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Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

hi,
for me mp3 is still a good codec. i always use the lame codec to rip audio-cds. but why are there still so many people who rip with worse mp3-encoders like xing, blade ... and in a bitrate of 128kbit? what programs still use this encoders? is there a black list of ripping-programs which a newbie should better avoid, if not i make a start:

musicmatch jukebox: unknown
windows media player: unknown
apple itunes: unknown
realplayer: unknown

freeware:
cdex: unknown
audiograbber: unknown

sry, i don't have the time at the moment, i will complete my list in the next days... . cya  .

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #1
CDex and audiograbber are using lame and can be configured to use command lines. The four above are all using their own mp3 encoder.
portable: 128 kbps cbr AAC
local: -7 FLAC

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #2
WMP uses FhG (check properties of C:\Windows\System32\l3codecp.acm)

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #3
new Media player uses fhg fastenc and i'm sure MMJB too. I think realplayer now uses a modified Xing with short blocks (maybe im wrong). Only itunes uses a crappy encoder from which is better stay away.

J.M.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #4
hi,
but why are there still so many people who rip with worse mp3-encoders like xing, blade ... and in a bitrate of 128kbit?


a) What proof do you have that (recent) Xing is a bad encoder?
b) What proof do you have that 128kbps would not be enough?

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #5
a) What proof do you have that (recent) Xing is a bad encoder?
b) What proof do you have that 128kbps would not be enough?
I agree. While LAME is good - that doesn't mean that everything else is bad.

For the record, MMJB uses fastenc - or at least the last version I tried did.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #6
The problem isn't just a particular encoder that's used but the settings the program places on the encoder such as Audacity with lame_enc.dll not using Joint Stereo, and from what I can remember (it's been many months) AudioGrabber was screwing up LAME settings. I don't trust rippers to use my preferred settings because they could inject some bullshit that I don't want and which isn't a recommended settings while encoding which is why I rely soly upon command line encoders via one of Speek's Frontends.

Edit:
And to add I've heard a few encodings made with a newer XING encoder and was delighted with the quality.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #7
How about a listening test featuring these implementations?
Xing, Apple's mp3 encoder, FhG and LAME? Btw. where can I find a program using Xing?

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #8
How about a listening test featuring these implementations?
Xing, Apple's mp3 encoder, FhG and LAME? Btw. where can I find a program using Xing?

the new Xing with short blocks is open-source and can be downloaded at Rarewares under MP3 as "Helix mp3enc v5.1" 

J.M.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #9
Ah, thank you. I forgot that.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #10
The last time xing was tested (about 2 years ago i think) it came out quite good.
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #11
According to this topic the iTunes MP3 encoder was improved not too long ago.
Every night with my star friends / We eat caviar and drink champagne
Sniffing in the VIP area / We talk about Frank Sinatra
Do you know Frank Sinatra? / He's dead

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #12
i think itunes uses FHG too ?

realplayer bought up xing so im pretty sure they use a modified xing encoder.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #13
new Media player uses fhg fastenc ...

What's the WMP version exactly that uses fastenc?
lame3995o -Q1.7
opus --bitrate 140

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #14
Audiograbber is not bundled with any mp3 encoder. It's recommended to use Lame which is configured for internally but it can use Xing, Fraunhofer etc.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #15

new Media player uses fhg fastenc ...

What's the WMP version exactly that uses fastenc?

i think Media Player 10 (edit- oops, or 11??) uses fhg ACM v3.3.0.44, which happens to be fastenc (vey fast). WMP 9 used fhg ACM v1.x (which seems to be similar to the Radium hack v1.2.0.63, very slow and with JS bug)

J.M.

edit- it really seems to be WMP11 that uses fastenc (if you have WMP installed, you can check the version of "l3codecp.acm" in Windows/system32)

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #16
i think Media Player 10 (edit- oops, or 11??) uses fhg ACM v3.3.0.44, which happens to be fastenc (vey fast). WMP 9 used fhg ACM v1.x (which seems to be similar to the Radium hack v1.2.0.63, very slow and with JS bug)

J.M.

edit- it really seems to be WMP11 that uses fastenc (if you have WMP installed, you can check the version of "l3codecp.acm" in Windows/system32)

So essentially FhG ACM v3.3.0.44 = fastenc?
Do you conclude from the encoding speed that it's fastenc? Or do you have more insight?
Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11.
lame3995o -Q1.7
opus --bitrate 140

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #17
Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11.
fastencc.exe is on reallyrarewares
There is no need to install any version of WMP, you can get l3codecp.acm by extracting the installer with something like 7zip.
I didn't realize v3.3x was fastenc based.. it makes sense to me now that I think about it though.

Xing 1.5 is findable with google (if you know what to look for  ).  Wow that baby is fast.
Vorbis-q0-lowpass99
lame3.93.1-q5-V9-k-nspsytune

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #18
I will on the odd occasion use LAME or MMJB, but I usually use itunes vbr highest quality, 160 kbps+ for obviously so-so recordings or stuff I don't care so much about, 192+ kbps for other stuff.  It's very convenient for use with my ipod.  I'm satisfied with it.   

According to this topic the iTunes MP3 encoder was improved not too long ago.

 

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #19

Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11.
fastencc.exe is on reallyrarewares
There is no need to install any version of WMP, you can get l3codecp.acm by extracting the installer with something like 7zip.
I didn't realize v3.3x was fastenc based.. it makes sense to me now that I think about it though.

Xing 1.5 is findable with google (if you know what to look for  ).  Wow that baby is fast.


I cannot find Xing latest versions.

All that comes up aer HA threads :S

e: I found Helix on rarewares.

I presume you encode using hmp3.exe, but what are the command line switches ?

(I am using foo as a frontend)
hi

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #20
[quote author=tool++ link=msg=415750 date=1153980858]e: I found Helix on rarewares.

I presume you encode using hmp3.exe, but what are the command line switches ?[/quote]
There is a good thread about Helix, and a very good setting level found is

V120 -X2 -HF2 -SBT450 -TX0

This is VBR yielding an average bitrate of something like 200 kbps.

Helix' quality seems to be very good as level found in an intensive test. My own experience concerning my tonal standard problem samples (harp40_1, herding_calls, trumpet): they get at the not-at-all-annoying level with this setting. This is very good as usually it requires at least 224 kbps CBR or ABR, and Fraunhofer VBR mode as well as Lame VBR (prior to 3.98a3) have problems with these samples.
lame3995o -Q1.7
opus --bitrate 140

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #21
So essentially FhG ACM v3.3.0.44 = fastenc?
Do you conclude from the encoding speed that it's fastenc? Or do you have more insight?
Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11.

I checked the lowpass, short block usage, bit reservoir etc... and it happens to be very similar to FastEnc (and speed also)
fastencc.exe is on reallyrarewares

I always hate when someone says that. The "fastencc102.exe" is NOT the same as real FastEnc!! "Real" FastEnc does not have stereo collapse bug even in fast mode and also the fastencc102 introduces more noise on some problem samples (Deploration...)

J.M.

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #22

So essentially FhG ACM v3.3.0.44 = fastenc?
Do you conclude from the encoding speed that it's fastenc? Or do you have more insight?
Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11.

I checked the lowpass, short block usage, bit reservoir etc... and it happens to be very similar to FastEnc (and speed also)
fastencc.exe is on reallyrarewares

I always hate when someone says that. The "fastencc102.exe" is NOT the same as real FastEnc!! "Real" FastEnc does not have stereo collapse bug even in fast mode and also the fastencc102 introduces more noise on some problem samples (Deploration...)

J.M.

Thanks a lot.
lame3995o -Q1.7
opus --bitrate 140

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #23
[quote author=tool++ link=msg=415750 date=1153980858]I cannot find Xing latest versions.

All that comes up aer HA threads :S[/quote]Like I said, you have to know how to find it (hint: "zip").


I always hate when someone says that. The "fastencc102.exe" is NOT the same as real FastEnc!! "Real" FastEnc does not have stereo collapse bug even in fast mode and also the fastencc102 introduces more noise on some problem samples (Deploration...)
I wasn't aware of that.  Thank you for the enlightenment.  But out of the fhg encoders known as 'fastenc' that I have tested, they all seem to perform similarly.
Vorbis-q0-lowpass99
lame3.93.1-q5-V9-k-nspsytune

Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?

Reply #24
One of the main reasons why these programs use encoders besides LAME is not because they are bad programs, but because of licensing issues.

 
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