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Topic: Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03 (Read 45513 times) previous topic - next topic
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Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

When using the newest foobar2000 .9 RC (2006-02-21), tagging my files with ID3V2 tags causes the fields to show up in iTunes v6.03 with squares at the end of every field. Changing to ID3V1 removes the squares (which I'm guessing is some kind of UTF incompatibility)

Just thought I'd let you guys know, even though it probably is a problem on Apples end--I doubt they'll change anything on their end. Could there be an option to use a more compatible tag mode?

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #1
Quote
When using the newest foobar2000 .9 RC (2006-02-21), tagging my files with ID3V2 tags causes the fields to show up in iTunes v6.03 with squares at the end of every field. Changing to ID3V1 removes the squares (which I'm guessing is some kind of UTF incompatibility)

Just thought I'd let you guys know, even though it probably is a problem on Apples end--I doubt they'll change anything on their end. Could there be an option to use a more compatible tag mode?
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The id3v2 tagging used is already directed at maximum compatability and you`re right about that it's a problem on apple's side. Read [a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=41436&st=0&p=364353&#entry364353]here[/url] for an official statement.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #2
What is the real problem? That "official statement" is rather light on technical details. It says that it's iTunes' fault, but fails to say what the actual problem is.

If you're going to blame a software product for not adhering to specs, it would be extremely helpful to say in what way they are not adhering to those specs, so that the people who write that software product have a chance to actually fix their product.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #3
Perhaps this and the following post in that thread clear things more up. The problem itunes has with tag reading seems to be related to unsync (i don't know the technical aspects).

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #4
We're still working on improving software compatibility as far as it is possible without violating the ID3v2.4 specification, but we've documented multiple blatant bugs in iTunes ID3v2 support that we can't dodge without violating the standards ourselves.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #5
The Link: that post doesn't really make any sense. Yes, the BOM will require unsyncronization (FF FE becomes FF 00 FE), but that would throw the entire string into chaos if iTunes didn't understand unsyncronization but did understand Unicode. And it really wouldn't explain an extra weird character being at the end of the string either.

Peter: Where are these bugs documented? I'd like to have a look through them, try to reproduce, that sort of thing.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #6
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Peter: Where are these bugs documented? I'd like to have a look through them, try to reproduce, that sort of thing.

The most annoying things with iTunes are:
  • it relies on unsync flag of ID3v2 tag header, rather than of ID3v2 frame header. We solved this already by writing unsync flag to tag header.
  • it seems that iTunes won't read ID3v2 frames which are after the APIC frame

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #7
Quote
When using the newest foobar2000 .9 RC (2006-02-21), tagging my files with ID3V2 tags causes the fields to show up in iTunes v6.03 with squares at the end of every field. Changing to ID3V1 removes the squares (which I'm guessing is some kind of UTF incompatibility)

Squares in tags are really strange and unexpected. Can you send me an example file to my contact email address?

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #8
Here the id3v2.4 tags are shown with a square at the end of every tag in itunes, too. But in the file information box they are displayed correctly without any square.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #9
Quote
Here the id3v2.4 tags are shown with a square at the end of every tag in itunes, too. But in the file information box they are displayed correctly without any square.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=366937"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

"Not here". Are you sure that you're using both the latest iTunes 6.0.3 and tagged your files with foobar2000 0.9 RC?

If yes, an example file is still welcome.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #10
Here is a picture of the problem:

In the "Get Info" dialog box, the squares do not appear. And yes, I'm sure that I'm using the newest versions of both pieces of software.
Here's the offending file


So have these documented bugs been submitted to Apple?

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #11


No problems here. Maybe there are differences between german and english iTunes.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #12
Same problem here ....

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #13
Quote
The most annoying things with iTunes are:
  • it relies on unsync flag of ID3v2 tag header, rather than of ID3v2 frame header. We solved this already by writing unsync flag to tag header.
  • it seems that iTunes won't read ID3v2 frames which are after the APIC frame

Just noticed that iTunes writes an invalid ID3v2 tag if you convert the tag to ID3v2.4.
It writes the ID3v2 frame size as normal integer instead of an unsynced integer.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #14
Presumably iTune 6.0.4 does nothing to fix the above? (I'm on dialup damnit, I'll test later though if no response)
Techspot.com Editor

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #15
I believe the screenshotted bug is due to the encoding foobar2000 uses to encode id3 tags (UTF-8?), versus other software which use ISO-8859-1.

I had the same problem on my Rio Karma (when it still worked)

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #16
So I get that the problem is with how iTunes is handling the tags, but I don't think I see a good solution.  I am torn between my desire to use ID3V2 and wanting my tagged mp3's to show up correctly on my iPod.

What is a good a easy solution?

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #17
Almost all my files show these squares:



It's very annoying (not that I use iTunes that often).
we was young an' full of beans

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #18
if you use IDv1 tags, that box won't show up. however, IDv1 tags have a limit of 30 characters for each field. so to minimize the number of files with those boxes, i took all the files that had album names and/or titles longer than 30 characters and gave them IDv2 tags and gave the rest of my library IDv1 tags. once i did that, i had only a few songs with boxes to take care of itunes. it'd be nice if foobar's IDv2 tags were 100% compatible with itunes, but i guess we can't have our cake and eat it too.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #19
it'd be nice if foobar's IDv2 tags were 100% compatible with itunes, but i guess we can't have our cake and eat it too.


It should be the other way around, iTunes should be ID3 2.4 compatible and not foobar compatible to some half done implementation.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #20

it'd be nice if foobar's IDv2 tags were 100% compatible with itunes, but i guess we can't have our cake and eat it too.


It should be the other way around, iTunes should be ID3 2.4 compatible and not foobar compatible to some half done implementation.

i just meant it'd be nice if they worked together.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #21
So I get that the problem is with how iTunes is handling the tags, but I don't think I see a good solution.  I am torn between my desire to use ID3V2 and wanting my tagged mp3's to show up correctly on my iPod.

What is a good a easy solution?


Wait for Apple to fix their tag reader, or don't use Apple's tag reader.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #22
Did anybody ever figure out the cause of these squares? I'd still like technical info on why this is occurring, which is nowhere to be found.

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #23
Did anybody ever figure out the cause of these squares? I'd still like technical info on why this is occurring, which is nowhere to be found.


Sorry, don't have time to reply properly, but quickly see: http://www.id3.org/id3v2.4.0-changes.txt

As I remember the frame sync byte is misinterpretted by iTunes.  I may be getting this slightly wrong.

+Reardon

Incompatibility id3v2: .9RC vs. iTunes 6.03

Reply #24
Does anyone have any more info on this? An easy workaround without using itunes or v1 only for this bug would be nice.

The only reason I care, is to keep the tags readable when I pass my legal mp3s to my friends.

 
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