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Topic: Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder (Read 490692 times) previous topic - next topic
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Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #200 –
First of all, thanks for this awesome encoder, Nero! 

I've encoded a few files via the LC VBR profile at q 0.15 (for my PocketPC device), and I admit I'm shocked and amazed at the quality it delivers.  However, at q 0.14, the lowpass apparently drops sharply, and much to my chagrin, much of the audio's high frequency signal is cut off. 

Is there a way for the (advanced) user to manually set the codec's lowpass frequency?  I think this would help tremendously in the AAC-LC low-bitrate area for those of us who cannot play AAC-HE on any hardware or mobile devices.  Thanks!

PS: I'm glad to finally be a part of the Hydrogenaudio community!
Copy Restriction, Annulment, & Protection = C.R.A.P. -Supacon

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #202 –
If you use EAC, tags can be made with TG.EXE

Program: c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe

Additional command line options: /c c:\<path>\neroaacenc.exe -q 0.6 -if %s -of %d && c:\<path>\tg.exe %d --artist "%a" --album "%g" --track "%n" --title "%t" --genre "%m" --year "%y"

Seems to work ok.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #203 –
Ivan or Garf:

Whenever the encoder is updated, will you let us know here? Or will we be able to just check the site (@ Nero) for it to tell us that an updated version has been posted?

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #204 –
Quote from: The Sheep of DEATH on
However, at q 0.14, the lowpass apparently drops sharply, and much to my chagrin, much of the audio's high frequency signal is cut off.


Are you sure the encoder didn't switch to HE AAC? Try forcing LC AAC with one of the options. -lc I think

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #205 –
Quote
Are you sure the encoder didn't switch to HE AAC? Try forcing LC AAC with one of the options. -lc I think
No it's not, he uses LC, did he use HE profile not will get cut off high frequncy, downsample to the 22khz or lower.

Low pass frequency sound like good option, like various stereo modes, and every pro thing.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #206 –
Great encoder... very good work.
I have a question though. I saw some posts earlier that the NeroAacEnc.exe checks if the system has support for SSE SSE2 and SSE3... and uses the ones that are available ... does NeroAacEnc_sse2.exe do the same thing? (refering to SSE3 support) ...

If my system supports SSE3 instructions will the encoder make use of this? And if so... witch executable?.. the nonSSE or the other?

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #207 –
Quote from: Dzamburu on
Quote
Are you sure the encoder didn't switch to HE AAC? Try forcing LC AAC with one of the options. -lc I think
No it's not, he uses LC, did he use HE profile not will get cut off high frequncy, downsample to the 22khz or lower.


I don't fully understand what you are saying, but if you decode HE AAC with a LC AAC decoder you will indeed get a 22kHz file, which has the same effect as lowpass at 11kHz.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #208 –
Quote from: menno on
Quote from: Dzamburu on

Quote
Are you sure the encoder didn't switch to HE AAC? Try forcing LC AAC with one of the options. -lc I think
No it's not, he uses LC, did he use HE profile not will get cut off high frequncy, downsample to the 22khz or lower.


I don't fully understand what you are saying, but if you decode HE AAC with a LC AAC decoder you will indeed get a 22kHz file, which has the same effect as lowpass at 11kHz.
When you use LC and lower bitrates lower than 96kbs you get downsample like 32,22khz and other, but with lowpass switch you can stay to 44khz but with artifacts. with 22khz you get a big cut off of high frequencyies.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #209 –
Quote from: The Sheep of DEATH on
I've encoded a few files via the LC VBR profile at q 0.15 (for my PocketPC device), and I admit I'm shocked and amazed at the quality it delivers.  However, at q 0.14, the lowpass apparently drops sharply, and much to my chagrin, much of the audio's high frequency signal is cut off.


I have experimenting at low bitrates in LC profiles as well, comparing with iTunes 64kbps. Interestingly, what I found is I could almost always ABX the -q based VBR vs both iTunes and -2pass vbr, but not the others. The observation being that for the same (low) bitrate, -q always sounded much worse, with some rather nasty warbling artifacts.

I have settled on -lc -br 64000 -2pass

To be honest, I cannot ABX between this setting and iTunes 64kbps, but 2 pass vbr has got to be better ;-) and I am glad to get rid of iTunes.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #210 –
Quote from: Deep_Elem on
Quote from: M on
If a command-line version and/or a small-footprint GUI are available instead, I am more likely to make extensive use of the encoder. Either way I'm looking forward to experimenting with it.


Try Speek's BatchEnc:  http://members.home.nl/w.speek/batchenc.htm

  Been using that one for ages... I've even recommended it to others asking similar questions on HA. And yes, it works fine with this encoder as well, but what I had in mind was something more along the lines of "Ivan & Menno" (Speek's older, dedicated frontend for Psytel and FAAD). Something that would give an end-user easy access to relevant options, without said user having to suss out the proper command-line syntax.

Nothing wrong with proper command-line syntax, of course! But while I'm thoroughly comfortable with BatchEnc, if I want to turn a novice friend on to this encoder it would be nice if there was also a novice-friendly way to learn about it.

    - M.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #211 –
Quote from: Dzamburu on
Quote from: menno on

Quote from: Dzamburu on

Quote
Are you sure the encoder didn't switch to HE AAC? Try forcing LC AAC with one of the options. -lc I think
No it's not, he uses LC, did he use HE profile not will get cut off high frequncy, downsample to the 22khz or lower.


I don't fully understand what you are saying, but if you decode HE AAC with a LC AAC decoder you will indeed get a 22kHz file, which has the same effect as lowpass at 11kHz.
When you use LC and lower bitrates lower than 96kbs you get downsample like 32,22khz and other, but with lowpass switch you can stay to 44khz but with artifacts. with 22khz you get a big cut off of high frequencyies.


I did in fact use the -lc switch, and I can assure everyone that my encoded files are indeed reported as 44.1khz.  It is the codec's lowpass I am referring to in my above post.  The reason lowpass exists is to mask encoding artifacts which would inevitably be present in the audio's high spectrum when the bitrate falls too low for the encoder to otherwise conceal them.  The Nero LC encoder, for instance, produces very few annoying "artifacts" even at -lc -q 0.1 but with a much higher lowpass frequency, so the resulting file would have very little high-frequency preservation and thus sound "dull," "flat," or "garbled."  In my case, however, I find Nero's current lowpass too aggressive for my music, and I'd like to be able to "tell the encoder so" by manually specifying a higher lowpass frequency. 

To demonstrate what I mean, try the following test. 
With an audio file containing many audible high-frequency components, perform an encode at -lc -q 0.15 and another at -lc -q 0.14.  The difference: though only a tiny bit smaller, the q 0.14 encode will sound drastically flatter because the high-frequency components are drastically reduced compared to the q 0.15 encode.  In conclusion, the high-end will be effectively eliminated due to the codec's lower lowpass frequency at q 0.14. 

Let me reiterate that this is not a subjective statement of quality, but rather an objective statement regarding the frequency range of the resulting file, which is drastically and perhaps unpleasantly reduced when encoding below q 0.15. 

My initial question was whether or not an option exists with which the user can tweak or otherwise adjust the lowpass filter, which I believe to be overly aggressive for my content.
Cheers! 
Copy Restriction, Annulment, & Protection = C.R.A.P. -Supacon

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #212 –
First of all, thanks for this incredible release -- I registered with Hydrogenaudio just to say that.

Question:

I'm a registered/paid user of both Nero versions 6 and 7 but I have been unable to upgrade to Nero7 because I rely on dBPoweramp's Nero encoder for all my transcoding (typically, downloaded FLACs --> Nero AAC for my iPod), and dBPowerAmp's encoder module is incompatible with Nero 7: apparently this use causes Nero 7 to detect the use as trial-basis, even if you have the full product installed, and this is a known problem. So I have continued to encode with "only" Nero 6 installed. (Codec version: aacenc32.dll version 3.2.0.24)

I got your new command-line encoder to work with Fb2k, thanks to the tips on this board (yay!), but I was unable to get it to work with dBPowerAmp's command-line module. The Ahead CLI encoder barfed, claiming  that it wasn't getting proper WAV files, so I guess that the dBPowerAmp FLAC decoder doesn't result in the files spending any time as true WAV. :(

However, I don't encode very aggressively. Usually, I encode from FLAC to Nero AAC at 224kbps. So my main question is: should I sweat trying to get the newest encoder to work in my lifestyle? Is there a significant improvement at bitrates such as 224kbps which should convince me to leave v3.2.0.24 behind for the new, free encoder? And if so, the question I guess goes out to the board at large as to whether anyone has gotten this encoder to work in the dBPowerAmp world for FLAC input.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #213 –
Quote from: M on
Nothing wrong with proper command-line syntax, of course! But while I'm thoroughly comfortable with BatchEnc, if I want to turn a novice friend on to this encoder it would be nice if there was also a novice-friendly way to learn about it.

    - M.

Very soon I will release english version MPWGUI 2.1, it's extremly simple & user-firendly GUI supported:
decode: aac/mp3/ogg/wav/ac3/dts/aif/flac/mpa/mp2/mpc/wma/wv/ape... maybe I forgot something   
encode: ape/aac(LC/HE/HC/LTP - iTunes/NeroAAC/FAAC)/flac/mp3/mpc/AoTuV OGG/wav/wv(only lossless mode)
Current russian version (2.0) available at http://dsrt.boom.ru
First english version will be available at http://dsrt.boom.ru/down-eng.htm

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #215 –
@ Apesbrain: Works like a charm, thank you very much. So simple, and I tried and failed with mareo...

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #216 –
Quote from: Ivan Dimkovic on
Quote from: loophole on
You mentioned a linux version was in the works, does this mean an OS X version would be possible as well?
Code is itself cross-platform so everything is possible - but it needs time, right?

Since a GNU/Linux version is in the works, a simply recompile should make it available for Mac OS X as well...
/me wait for the Mac OS X version.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #217 –
I can only say, YES, we commited ourselves to full cross-platform support.

We are working very hard on getting the Linux version out and provide our valued Linux users with first-in-the-world native AAC highest-quality encoding support.

I will look into supporting other proposed platforms as soon as Linux is deployed.

I also wish to thank you all for such a huge support for this move - I really hope also this will also make our technology higher-quality with help from everyone here.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #218 –
Quote from: SNap on
Great encoder... very good work.
I have a question though. I saw some posts earlier that the NeroAacEnc.exe checks if the system has support for SSE SSE2 and SSE3... and uses the ones that are available ... does NeroAacEnc_sse2.exe do the same thing? (refering to SSE3 support) ...

If my system supports SSE3 instructions will the encoder make use of this? And if so... witch executable?.. the nonSSE or the other?


They both do it. SSE2 just requires at least SSE2 to run, but is a bit faster.


Quote from: arman68 on
Quote from: The Sheep of DEATH on
I've encoded a few files via the LC VBR profile at q 0.15 (for my PocketPC device), and I admit I'm shocked and amazed at the quality it delivers.  However, at q 0.14, the lowpass apparently drops sharply, and much to my chagrin, much of the audio's high frequency signal is cut off.


I have experimenting at low bitrates in LC profiles as well, comparing with iTunes 64kbps. Interestingly, what I found is I could almost always ABX the -q based VBR vs both iTunes and -2pass vbr, but not the others. The observation being that for the same (low) bitrate, -q always sounded much worse, with some rather nasty warbling artifacts.


Got a sample or something where this is obvious? I'd like to investigate.


Quote from: The Sheep of DEATH on
My initial question was whether or not an option exists with which the user can tweak or otherwise adjust the lowpass filter, which I believe to be overly aggressive for my content.
Cheers! 


I much prefer the correct solution and that is for us to do more tuning to find the optimal lowpass settings, and perhaps add some more intervals than the current, apparently too abrupt, switch. Low bitrate LC AAC is currently suboptimal, because we strongly recommend to use HE-AAC or HE-AACv2 at those bitrate, so LC AAC didn't have as much tuning in that area. But it is certainly something that can and will be improved.

Quote from: ozmosis82 on
Ivan or Garf:

Whenever the encoder is updated, will you let us know here? Or will we be able to just check the site (@ Nero) for it to tell us that an updated version has been posted?


I'll certainly give a note here...


Quote from: OJ_829 on
Is there a significant improvement at bitrates such as 224kbps which should convince me to leave v3.2.0.24 behind for the new, free encoder?


I would be amazed if the old encoder managed to cause an audible artifact at such a high bitrate, so we could keep massively improving it for 10 years and you'd never hear the improvement. However, if you're encoding at such a high rate, you are perhaps interested in inaudible improvements and then there might indeed be some improvements you'll never hear 


Quote from: krmathis on
Quote from: Ivan Dimkovic on
Quote from: loophole on
You mentioned a linux version was in the works, does this mean an OS X version would be possible as well?
Code is itself cross-platform so everything is possible - but it needs time, right? 

Since a GNU/Linux version is in the works, a simply recompile should make it available for Mac OS X as well...
/me wait for the Mac OS X version. 


...I don't think so. I saw some people on heise.de commenting that since the encoder is commandline, compiling a Linux version is just a matter of recompiling.

I'm afraid NOT  Please don't expect this too soon.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #219 –
how do i enable PNS mode?

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #220 –
I found the Encoder to be a little faster in SBR mode than in LC and even faster (twice as fast as LC) in SBR+PS  mode. Just interested, what's the explanation for that?

Regards; ilikedirt
 

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #221 –
Quote from: ilikedirtthe2nd on
I found the Encoder to be a little faster in SBR mode than in LC and even faster (twice as fast as LC) in SBR+PS  mode. Just interested, what's the explanation for that?

Regards; ilikedirt


SBR mode: encoder LC core (and most psychoacoustics) runs at half the sampling rate (22kHz), so it has half as much data to process.
SBR+PS: as above, but not it's mono, too, which means another halving.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #222 –
garf? how do i enable PNS?

the lowpassing in LC is horribly low.

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #223 –
Quote from: audioflex on
how do i enable PNS mode?
the lowpassing in LC is horribly low.

My thoughts exactly.  Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately for encoding newbies/novices), these advanced options are decided upon automatically by the encoder and remain hidden from the user.

Therefore, I'd like to suggest an "advanced settings" group of options in which the advanced user can modify settings according to individual preferences, source type, or for testing purposes.  Oggenc, for instance, has advanced features available for use via the "--advanced-encode-option" set, in which the advanced user can configure various high-level options such as impulse trigger and lowpass; the result of which being that I have tweaked these options according to what yielded the best average personal ABX result.  This is based on the principle that a single lowpass doesn't necessarily apply well to all types of audio (or, to a lesser degree, to each listener's personal preference)--it is generally accepted, for instance, that heavy rock music in vorbis (AoTUV) requires a lower lowpass than, for instance, light pop.  An advanced settings category like that present in vorbis (perhaps separately documented to keep newbies away) would potentially prove very useful for advanced users, myself among them.  (Not to brag ).

One more quick question: will this encoder be updated at fixed intervals (as it was in the past), or will it generally go through updates (and reuploads) as soon as improvements are made?  Judging by the responses in this thread and the fact that it was changed already in only a few days, I'm strongly inclined to believe the latter, but I just wanted to be clear on this.

Again, thanks for the free encoder and I wish you the best of luck in upcoming improvements!
DeathTheSheep
Copy Restriction, Annulment, & Protection = C.R.A.P. -Supacon

Nero Releases FREE Reference Quality MPEG-4 Audio Encoder

Reply #224 –
I'd like to congrats Ivan and the Nero Digital team (I already did it by mail), but I must say that I'm truly shocked by this announcement:

Quote from: Ivan Dimkovic on
* Crystal Clear, Award Winning Sound Quality at every compression ratio and bit rate!


If I understand correctly, this encoder:
1/ is crystal clear at every bitrate. Did someone listened to 16 kbps encodings and confirmed the clarity? IIRC, the latest 48 kbps explicitely shows that 48 kbps (thus lower bitrate) encodings are very far from "crystal clarity".
2/ is Award Winning at every bitrate. Could someone give me links to these awards? The only "award" competition I know is the 48 kbps, and this test ended with no winner at all.

I recall that the board's Term of Service are very explicit on the following point:
8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must -- to the best of their ability -- provide objective support for their claims.

May I insist and ask for a link pointing to this full bitrate range award in order to back up the initial claims?
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz