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Topic: -usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc (Read 7947 times) previous topic - next topic
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-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

I've posted some tests of the EAC -usefua switch with my various Plextor drives.  I still have 900+ more CDs to rip so I'm still trying to figure out the fastest most accurate way to to do it.

Btw, I can’t use common technique of “burst mode” + “test & copy” because I save full CD CUE+WAV images instead of individual tracks.  I'm also trying to avoid using Plextools because it installs a cpu-hogging copy-protection "license manager" and its interface with freedb is kludgy.

results posted here:
http://www.digital-inn.de/exact-audio-copy...html#post111745

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #1 –
Quote from: wylistener on
I'm also trying to avoid using Plextools because it installs a cpu-hogging copy-protection "license manager" and its interface with freedb is kludgy.


What? Please, give more information on this.

Ivan.
TAPE LOADING ERROR

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #2 –
Quote from: hlloyge on
Quote from: wylistener on

I'm also trying to avoid using Plextools because it installs a cpu-hogging copy-protection "license manager" and its interface with freedb is kludgy.


What? Please, give more information on this.



I'm surprised this this particular aspect about PlexTools hasn't come up before.  When you install PlexTools XL, it junks up your computer with its software copy-protection utilities.  Look at Task Manager and you'll see the following 2 processes:

  • Licence Manager ESD.exe
  • License Cleanup ESD.0001
[/font]
There may be other related files in Task Manager.  I don't know if it's Macrovision safecast or equivalent type of scheme.  These executables will ALWAYS be running whether you are actively using PlexTools or not.

Every once in a while, the utilities will shoot up to 50% cpu usage.  I don't know if it's trying to call home or some other nonsense.  I have Plextor drives on 4 different desktops but I only install PlexTools on one of them because of this intrusive software.

I've ripped about 800 CDs so far and  PlexTools is really useful for just one thing:  reading a weird copy-protected disc or badly scratched disc.  Another critical deficiency of PlexTools is the inability to seach for INDEX points beyond 00 and 01 to embed into the CUE file.  EAC will correctly get ALL the INDEX points.  Some classical CDs with long running tracks will sometimes have additional INDEX points.  Here's an excerpt of a fairly famous CD called "Bachbusters"; you can see that TRACK 14 has 14 addtional "index" points within the track.  Plextools will not grab those.  You have to use EAC for that.  Since I only want to scan my discs once-and-only-once, I want the best archive image copy I can get, which means getting ALL the INDEX points.  This is the irony with PlexTools:  on one hand it enables all the advanced features of their drives but at the same time, it's quite brain dead (INDEX points 02+ and primitive freedb features.)

Bachbusters CUE file exerpt...
  TRACK 13 AUDIO
    TITLE "Three-Part Inventions No 15 In A Major, BWV 801"
    PERFORMER "Don Dorsey"
    INDEX 00 22:37:50
    INDEX 01 22:39:30
  TRACK 14 AUDIO
    TITLE "Diverse Kanons, BWV 1087"
    PERFORMER "Don Dorsey"
    INDEX 00 23:47:00
    INDEX 01 23:50:70
    INDEX 02 24:21:37
    INDEX 03 24:40:42
    INDEX 04 25:00:37
    INDEX 05 25:22:27
    INDEX 06 25:43:62
    INDEX 07 26:31:10
    INDEX 08 26:50:52
    INDEX 09 27:13:65
    INDEX 10 27:34:50
    INDEX 11 27:56:35
    INDEX 12 28:48:22
    INDEX 13 29:29:30
    INDEX 14 30:00:25
  TRACK 15 AUDIO
    TITLE "Toccata in D minor, BWV 565"
    PERFORMER "Don Dorsey"
    INDEX 00 31:33:00
    INDEX 01 31:36:55
...

(Btw, You also have to have the right drive and firmware to read all INDEX points.  The Plextor PX-230A buggy firmware only reads up to INDEX 08. )

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #3 –
I have created a sticky thread at Digital-Inn for FUA testing ... see here ... http://www.digital-inn.de/108057-post1.html
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #4 –
wylistener wrote:
>Btw, I can’t use common technique of burst mode + test & copy because I
>save full CD CUE+WAV images instead of individual tracks.

Then rip each image twice.

>I'm also trying
>to avoid using Plextools because it installs a cpu-hogging copy-protection
>"license manager" and its interface with freedb is kludgy.

You should be using PlexTools Pro off the CD/DVD that came with with your Plextor drive instead.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #5 –
So, it's only in XL version, then. I am using mainly Plextools Pro with my Plextor drive for extraction, and if and when it fails, I use EAC then. Most of the time it really helps.

Ivan.
TAPE LOADING ERROR

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #6 –
hhloyge wrote:
>I am using mainly Plextools Pro with my Plextor drive for extraction,
>and if and when it fails, I use EAC then. Most of the time it really helps

EAC helps when PlexTools fails? Now it's my turn to ask for elucidation re: "fails" and "helps".

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #7 –
It happened not once that I had disk which Plextools didn't read well, they had read errors (I have only an option to slow down upon errors turned on, because I am pretty unsure about how the other options work).
When extracting with EAC on same drive (it's 40x CDR burner) but with Secure Mode, it usually extracts OK.
I am using Plextools mainly because of speed. This works for me.

Explained enough?

Ivan.
TAPE LOADING ERROR

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #8 –
For the explanation of PlexTools Pro's DAE settings, see the PlexTools manual. If PTP cannot rip without read errors and EAC can, either EAC fails to detect the errors or you need to set the Error Correction level in PTP  higher.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #9 –
EAC detects errors, but manages to extract audio. I've read the manual about the other settings, but, as I said, am unsure how they work and what do they actually do, so I leave it only on "slow down".

Ivan.
TAPE LOADING ERROR

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #10 –
hlloyge wrote:
>so I leave it only on "slow down".

That's like buying a Ferrari, replacing its engine with one from a Volkswagen and driving at 30 mph. But  hey - it's a free world.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #11 –


Well, maybe you're right, but my CDs are mostly in mint condition. Sometimes I buy used ones which are in bad condition, so I try to extract them ASAP, and these settings had worked for me for now.
As for speed... well, I have plenty of time

Ivan.
TAPE LOADING ERROR

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Never_Again on
hlloyge wrote:
>so I leave it only on "slow down".

That's like buying a Ferrari, replacing its engine with one from a Volkswagen and driving at 30 mph. But  hey - it's a free world.

Why? Slowing down the extraction when errors occur can help ripping scratched discs. Using EAC there has been a handful of times for me when setting the drive to 4x/8x (ie not max) has corrected a problem with achieving matching CRCs.
daefeatures.co.uk

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #13 –
>errors occur can help ripping scratched discs

There have been posts on HA that suggest modern drives will rip worse if slowed down, obviously each drive type is different.

>achieving matching CRCs

If the drive interpolates then matching CRCs mean nothing about it being without errors.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #14 –
Quote from: spoon on
>errors occur can help ripping scratched discs

There have been posts on HA that suggest modern drives will rip worse if slowed down, obviously each drive type is different.

I have a PX-708A.

Quote from: spoon on
>achieving matching CRCs

If the drive interpolates then matching CRCs mean nothing about it being without errors.

.. inconjunction with Accuraterip. I had a CD from the library just recently where slowing down the rip helped. The next time this happens I'll log the results.
daefeatures.co.uk

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #15 –
Quote from: spoon on
There have been posts on HA that suggest modern drives will rip worse if slowed down, obviously each drive type is different.
I have such a drive, a Sony 52X (don't remember the exact model number, sorry).
I also have a PX-716A which is just the opposite.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #16 –
So the plextors are the inverse of other drives?

A modern drive (perhaps 52x) must be able to rip from ~x10 speed to ~x30 due to CD design - by slow down what do you have it set to?

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #17 –
Quote from: spoon on
So the plextors are the inverse of other drives?
Both of my Plextors do a better job at slower speeds when it comes to ripping discs that give errors.  I'm talking about 4X or slower.  When ripping at these settings I almost begin to trust matching CRCs again. 

Quote from: spoon on
A modern drive (perhaps 52x) must be able to rip from ~x10 speed to ~x30 due to CD design - by slow down what do you have it set to?
The speed options for the Sony drive (CDU5221) are Acutal and 23.9X.  I have it set to 23.9X and uncheck "Allow speed reduction during extraction" (which actually works for this drive).  The best ripping configuration seems to be dependent on the disc so these settings never stay one way.  C2 error information cannot be trusted with this drive but I have one disc that it can't rip correctly (as verified by your program) without this setting checked. 
My apologies to those who consider this off-topic.

Back on topic, I use -usefua with my PX-716A and have not once encountered a result that I did not trust that didn't also occur without the switch and audio caching checked.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #18 –
spoon sez:
>So the plextors are the inverse of other drives?

According to my tests with Plextools Pro, both the Premium and the PX-712A report more errors (C2 and CU) at 4X than any other speed.

greynol sez:
>C2 error information cannot be trusted with this drive but I have one
>disc that it can't rip correctly (as verified by your program) without this
>setting checked.

Doesn't the second half of this statement refute the first?

>I use -usefua with my PX-716A and have not once encountered a result
>that I did not trust that didn't also occur without the switch and audio
>caching checked.

Yesterday I was about to remark that this was a good news for two certain homeless crazies subscribing to a lossless newsgroup, when something distracted me, heheh.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Never_Again on
greynol sez:
>C2 error information cannot be trusted with this drive but I have one
>disc that it can't rip correctly (as verified by your program) without this
>setting checked.

Doesn't the second half of this statement refute the first?
No, Never_Again, it doesn't; not at all.

Quote from: Never_Again on
Yesterday I was about to remark that this was a good news for two certain homeless crazies subscribing to a lossless newsgroup, when something distracted me, heheh.
You're projecting again.  Yes, I lurk in newgroups but I don't contribute.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #20 –
greynol, you say that "C2 error information cannot be trusted" with that drive, and yet in the same breath state that you can't get AccurateRip to acknowledge the rip as accurate without it. That looks like a contradiction to me. It's either you don't trust that EAC radio button, or don't trust AccurateRip. Which is it?

>Yes, I lurk in newgroups but I don't contribute.

There is a more concise way to put it: a leech.  A rather selective one: missed the badge but not the "DOBS". Now it is my day that is getting brighter.
<edit punctuation>

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #21 –
>There is a more concise way to put it: a leech.
N_A, You make too many assumptions. Lurking does not mean leeching.

>you say that "C2 error information cannot be trusted" with that drive, and yet in the same breath state that you can't get AccurateRip
>to acknowledge the rip as accurate without it.
Not exactly.  I said that I have a particular disc from which I can't get an accurate rip without C2 checked as verified by AccurateRip.

>That looks like a contradiction to me.
Strange, from over here it looks like you're confused.

>It's either you don't trust that EAC radio button, or don't trust AccurateRip. Which is it?
You ask the question as if there was a contradiction.

Here:
  • I trust AccurateRip.
  • I trust the EAC radio button.
  • I trust that the EAC radio button can't distinguish between drives that pass correct C2 information and those that pass incorrect C2 information.
  • I trust that my Sony can't pass correct C2 information
  • I trust that I have provided full and complete information regarding the situation
  • I trust that you don't fully understand what it is that I'm telling you

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #22 –
Dear greynol, it seems that one of us has issues with basic logic principles, which makes further discussion pointless, pleasant as it may be. My apologies if I offended you by taking for someone else.

-usefua tests with Plextor PX-760A, PX-716A, PX-708A, etc

Reply #23 –
Never_Again,

Your inability to understand how it is possible for a drive that can't be trusted to provide accurate C2 information and yet need the setting checked in order to produce an accurate rip for a particular disc is not my problem.

I mentioned it in passing for those who might appreciate knowing that changing drive configuration in EAC may help when trying to get an accurate rip.  I was also hoping that it may somehow be related to the part of the discussion having to do with some drives performing better when running at higher speeds, considering that C2 reporting can help to sustain high-speed reading since it prevents the additional seeking which is required to read data a second time.

I do not claim to know everything that is at play here.  I am only trying to share something that I noticed which is again:
I have a drive that reports C2 information that can't be trusted
I have a disc that requires this setting to be checked in order to be ripped accurately with this drive.

These are facts.  Dismissing them, suggesting they are contradictory, or attacking the messenger only demonstrates that you don't understand what's going on.  It's ok not to know how these facts can coexist and you'd be much better served acknowledging it.

I think I've pretty well demonstrated that I am not having difficulty with "basic logic principles."