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Topic: - q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? ! (Read 14367 times) previous topic - next topic
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- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Hello,

- q0 problem still exists  ?!

I am using EAC and lame 3.97b2 to encode wav to mp3.
the settings are:

-V 0 --vbr-new -q 0  >>>  q val = 0 , Encoding time = 13 sec.
-V 0 --vbr-new        >>>  q val = 3 , Encoding time = 13 sec.

- b320 - q0              >>>  q val = 0 , Encoding time = 43 sec.
- b320                    >>>  q val = 3 , Encoding time = 13 sec.

-b320 is my favorite setting !!!

NOTE:
          1. encoding time for me is neglected.
          2. there was no differences in files size.
          3. and yes, I did search the forum.

1) If (- q0) improves quality, why it is not recommended?
2) why in (- b320) it takes more time to encode? because of the (- q0) problem? or because it is realy
    improves the quality?
3) In what manner does it improve the quality ?
4) what is the differences between - q0 and -q3 ??
5) Or insted to use (- h) switch = (-q 2)
6) why this issue is ignored by lame developers?
7) should I wait for 3.98b ??

thanks

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #1
It's fixed since quite some time. The -q switch behaves differently in old & new VBR modes, take a look here.

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #2
q0 can cause "ringing". It is especially not desirable at high CBR bitrates (320kbps), because it causes ringing that I was able to ABX.

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #3
Interesting, can you provide some more info? LAME version, switches, ABX logs, etc. Or did you already mention it somewhere in another topic?

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #4
Thanks for yours reply,

I dont understand:

has it fixed or not?
what are the alternatives: not to use q0 and let lame decide auto?
if it fixed in what manner does it improve qality?
what is the differences between - q0 and -q3 ??????
thx

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #5
Interesting, can you provide some more info? LAME version, switches, ABX logs, etc. Or did you already mention it somewhere in another topic?

it is in the Lame problem samples thread. However, the ringing is present at -q 0, -q 1, but also at -q 2, so I recommend encoding at default quality (-q 3)

J.M.

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #6
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=39314


Problem: Ringing with bitrates up to 320k. (--preset insane)

Late edit: happens with -q 0, -q 1 and q 2

Spectrograms, that really don't say anything: original sample, Lame --preset insane sample.

WinABX (with Lame3.98a4 --preset insane -h) :CODEWinABX v0.42 test report
05/31/2006 16:30:19

A file: J:\scooter2.wav
B file: J:\scooter2lame.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:11.3
16:30:44    1/1  p=50.0%
16:30:50    2/2  p=25.0%
16:30:56    3/3  p=12.5%
16:31:02    4/4  p=6.2%
16:31:07    5/5  p=3.1%
16:31:13    6/6  p=1.6%
16:31:18    7/7  p=0.8%
16:31:25    8/8  p=0.4%
16:31:33    9/9  p=0.2%
16:31:42  10/10  p< 0.1%

though I can hear it only in my left ear which is better at high frequencies.

J.M.

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #7
thank you for copying my post, hehe

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #8
If not to use best quality, then, what is the point of using latest Lame enc. version and EAC. ?

just use commercial software  like easy cd da extractor ( witch use lame 3.97).

 

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #9
In --vbr-new mode
q0 ~ q3  <---  It's same.

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #10
If not to use best quality, then, what is the point of using latest Lame enc. version and EAC. ?

just use commercial software  like easy cd da extractor ( witch use lame 3.97).

Best quality at any given bitrate above and at 128 kbps, for the mp3 codec. I don't have to encode at 320 kbps just because I'm using the latest and bestest (i know, best).

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #11
In --vbr-new mode
q0 ~ q3  <---  It's same.


ok,
so, why in (- b320) it takes more time to encode? because of the (- q0) problem? or because it is realy
improves the quality?

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #12

In --vbr-new mode
q0 ~ q3  <---  It's same.


ok,
so, why in (- b320) it takes more time to encode? because of the (- q0) problem? or because it is realy
improves the quality?



-b320 isn't the vbr-new mode.
I was saying only about the vbr-new mode.
Anyway...
Each options make different result.
-q2 and -q0 can be different. (except vbr-new mode.)
In CBR mode, -q 0 takes more time. because that uses more
complicate routine maybe.
and sorry~
I'm not sure that makes better quality or not.
But they say q2 is enough. So I just use -q2

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #13
so,
vbe new is better than b320 ?

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #14
so,
vbe new is better than b320 ?

No~
I don't mean that.

You tried vbr-new and CBR.
then you got a result that q0 and q2 take same time in vbr-new mode.
and CBR is different.
I thought you want to know what's difference between q0 and q2 in both modes.
So, I said that q0 ~ q3 don't make any difference in vbr-new mode.

I think you should use just -b320 -h option.(-h = -q2)
That's the way to get best quality and high speed together.

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #15
Trying to clarify a few things ( from the lame changelog ) :

Quote
LAME 3.97 beta 1  September 12 2005
#Reworked -q1 and -q0

LAME 3.94 beta December 15 2003
# best huffman divide in the inner loop. This should improve the quality, but PAINFULLY slow. So it is not enabled by default. Use -q0 to use it.
# Changed -q option mapping. "-q2" until version 3.93 is now "-q3".

LAME 3.93.1    December 1 2002
# fix -q0 switch


So, what does that say?
1) one bug with the -q0 switch was fixed in lame 3.93.1.
2) -q0 is now q1, q1 is now q2, q2 is now q3.. etc..
3) -q0 is now a slower algorithm which can, (but not necessarily) improve quality
4) -h continues to be -q 2, but it's not the one it used to be before the change.

edit: spelling

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #16
I am really confused now.

-q0, -q1 had problem, so the recommendation was to use -q2 ?
but they say -q2 has also problem ?

so, to use the defult -q3 ??? for cbr 320 and V0 new ???

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #17
-q3 or -q0 are producing the SAME file with vbr-new.
Under vbr-old or cbr/abr, the difference is the noise shaping amplification mode (ie how do you gradually increase scalefactors to match the masking values). As vbr-new is using a more direct method, this is irrelevant.[...]

[...]
There was a specific code that was enabled at -q0, and I only found it during the 3.97 alpha stage, searching for a strange behavior of -q0.

I think that you can now safely change the q value to a lower one.
Not sure if it is really worth it, however.

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #18
ok, thanks.

so, what is best settings for best quality:

-b320 -q3
or
-V0-new -q0=-q1=-q2=-q3

thanks in advance


- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #20
Hello men, I also think so, but look at these results, that will suprise you.

1. encoding wav file to mp3 using the settings above with EAC, lame 3.97b2
2. NOTE the differences in pink.
3. audio identifier used for the reports
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-V 0 --vbr-new


Tag revision:        0
Version string:      3.97b
Quality:            97 (V0 and q3)
Encoding method:    vbr new / vbr mtrh
Lowpass:            19,500Hz
RG track peak:      <not stored>
RG track gain:      -5.1dB (determined automatically)
RG album gain:      <not stored>
nspsytune:          yes
nssafejoint:        yes
nogap continued:    no
nogap continuation:  no
ATH type:            4
Bitrate:            minimal (-b) bitrate 192
Encoder delay:      576 samples
Padded at end:      2,184 samples
Noise shaping:      1
Stereo mode:        stereo
Unwise settings:    no
Source sample freq:  44.1kHz
MP3Gain change:      <none>
Preset:              V0: preset extreme (fast mode)
Surround info:      none
Music length:        4,010,075 bytes
Music CRC:          0B35
Actual Music CRC:    0B35
Info tag CRC:        823D
Actual Info Tag CRC: 823D
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-b 320

Tag revision:        0
Version string:      3.97b
Quality:            57 (V4 and q3)
Encoding method:    cbr
Lowpass:            20,500Hz
RG track peak:      <not stored>
RG track gain:      -5.1dB (determined automatically)
RG album gain:      <not stored>
nspsytune:          yes
nssafejoint:        yes
nogap continued:    no
nogap continuation:  no
ATH type:            4
Bitrate:            255 or higher
Encoder delay:      576 samples
Padded at end:      2,184 samples
Noise shaping:      1
Stereo mode:        stereo
Unwise settings:    no
Source sample freq:  44.1kHz
MP3Gain change:      <none>
Preset:              cbr 320
Surround info:      none
Music length:        5,512,880 bytes
Music CRC:          5462
Actual Music CRC:    5462
Info tag CRC:        C601
Actual Info Tag CRC: C601

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-b 320 -q 0

Tag revision:        0
Version string:      3.97b
Quality:            60 (V4 and q0)Encoding method:    cbr
Lowpass:            20,500Hz
RG track peak:      <not stored>
RG track gain:      -5.1dB (determined automatically)
RG album gain:      <not stored>
nspsytune:          yes
nssafejoint:        yes
nogap continued:    no
nogap continuation:  no
ATH type:            4
Bitrate:            255 or higher
Encoder delay:      576 samples
Padded at end:      2,184 samples
Noise shaping:      1
Stereo mode:        stereo
Unwise settings:    no
Source sample freq:  44.1kHz
MP3Gain change:      <none>
Preset:              cbr 320
Surround info:      none
Music length:        5,512,880 bytes
Music CRC:          3EC7
Actual Music CRC:    3EC7
Info tag CRC:        A6FA
Actual Info Tag CRC: A6FA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now, what do you say, which one is better ?
That is weird,  how come -b 320 use v4 ? it should use v0 ?

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #21
You should notice that in that Quality measure, it says " V4 ", and you know that it is not a VBR file.
That should just clarify it.

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #22
I wasn't aware that quality of MP3's could be measured without the source file...
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #23
Quote
now, what do you say, which one is better ????????

I would actually answer that one, but I draw the line at five question marks. Please learn to write in a non-annoying way, thank you very much. Sorry if this post goes against some forum guidelines.

Edit: stephanV:  Truth! Justice! Freedom! Reasonably priced love! And a hard-boiled egg! ;-)

- q0 Switch with LAME 3.97b2 problem solved ? !

Reply #24
-b320 is not the -V4.
That number doesn't really mean quality.
If you try
--abr 8 -q0 -V0 (ABR with 8Kbps)
That also shows 100.

 
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