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Topic: PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output (Read 33843 times) previous topic - next topic
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PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Does anyone know of a manufacturer of a PCI sound card that has a DAC with an analog stereo output[RCA] that would sound better using just itunes and AIFF uncompressed format, then the on-board spdif digital coax that I have been using?

I play it thru a reasonably high end audio system made up of:

Theil speakers
Levenson/Proceed power amp
Lexicon MC8 balanced surround sound processor/preamp
main audio source is a new Dell coreII duo pc  playing itunes off the hardrive
balanced XLR interconnects

I'm wondering if I can achieve better quality 2 channel sound by doing the D/A conversion on the soundcard and by-passing the processing of the lexicon. and just using the analog preamp in the lexicon??????

I am willing to spend up to $ 1,300.00 on the PCI soundcard. The cards that I have already seen with my google searches are geared for music creation and have A/D converters and microphone and midi inputs. I will not be doing any recording.

I'm open to any and all suggestions

thanks
john

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #1 –
Quote from: John Matusiak on
Does anyone know of a manufacturer of a PCI sound card that has a DAC with an analog stereo output[RCA] that would sound better using just itunes and AIFF uncompressed format, then the on-board spdif digital coax that I have been using?


On-board spdif digital coax is theoretically perfect already.

However, this sound card is exactly what you're asking for, and an absolutely excellent card.

http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxl22.html

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #2 –
Not familar with that setup, but I would tend to favor digital output to a dedicated unit over analog.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #3 –
I'm happy to be corrected here - but a major problem with any analog output on a PC/Mac is that the system bus inside the computer is inherently 'noisy'.

A good card will try to get around this problem with circuitry, sure, but it won't be able to alleviate it entirely.  The hard-drives, fans and god-knows what else all draw off the same PSU and have a common-earth.

The best solution would be to use onboard spdif coax and feed it in to a quality, external, power-isolated stand-alone DAC.

A good DAC is a good DAC, whether it be a stand-alone box, in an amplifier or on a sound-card - but inside your PC is probably the last place you'd want it to be.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #4 –
Quote from: omfg_wtf on
I'm happy to be corrected here - but a major problem with any analog output on a PC/Mac is that the system bus inside the computer is inherently 'noisy'.

A good card will try to get around this problem with circuitry, sure, but it won't be able to alleviate it entirely.  The hard-drives, fans and god-knows what else all draw off the same PSU and have a common-earth.


Designing a sound card to overcome the noisy environment inside a PC is certainly not trivial, but at his price range, it's not a problem. The 116dB of signal to noise ratio claimed in the LynxTWO specs is no exaggeration. Even the $250 M Audio Delta 1010LT (and that's $250 for 8 inputs, 8 outputs) has close to 96dB of SNR.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #5 –
I highly doubt that there is a greater quality to be had than M-Audio Audiophile 2496 (or equivalent card from other vendors), others just seem to have more features (none of which are important for playback)
The Plan Within Plans

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #6 –
Quote from: lexor on
I highly doubt that there is a greater quality to be had than M-Audio Audiophile 2496 (or equivalent card from other vendors), others just seem to have more features (none of which are important for playback)


The EMU 1820m knocks my friends 2469 on it's ass (we had no problem blind testing, 1820m M-Audio Audiophile and 2469).  Genuinely, I believe that a 1820m will provide you with the best possible output from a computer based system.  It has individual crystals to sync the clock to 44.1, 48, 96 and 192.  However it cannot resample audio at all, so if you need something other than these rates you will need to software resample.  A nice bonus is that it contains the exact same DAC as the Pro Tools 192HD unit which still runs at around $12,000.

Just ignore the two mic pres and midi interface.  It has 3 stereo ins and outs, including a phono stage

Over all I have been disappointed with the M-Audio line of equipment.  They try to market themselves as a semi-pro manufacturer, sadly I've never found any of their gear to be of even reasonable quality (considering price of course).

Edit; since we were discussing SNR, the 1820m has SNR (A-weighted): 120dB.  Now I am starting to sound a little too much like a sales rep so I'll stop now :-)  Just let it be known that EMU has made me a very happy customer.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #7 –
Quote from: omfg_wtf on
I'm happy to be corrected here - but a major problem with any analog output on a PC/Mac is that the system bus inside the computer is inherently 'noisy'.


I think you mean power supply.  Hopefully theres a couple gigaohms between the bus and output!

Quote from: omfg_wtf on
A good card will try to get around this problem with circuitry, sure, but it won't be able to alleviate it entirely.  The hard-drives, fans and god-knows what else all draw off the same PSU and have a common-earth.


Its actually pretty easy.  I've built filters for intruments running off  PC supplies before.  For signals stuff where you're not pulling any real current, you just need a cap or two.  Since all those other noisy devices are generally in the ultrasonic frequency range (80-100KHz+), theres not all that much noise energy below 20kHz, and whats there can be filtered.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Funkstar De Luxe on
The EMU 1820m knocks my friends 2469 on it's ass (we had no problem blind testing, 1820m M-Audio Audiophile and 2469).  Genuinely, I believe that a 1820m will provide you with the best possible output from a computer based system.  It has individual crystals to sync the clock to 44.1, 48, 96 and 192.  However it cannot resample audio at all, so if you need something other than these rates you will need to software resample.  A nice bonus is that it contains the exact same DAC as the Pro Tools 192HD unit which still runs at around $12,000.

Just ignore the two mic pres and midi interface.  It has 3 stereo ins and outs, including a phono stage

Over all I have been disappointed with the M-Audio line of equipment.  They try to market themselves as a semi-pro manufacturer, sadly I've never found any of their gear to be of even reasonable quality (considering price of course).

Edit; since we were discussing SNR, the 1820m has SNR (A-weighted): 120dB.  Now I am starting to sound a little too much like a sales rep so I'll stop now :-)  Just let it be known that EMU has made me a very happy customer.

The 1212m has the same dacs and opamps as the 1820m so unless you need the extra inputs and outputs on the 1820m I would go with the 1212m. They are both very good.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #9 –
Quote from: blinded_with_science on
Quote from: John Matusiak on

Does anyone know of a manufacturer of a PCI sound card that has a DAC with an analog stereo output[RCA] that would sound better using just itunes and AIFF uncompressed format, then the on-board spdif digital coax that I have been using?


On-board spdif digital coax is theoretically perfect already.

However, this sound card is exactly what you're asking for, and an absolutely excellent card.

http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxl22.html

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #10 –
Quote from: John Matusiak on
Quote from: blinded_with_science on

Quote from: John Matusiak on

Does anyone know of a manufacturer of a PCI sound card that has a DAC with an analog stereo output[RCA] that would sound better using just itunes and AIFF uncompressed format, then the on-board spdif digital coax that I have been using?


On-board spdif digital coax is theoretically perfect already.

However, this sound card is exactly what you're asking for, and an absolutely excellent card.

http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxl22.html


Thanks for your advice. I researched the Lynx site and I think that you may be right. I am going to call Lynx tomorrow and ask them some tech questions. Although, after researching the advice that I have been given on this forum by you and others, I am begginning to believe that I will not have better quality sound by using the analog output of any sound card, then using the spdif out and letting my surround sound processor do the D to A conversion.

As I had feared, most of the audio cards that have been recommended, have a strong leaning toward sound creation. And attention to A to D conversion.

I was hoping for a pci card that simply had the best Dacs on it. And that it could potentially sound better than my external dac. It has proven difficult to find this answer.

John

Quote from: CSMR on
Quote from: Funkstar De Luxe on

The EMU 1820m knocks my friends 2469 on it's ass (we had no problem blind testing, 1820m M-Audio Audiophile and 2469).  Genuinely, I believe that a 1820m will provide you with the best possible output from a computer based system.  It has individual crystals to sync the clock to 44.1, 48, 96 and 192.  However it cannot resample audio at all, so if you need something other than these rates you will need to software resample.  A nice bonus is that it contains the exact same DAC as the Pro Tools 192HD unit which still runs at around $12,000.

Just ignore the two mic pres and midi interface.  It has 3 stereo ins and outs, including a phono stage

Over all I have been disappointed with the M-Audio line of equipment.  They try to market themselves as a semi-pro manufacturer, sadly I've never found any of their gear to be of even reasonable quality (considering price of course).

Edit; since we were discussing SNR, the 1820m has SNR (A-weighted): 120dB.  Now I am starting to sound a little too much like a sales rep so I'll stop now :-)  Just let it be known that EMU has made me a very happy customer.

The 1212m has the same dacs and opamps as the 1820m so unless you need the extra inputs and outputs on the 1820m I would go with the 1212m. They are both very good.


I agree. the 1820m is over the top for just playback for itunes.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #11 –
Pro soundcards have some extra stuff than external dacs but end up being much better value than consumer external dacs despite this.

You also tend to get balanced output which would suit your system.

I don't quite understand your setup. What does the processor do? Are you running a multichannel system?

Even if you end up using digital output you won't want to be using onboard sound. With a professional sound card you can set the clock rate and have a dedicated audio channel (which will be bit perfect).

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #12 –
Quote from: John Matusiak on
Thanks for your advice. I researched the Lynx site and I think that you may be right. I am going to call Lynx tomorrow and ask them some tech questions. Although, after researching the advice that I have been given on this forum by you and others, I am begginning to believe that I will not have better quality sound by using the analog output of any sound card, then using the spdif out and letting my surround sound processor do the D to A conversion.


Correct, assuming that the spdif out really is okay. It depends entirely on what your sound card (motherboard) does to the signal before it actually reaches the spdif out.

For example, it's entirely possible for a sound card to convert the 44100hz samples you're playing to 48000hz with an exceptionally lousy samplerate converter, and then output it through spdif at 48000hz. It would sound absolutely horrendous, even though it's a 100% digital path.

A pro sound card, more than anything, gives you control. Clock rates, sample rate conversion, clock sources, levels etc - the Lynx Mixer is a very powerful tool.



Quote from: John Matusiak on
As I had feared, most of the audio cards that have been recommended, have a strong leaning toward sound creation. And attention to A to D conversion.

I was hoping for a pci card that simply had the best Dacs on it. And that it could potentially sound better than my external dac. It has proven difficult to find this answer.


I would say the Lynx cards have paid equal attention to A/D and D/A. Both sections are excellent, and I don't believe there's any good reason to believe you would have better quality with $1000 D/A only, than you would with $1000 D/A and A/D. Both sections are good enough to be considered transparent, and I believe the rest of your system is as well. If you're still not happy with the sound, the next place I would look is source material.

Modern CD recording practices are absolutely atrocious, and nowhere near hifi. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war . If a certain album doesn't sound good, it probably isn't. In my humble opinion the 1970s and 80s were the hifi era, and it went downhill from there. (I was born in 1978 so it's not a matter of being conservative). What kind of music do you usually listen to?

Also, EQ is your friend. While it certainly makes sense to start with a system with flat frequency response, EQing for effect (sweetening the sound with bass boost / treble boost etc) is not a bad thing at all, and all about preference.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #13 –
Quote from: blinded_with_science on
Quote from: John Matusiak on

Thanks for your advice. I researched the Lynx site and I think that you may be right. I am going to call Lynx tomorrow and ask them some tech questions. Although, after researching the advice that I have been given on this forum by you and others, I am begginning to believe that I will not have better quality sound by using the analog output of any sound card, then using the spdif out and letting my surround sound processor do the D to A conversion.


Correct, assuming that the spdif out really is okay. It depends entirely on what your sound card (motherboard) does to the signal before it actually reaches the spdif out.

For example, it's entirely possible for a sound card to convert the 44100hz samples you're playing to 48000hz with an exceptionally lousy samplerate converter, and then output it through spdif at 48000hz. It would sound absolutely horrendous, even though it's a 100% digital path.

A pro sound card, more than anything, gives you control. Clock rates, sample rate conversion, clock sources, levels etc - the Lynx Mixer is a very powerful tool.



Quote from: John Matusiak on
As I had feared, most of the audio cards that have been recommended, have a strong leaning toward sound creation. And attention to A to D conversion.

I was hoping for a pci card that simply had the best Dacs on it. And that it could potentially sound better than my external dac. It has proven difficult to find this answer.


I would say the Lynx cards have paid equal attention to A/D and D/A. Both sections are excellent, and I don't believe there's any good reason to believe you would have better quality with $1000 D/A only, than you would with $1000 D/A and A/D. Both sections are good enough to be considered transparent, and I believe the rest of your system is as well. If you're still not happy with the sound, the next place I would look is source material.

Modern CD recording practices are absolutely atrocious, and nowhere near hifi. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war . If a certain album doesn't sound good, it probably isn't. In my humble opinion the 1970s and 80s were the hifi era, and it went downhill from there. (I was born in 1978 so it's not a matter of being conservative). What kind of music do you usually listen to?

Also, EQ is your friend. While it certainly makes sense to start with a system with flat frequency response, EQing for effect (sweetening the sound with bass boost / treble boost etc) is not a bad thing at all, and all about preference.


Another option is an outboard USB DAC. There are many high-end versions, but one moderate cost but well reviewed source is the Stereo-Link DAC. See info at
http://www.stereo-link.com

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Funkstar De Luxe on
The EMU 1820m knocks my friends 2469 on it's ass (we had no problem blind testing, 1820m M-Audio Audiophile and 2469).

What kind of audible differences did you find?

Edit: Also, did you perform a proper blind test? (you know, 0.1 dB level matching, time aligning, double-blind or at least reliable single-blind...)

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Funkstar De Luxe on
The EMU 1820m knocks my friends 2469 on it's ass (we had no problem blind testing, 1820m M-Audio Audiophile and 2469).  Genuinely, I believe that a 1820m will provide you with the best possible output from a computer based system.  It has individual crystals to sync the clock to 44.1, 48, 96 and 192.  However it cannot resample audio at all, so if you need something other than these rates you will need to software resample.  A nice bonus is that it contains the exact same DAC as the Pro Tools 192HD unit which still runs at around $12,000.

Considering the frequency response and SNR of the 2496 I find this hard to beleive.

There are some files in this thread recorded via loopback with the 2496. Can you abx those against the original with your soundcard? As KikeG has stated, you should level match these, this can be done by enabling replaygain for your ABX test.
daefeatures.co.uk

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #17 –
Well, when testing two different pieces of audio hardware, the level-matching must be performed by measurement of the actual output of the devices in operation, or at the output of the amp employed. The easiest and most realiable way of doing this is playing for a example a 1 KHz sinewave at -3 dB at the same level the listening is going to take place, and use a voltmeter to measure the actual voltage between signal and ground, on both channels. The measurement must be done in parallel with the setup, with the devices connected to the amp and playing. The level difference between both devices must not exceed 0.1 dB, or what is the same, 1.011579 times. (Edit: if the voltages are too high to obtain a reading with good precision, you can play a softer tone, say -30 dB)

V dif in dB = 20 * log10 (VA/VB)

Where VA and VB are the voltages measured of each device.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #18 –
Since Funkstar De Luxe claims that EMU 1820m knocks the socks off the 2496 would it be valid for him to run the test using my samples on his EMU1820m? I've recorded them in loopback mode so any colouration the 2496 adds is already there.
daefeatures.co.uk

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #19 –
Yes, but the original and loopbacked samples must be, again, properly level matched and time-aligned.(Edit: in this case replaygaining would probably work, for time aligning maybe you could use the java ABC/HR tool, also for level matching)

I have a unprocessed/loopbacked sample pair that fulfills these requirements, I mean, is already level matched and time aligned. The looped sample was played and recorded not one but 3 times through my Audiophile 2496. AFAIK nobody has been able to ABX them.

Original: http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/stest/wick_4.ape
loopbacked: http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/stest/wick_2.ape

Test setup at http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/stest

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #20 –
[quote name='garym' post='434603' date='Sep 24 2006, 15:06']
[quote name='blinded_with_science' post='434582' date='Sep 24 2006, 13:58']
[quote name='John Matusiak' post='434525' date='Sep 24 2006, 09:06']
Thanks for your advice. I researched the Lynx site and I think that you may be right. I am going to call Lynx tomorrow and ask them some tech questions. Although, after researching the advice that I have been given on this forum by you and others, I am begginning to believe that I will not have better quality sound by using the analog output of any sound card, then using the spdif out and letting my surround sound processor do the D to A conversion.
[/quote]

Correct, assuming that the spdif out really is okay. It depends entirely on what your sound card (motherboard) does to the signal before it actually reaches the spdif out.

For example, it's entirely possible for a sound card to convert the 44100hz samples you're playing to 48000hz with an exceptionally lousy samplerate converter, and then output it through spdif at 48000hz. It would sound absolutely horrendous, even though it's a 100% digital path.

A pro sound card, more than anything, gives you control. Clock rates, sample rate conversion, clock sources, levels etc - the Lynx Mixer is a very powerful tool.


I agree completely. In fact, that is exactly what is happenning in my current older pc. That is why I am buying this new dell and buying a seperate pci soundacrd....  I received in the mail today a Creative soundblaster X-Fi Platinum pci card. Although I don't think that I am going to open it. As it may make it easier to return it. I spoke with Lynx for awhile today and unfortunely the guy wasn't an engineer, but he bought up alot of the same issues the you aforementioned.
The X-Fi was $200. and the Lynx L22 is $750.00 They put me in contact with a local dealer in boulder and they are seeing if a demo pci card for me to listen to can be arranged.
I just want to make sure before I spend the money , that it will sound better than what I already have. Whether i chose to use the spdif digital out or the analog out of the card. I just have a feeling that I probably won't be utilizing most of the features of what the L22 is capable of.






[quote name='John Matusiak' post='434525' date='Sep 24 2006, 09:06']
As I had feared, most of the audio cards that have been recommended, have a strong leaning toward sound creation. And attention to A to D conversion.

I was hoping for a pci card that simply had the best Dacs on it. And that it could potentially sound better than my external dac. It has proven difficult to find this answer.

[/quote]

I would say the Lynx cards have paid equal attention to A/D and D/A. Both sections are excellent, and I don't believe there's any good reason to believe you would have better quality with $1000 D/A only, than you would with $1000 D/A and A/D. Both sections are good enough to be considered transparent, and I believe the rest of your system is as well. If you're still not happy with the sound, the next place I would look is source material.

Modern CD recording practices are absolutely atrocious, and nowhere near hifi. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war . If a certain album doesn't sound good, it probably isn't. In my humble opinion the 1970s and 80s were the hifi era, and it went downhill from there. (I was born in 1978 so it's not a matter of being conservative). What kind of music do you usually listen to?

Also, EQ is your friend. While it certainly makes sense to start with a system with flat frequency response, EQing for effect (sweetening the sound with bass boost / treble boost etc) is not a bad thing at all, and all about preference.
[/quote]

Another option is an outboard USB DAC. There are many high-end versions, but one moderate cost but well reviewed source is the Stereo-Link DAC. See info at
http://www.stereo-link.com
[/quote]


[quote name='John Matusiak' post='435036' date='Sep 25 2006, 18:11']
[quote name='garym' post='434603' date='Sep 24 2006, 15:06']
[quote name='blinded_with_science' post='434582' date='Sep 24 2006, 13:58']
[quote name='John Matusiak' post='434525' date='Sep 24 2006, 09:06']
Thanks for your advice. I researched the Lynx site and I think that you may be right. I am going to call Lynx tomorrow and ask them some tech questions. Although, after researching the advice that I have been given on this forum by you and others, I am begginning to believe that I will not have better quality sound by using the analog output of any sound card, then using the spdif out and letting my surround sound processor do the D to A conversion.
[/quote]

Correct, assuming that the spdif out really is okay. It depends entirely on what your sound card (motherboard) does to the signal before it actually reaches the spdif out.

For example, it's entirely possible for a sound card to convert the 44100hz samples you're playing to 48000hz with an exceptionally lousy samplerate converter, and then output it through spdif at 48000hz. It would sound absolutely horrendous, even though it's a 100% digital path.

A pro sound card, more than anything, gives you control. Clock rates, sample rate conversion, clock sources, levels etc - the Lynx Mixer is a very powerful tool.


I agree completely. In fact, that is exactly what is happenning in my current older pc. That is why I am buying this new dell and buying a seperate pci soundacrd....  I received in the mail today a Creative soundblaster X-Fi Platinum pci card. Although I don't think that I am going to open it. As it may make it easier to return it. I spoke with Lynx for awhile today and unfortunely the guy wasn't an engineer, but he bought up alot of the same issues the you aforementioned.
The X-Fi was $200. and the Lynx L22 is $750.00 They put me in contact with a local dealer in boulder and they are seeing if a demo pci card for me to listen to can be arranged.
I just want to make sure before I spend the money , that it will sound better than what I already have. Whether i chose to use the spdif digital out or the analog out of the card. I just have a feeling that I probably won't be utilizing most of the features of what the L22 is capable of.






[quote name='John Matusiak' post='434525' date='Sep 24 2006, 09:06']
As I had feared, most of the audio cards that have been recommended, have a strong leaning toward sound creation. And attention to A to D conversion.

I was hoping for a pci card that simply had the best Dacs on it. And that it could potentially sound better than my external dac. It has proven difficult to find this answer.

[/quote]

I would say the Lynx cards have paid equal attention to A/D and D/A. Both sections are excellent, and I don't believe there's any good reason to believe you would have better quality with $1000 D/A only, than you would with $1000 D/A and A/D. Both sections are good enough to be considered transparent, and I believe the rest of your system is as well. If you're still not happy with the sound, the next place I would look is source material.

Modern CD recording practices are absolutely atrocious, and nowhere near hifi. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war . If a certain album doesn't sound good, it probably isn't. In my humble opinion the 1970s and 80s were the hifi era, and it went downhill from there. (I was born in 1978 so it's not a matter of being conservative). What kind of music do you usually listen to?

Also, EQ is your friend. While it certainly makes sense to start with a system with flat frequency response, EQing for effect (sweetening the sound with bass boost / treble boost etc) is not a bad thing at all, and all about preference.
[/quote]

Another option is an outboard USB DAC. There are many high-end versions, but one moderate cost but well reviewed source is the Stereo-Link DAC. See info at
http://www.stereo-link.com
[/quote]
[/quote]


[quote name='blinded_with_science' post='433957' date='Sep 22 2006, 21:30']
[quote name='John Matusiak' post='433944' date='Sep 22 2006, 17:25']
Does anyone know of a manufacturer of a PCI sound card that has a DAC with an analog stereo output[RCA] that would sound better using just itunes and AIFF uncompressed format, then the on-board spdif digital coax that I have been using?
[/quote]

On-board spdif digital coax is theoretically perfect already.

However, this sound card is exactly what you're asking for, and an absolutely excellent card.

http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxl22.html
[/quote]
I agree completely. In fact, that is exactly what is happenning in my current older pc. That is why I am buying this new dell and buying a seperate pci soundacrd.... I received in the mail today a Creative soundblaster X-Fi Platinum pci card. Although I don't think that I am going to open it. As it may make it easier to return it. I spoke with Lynx for awhile today and unfortunely the guy wasn't an engineer, but he bought up alot of the same issues the you aforementioned.
The X-Fi was $200. and the Lynx L22 is $750.00 They put me in contact with a local dealer in boulder and they are seeing if a demo pci card for me to listen to can be arranged.
I just want to make sure before I spend the money , that it will sound better than what I already have. Whether i chose to use the spdif digital out or the analog out of the card. I just have a feeling that I probably won't be utilizing most of the features of what the L22 is capable of.

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #21 –
Quote from: CSMR on
Pro soundcards have some extra stuff than external dacs but end up being much better value than consumer external dacs despite this.

You also tend to get balanced output which would suit your system.

I don't quite understand your setup. What does the processor do? Are you running a multichannel system?

Even if you end up using digital output you won't want to be using onboard sound. With a professional sound card you can set the clock rate and have a dedicated audio channel (which will be bit perfect).

I agree. I have little to no control over the sampling rates and so forth now. The whole point of this is to have more control over what is coming out of the pc and into the preamp. I am running a full high end home theatre with a surround sound processor but one of the dig spdif input is coming from my pc. I only listen to itunes thru that  input. And I have onboard sound on the motherboard of the pc. It does convert the 44khz 16bit AIFF file or aac mp4 file to 48Khz . I am simply looking for the best sounding "way" to get itunes to play the file and get the signal out of the pc , whether it is digital or analog, into my preamp.......

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #23 –
Quote from: blinded_with_science on
Quote from: John Matusiak on

Thanks for your advice. I researched the Lynx site and I think that you may be right. I am going to call Lynx tomorrow and ask them some tech questions. Although, after researching the advice that I have been given on this forum by you and others, I am begginning to believe that I will not have better quality sound by using the analog output of any sound card, then using the spdif out and letting my surround sound processor do the D to A conversion.


Correct, assuming that the spdif out really is okay. It depends entirely on what your sound card (motherboard) does to the signal before it actually reaches the spdif out.

For example, it's entirely possible for a sound card to convert the 44100hz samples you're playing to 48000hz with an exceptionally lousy samplerate converter, and then output it through spdif at 48000hz. It would sound absolutely horrendous, even though it's a 100% digital path.

A pro sound card, more than anything, gives you control. Clock rates, sample rate conversion, clock sources, levels etc - the Lynx Mixer is a very powerful tool.



Quote from: John Matusiak on
As I had feared, most of the audio cards that have been recommended, have a strong leaning toward sound creation. And attention to A to D conversion.

I was hoping for a pci card that simply had the best Dacs on it. And that it could potentially sound better than my external dac. It has proven difficult to find this answer.


I would say the Lynx cards have paid equal attention to A/D and D/A. Both sections are excellent, and I don't believe there's any good reason to believe you would have better quality with $1000 D/A only, than you would with $1000 D/A and A/D. Both sections are good enough to be considered transparent, and I believe the rest of your system is as well. If you're still not happy with the sound, the next place I would look is source material.

Modern CD recording practices are absolutely atrocious, and nowhere near hifi. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war . If a certain album doesn't sound good, it probably isn't. In my humble opinion the 1970s and 80s were the hifi era, and it went downhill from there. (I was born in 1978 so it's not a matter of being conservative). What kind of music do you usually listen to?

Also, EQ is your friend. While it certainly makes sense to start with a system with flat frequency response, EQing for effect (sweetening the sound with bass boost / treble boost etc) is not a bad thing at all, and all about preference.


Not a big fan of eqs. I will drive my self crazy with it .... I have 10K songs in my itunes. Most of what I listen is well recorded IE: Tracy Chapman, Keb Mo' , Matt Pond PA, mostly acoustic.


Quote from: CSMR on
Pro soundcards have some extra stuff than external dacs but end up being much better value than consumer external dacs despite this.

You also tend to get balanced output which would suit your system.

I don't quite understand your setup. What does the processor do? Are you running a multichannel system?

Even if you end up using digital output you won't want to be using onboard sound. With a professional sound card you can set the clock rate and have a dedicated audio channel (which will be bit perfect).


I agree...

PCI soundcard w audiophile Analog stereo output

Reply #24 –
Quote from: blinded_with_science on
Quote from: CSMR on

Quote from: blinded_with_science on

Modern CD recording practices are absolutely atrocious, and nowhere near hifi.

Depends on genre

Name an unaffected genre

Just about everything under the umbrella of "classical" music: chamber, orchestral, choral music. Modern recordings here are generally very good. They don't have the loveliness of analog recordings, but in terms of objective fidelity they are excellent.