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  • hit_ny
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #150
And it this gapless info passes the diskwriter test ?

ie..compared WAVs are identical
  • Last Edit: 14 September, 2006, 02:13:12 PM by hit_ny

  • Maurits
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #151
It will not modify your existing MP3 files with these extra tags.  (It didn't touch any of my LAME MP3 content.)

I just verified this with my iPod's LAME MP3 content.

That's odd compared to this users statement:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....8231&st=29# 


Edit: Or not.

I suppose tags are only written if iTunes had to analyse the encoder delay/padding itself. The values it finds are then stored in an ID3-tag. If iTunes could just rely on the data already in the MP3-info header put there by LAME it skips writing the tag because the data is already in the file.
  • Last Edit: 14 September, 2006, 02:21:07 PM by Maurits
There is a hidden message in the song at approximately 4:32. If played at half speed, Waters can be heard to say, "That was pretty avant-garde, wasn't it?"

  • guruboolez
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  • Members (Donating)
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #152
In fact someone just said they noticed very slight changes, that is proof enough for me that this is a best effort with mp3 that is not a gaples format to start with.

The workaround is to use CUE.

And what about fixing the existing problem instead of jumping to another shaky solution like cuesheet?
MPC had the same issue: small glitchs on transition. An updated encoder fixed this issue and there's no complaint anymore.
Cuesheet is nice, but it supposes that you must upload to your iPod the full album, and that you can't delete from it some annoying tracks and to keep the most enjoying ones. Moreover, cuesheet doesn't work well with MP3-VBR. foobar2000 did it well, but this makes MP3 seeking much slower, even on 3GHz CPU... so let imagine the issue on a small iPod.

  • hit_ny
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #153
Sure but the beauty of cue sheet is it will play gapless on even the simplest mp3 player, or every mp3 player.

The only issue is you can't see the track names if the player is not equipped for this. Mjor issue on portable players but the sound is ok.

vs...gapless info with LAME header which only works with the right player & if it was encoded with this info in the first place.

Also the problem with a few bad tracks, well dont play the album then right

If its a gapless album to start with and you cut tracks off that are mixed in, the transition is sure to be jarring either way.

Regarding speed for seeking, i'm inclined to think its more of a HD issue than a CPU issue, the bottle neck is how fast it can read off the HD.
  • Last Edit: 14 September, 2006, 02:30:24 PM by hit_ny

  • greynol
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #154
It will not modify your existing MP3 files with these extra tags.  (It didn't touch any of my LAME MP3 content.)

I just verified this with my iPod's LAME MP3 content.

That's odd compared to this users statement:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....8231&st=29# 

I just pulled a track from my ipod and looked at it with a hex editor.  The file is exactly the same as it was before I put it on my iPod using iTunes.  iTunes has never written anything to this file.

(Still lots of talk about gapless playback with iTunes and very little about gapless playback on iPods)


If iTunes could just rely on the data already in the MP3-info header put there by LAME it skips writing the tag because the data is already in the file.

Bingo!
13 February 2016: The world was blessed with the passing of a truly vile and wretched person.

Your eyes cannot hear.

  • kincaid
  • [*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #155
If iTunes could just rely on the data already in the MP3-info header put there by LAME it skips writing the tag because the data is already in the file.

Bingo!


iTunes only adds the tag to a track which IT encodes.

  • greynol
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #156
@hit_ny, quit trolling with the off-topic nonsense.
13 February 2016: The world was blessed with the passing of a truly vile and wretched person.

Your eyes cannot hear.

  • hit_ny
  • [*][*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #157
My intention is not to troll, i noticed the title gapless playback and stated my opinion on the topic.

If you want gapless, Apple's implementation is close but no cigar.

It's the only issue preventing me from getting an iPod atm.
  • Last Edit: 14 September, 2006, 02:38:28 PM by hit_ny

  • greynol
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #158
My intention is not to troll, i noticed the title gapless playback and stated my opinion on the topic.

If you want gapless, Apple's implementation is close but no cigar.

And this thing that isn't a cigar, is this fact or also your stated opinion?
13 February 2016: The world was blessed with the passing of a truly vile and wretched person.

Your eyes cannot hear.

  • hit_ny
  • [*][*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #159
Diskwriter test...

yes or no ?

I've yet to read about it.

record ouput from the iPod to WAV doing its "gapless" thing

..compare
  • Last Edit: 14 September, 2006, 02:46:17 PM by hit_ny

  • Maurits
  • [*][*][*][*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #160

If iTunes could just rely on the data already in the MP3-info header put there by LAME it skips writing the tag because the data is already in the file.

Bingo!


iTunes only adds the tag to a track which IT encodes.

Hhmm... I had my doubts about that and did a check. So far you seem right.

Where does iTunes store the values then? In the database? I suppose that makes sense because that's where the iPod needs the values as well since it won't read the tags on the files. Anyone notice any changes to the database structure?
  • Last Edit: 14 September, 2006, 02:47:08 PM by Maurits
There is a hidden message in the song at approximately 4:32. If played at half speed, Waters can be heard to say, "That was pretty avant-garde, wasn't it?"

  • grommet
  • [*][*][*][*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #161
Where does iTunes store the values then? In the database? I suppose that makes sense because that's where the iPod needs the values as well since it won't read the tags on the files. Anyone notice any changes to the database structure?
Yes, that's in the database... that's what iTunes does when it does the long/painful initial "gapless scan."

  • Maurits
  • [*][*][*][*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #162
Where does iTunes store the values then? In the database? I suppose that makes sense because that's where the iPod needs the values as well since it won't read the tags on the files. Anyone notice any changes to the database structure?
Yes, that's in the database... that's what iTunes does when it does the long/painful initial "gapless scan."

It is a bit odd to store the results of gain-level analysis in the metadata but not the results of gap-analysis though. 
There is a hidden message in the song at approximately 4:32. If played at half speed, Waters can be heard to say, "That was pretty avant-garde, wasn't it?"

  • Gabriel
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  • Developer
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #163
iTunes only adds the tag to a track which IT encodes.


Bill, could you please confirm if iTunes is using the gapless info provided by Lame, as it seems?

(btw welcome here)

  • Maurits
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #164
Ouch! Seems I questioned a statement I shouldn't have questioned. Sorry.
There is a hidden message in the song at approximately 4:32. If played at half speed, Waters can be heard to say, "That was pretty avant-garde, wasn't it?"

  • Big Fella
  • [*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #165
I have a 5th gen video ipod and the gapless playback is not on the player only via itunes, as far as I can see this was apples intnetion as they have also timed this with the release of the new updated 5th gen 30 and 80g which has longer battery life and .........gapless playback.

Dissapopinted that they have seen a niche and sought to exploit it, but hey ho we live in a world of captialism.

Has anyone on here actually experienced gapless playback on their ipod when it is not played thorugh itunes?

My music is set to gapless playback, have also ripped the odd cd again to see if this makes a difference or not, which it did not.

Oh and hello all, been a lurker for some time, just thought i'd interject with my experience.

  • grommet
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #166
Big Fella, did you upgrade your firmware?  That should bring it to parity with the updated 5G.

  • Big Fella
  • [*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #167
Doh!! Yeah just figured that in a moment of clarity, all is good now.

  • ExUser
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  • Read-only
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #168
What did you test and how?


LAME -aps encoded MP3s, in which I ended up with noticable gaps.
LAME -aps encoded MP3s split with pcutmp3. This most definitely writes LAME header information, which iTunes promptly ignored.

I've successfully got gapless working with ALAC ripped by iTunes itself, but that seems to be the one instance where it's working without issue on my 5G 60GB iPod Video. Nero AAC is intermittent.

  • kincaid
  • [*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #169

iTunes only adds the tag to a track which IT encodes.


Bill, could you please confirm if iTunes is using the gapless info provided by Lame, as it seems?

(btw welcome here)


Thanks, Gabriel.  Yes, iTunes does use LAME's gapless info (after some sanity checks).

GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #170

So I got iTunes 7 today, installed and plugged in my iPod with 3750 songs. It has now been doing that "Gathering information about gapless playback" for many many hours, and it is only about half way! How can I stop this??!! And what the h... is it really doing?


Computer specs and encoder settings of the file?

I tried it yesterday, with a library of roughly 4000 LAME 3.97 files on a P4 1.5 GHZ and it took about 40 minutes!


Ah ha! I think I now know why iTunes 7 did not show this "Gathering information about gapless playback" when I upgraded (or it disappeared so quick I did not notice). All (100%) of my tracks are in Apple Lossless, it appears that for Apple Lossless (and highly likely iTunes encoded AAC) this process is not necessary but is necessary for LAME / MP3 tracks.

Admittedly I have only ripped about 600 tracks so far but based on other peoples reports of it taking hours to scan I think this is the answer.

  • kincaid
  • [*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #171
[/quote]
Ah ha! I think I now know why iTunes 7 did not show this "Gathering information about gapless playback" when I upgraded (or it disappeared so quick I did not notice). All (100%) of my tracks are in Apple Lossless, it appears that for Apple Lossless (and highly likely iTunes encoded AAC) this process is not necessary but is necessary for LAME / MP3 tracks.
[/quote]

Correct.  The scan is also required for store files.  The scan is particularly slow for VBR MP3 files because of the need to decode the whole file to get an accurate sample count.

  • smiler
  • [*]
GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #172
I couldn't wait to try out this feature, but when I installed iTunes 7, I noticed a distinct lack of "Gathering information about gapless playback". My entire collection is Nero AAC (as it's been converted, via foobar2000 from FLAC and high bit-rate MP3 or MPC purely for my iPod).

I'm a little disapointed that iTunes didn't even try...

What's the feasibility of a 3rd party app 'converting' Nero AAC gapless data into iTunes gapless data?

It definately hasn't worked: I even tested with Dark Side of the Moon, just as Apple suggested .
  • Last Edit: 15 September, 2006, 05:40:26 PM by smiler

  • Maurits
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #173


iTunes only adds the tag to a track which IT encodes.


Bill, could you please confirm if iTunes is using the gapless info provided by Lame, as it seems?

(btw welcome here)


Thanks, Gabriel.  Yes, iTunes does use LAME's gapless info (after some sanity checks).

Thanks for the confirmation and the great work on this all together. 
  • Last Edit: 16 September, 2006, 05:15:41 AM by Maurits
There is a hidden message in the song at approximately 4:32. If played at half speed, Waters can be heard to say, "That was pretty avant-garde, wasn't it?"

  • ExUser
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GAPLESS Playback now in iPods - New!
Reply #174
iTunes does, yes. However, for some reason, this isn't translating over to gapless playback on my iPod...