 PM by Garf

  • dand
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #32


...because one very widespread portable player (Apple iPod) appears not to support them well.

This is so hard to believe... Can't they (Apple) just fix this and issue a firmware update...

Considering that Apple always goes to very easy and low complexity codecs like ASP without  Qpel, GMC, trellis and H.264 only up to not full Main Profile it's not surprise if they doesn't support IS and PNS.  Don't talk about SBR.


Well, this is different. An AAC codec without IS is just broken, period.

And you can't call it "MP4" without PNS, either.

This isn't about some optional extensions, those tools are REQUIRED even in the low-complexity profile.


We should be looking at encoder and decoder separately here. Not supporting a feature in ENcoder is completely different than doing the same in DEcoder (i.e. failing to build a standard-conformant DEcoder).

  • Garf
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #33

Well, this is different. An AAC codec without IS is just broken, period.

And you can't call it "MP4" without PNS, either.

This isn't about some optional extensions, those tools are REQUIRED even in the low-complexity profile.


We should be looking at encoder and decoder separately here. Not supporting a feature in ENcoder is completely different than doing the same in DEcoder (i.e. failing to build a standard-conformant DEcoder).


IS and PNS (in MPEG-4) are REQUIRED in the DEcoder.

The iPod is not a standard-conformant decoder.

  • menno
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #34
I think IS does work, just the PNS gave troubles

  • menno
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #35
It would be great if we could get some more results for samples 4,5,7,9,10,11 and 13

  • sketchy_c
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #36
I should have read that last post before testing tonight. 
  • Last Edit: 28 January, 2007, 05:20:34 PM by sketchy_c

  • menno
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #37
Since we still don't have enough results, we will simply let the test run until we do have enough (we do need an answer). I will let you know when we have enough results and from that moment people who are still doing the test will get a week to finish it.
Thanks again to everyone who already participated.

80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #38
Cool.. now I just have to stop forgetting this test is going on
Vorbis-q0-lowpass99
lame3.93.1-q5-V9-k-nspsytune

  • menno
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #39
Cool.. now I just have to stop forgetting this test is going on


bump

  • IgorC
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #40
German speech sample N5  was very low scored in 48 kbps test. While in this test it's transparent for me almost for all encode modes. Of course, 80 is a higer bitrate but, for example, LAME -V5 and Vorbis at 80 also have some problems with this sample.
Good work.
  • Last Edit: 06 February, 2007, 01:43:55 PM by IgorC

80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #41
I got through samples 14-8 before I started to lose my mind  (yes I'm going backwards)
I think I started hearing things that weren't even there  time for a little break.
Vorbis-q0-lowpass99
lame3.93.1-q5-V9-k-nspsytune

  • Diow
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #42
I'm save my results in .erf but don't save them in .abc now I can't open them [the .erf] how can I open these .erf?
Sorry for my bad english.

  • Firon
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #43
You can't open them. THey're encrypted result files that you need to send to menno.

  • Diow
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #44
You can't open them. THey're encrypted result files that you need to send to menno.

Thanks, indeed I Know about this the problem that's I don't save the sessions (I save but delete without want but made this)...
Sorry for my bad english.

  • sketchy_c
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #45
Menno, is this still ongoing?  Not sure if the 1.0.7.0 release was dependent on these results.

  • menno
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #46
Yes, test is still going on. We are very thankful for everyone submitting their test results. The results of this test will be used for our next release.

  • Jerethi
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #47
Currently working my way through the samples.  Completed 4 samples so far.

  • Diow
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #48
Is the test now ended or still running?
Sorry for my bad english.

  • Jerethi
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80 kbps LC AAC listening test
Reply #49
Is the test now ended or still running?


My understanding is that it is open until enough people submit their results.