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  • guruboolez
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
This moment was awaited for a long time, MPEG-4 lossless audio (ALS) specifications are now ready. Standardization were finalized recently and it was announced in Japan by the NTT company (source: here and in french)

MAIN FEATURES:

• Support for PCM resolutions of up to 32-bit at arbitrary sampling rate (including 16/44.1, 16/48, 24/48, 24/96, 24/192).
• Multi-channel / multi-track support for up to 65536 channels (including 5.1 surround).
• Support for 32-bit IEEE floating point audio data.
• Optional storage in MP4 file format (allows multiplex with video).

more info: here
download page: here

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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #1
I'm currently running a comparison between the freely available MPEG-4 ALS encoder and other popular lossless tools.

My table:
- MPEG-4 {default}
- flac 1.1.2 -8
- WavPack 4.3 -fx5
- WavPack 4.3 -x4
- Monkey's Audio 3.99 "fast" /-c1000
- Monkey's Audio 3.99 "normal" / -c2000


Files are my 150 reference full tracks (=16 hours of music), classical music only.

Code: [Select]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MPEG-4      flac -8    WPack -fx5  WPack -x4  MAC 1000    MAC 2000
---------------------------------------------------------------------
       |          |          |          |          |
614,28  |  633,87  |  628,72  |  618,27  |  616,05  |  603,20
---------------------------------------------------------------------
       |          |          |          |          |
550,7  |  575,7  |  566,3  |  560,2  |  562,3  |  549,8
824,9  |  821,5  |  862,6  |  837,8  |  825,1  |  790,3
902,1  |  904,0  |  906,2  |  875,4  |  868,6  |  842,5
867,1  |  870,9  |  878,8  |  867,9  |  864,5  |  852,4
717,0  |  742,3  |  767,9  |  740,1  |  731,1  |  703,4
307,6  |  347,4  |  336,1  |  333,4  |  331,5  |  321,5
619,9  |  633,2  |  628,1  |  619,2  |  614,1  |  607,0
581,3  |  592,2  |  591,0  |  584,4  |  582,1  |  566,6
515,8  |  530,4  |  523,4  |  520,4  |  518,4  |  515,0
552,1  |  554,3  |  569,5  |  557,8  |  560,5  |  542,7
591,3  |  611,3  |  599,5  |  592,7  |  591,1  |  584,5
462,9  |  486,2  |  472,0  |  466,9  |  465,0  |  456,4
690,5  |  729,9  |  756,4  |  713,2  |  707,7  |  664,7
599,6  |  614,0  |  608,0  |  599,1  |  594,6  |  585,7
566,1  |  583,8  |  577,4  |  565,5  |  561,2  |  552,7
650,7  |  657,4  |  665,0  |  652,3  |  648,8  |  634,4
474,3  |  503,9  |  498,2  |  485,0  |  476,2  |  459,5
649,1  |  665,5  |  671,9  |  654,6  |  652,5  |  640,1
584,2  |  607,9  |  594,2  |  587,0  |  587,3  |  577,1
549,1  |  581,7  |  561,7  |  556,8  |  556,1  |  542,5
679,3  |  695,4  |  688,3  |  681,1  |  681,0  |  672,0
630,1  |  644,3  |  642,9  |  633,9  |  630,9  |  618,6
505,1  |  533,8  |  520,3  |  509,0  |  508,5  |  499,0
484,9  |  509,5  |  496,9  |  492,2  |  489,4  |  483,5
354,1  |  373,6  |  372,8  |  364,9  |  359,1  |  349,4
487,4  |  508,5  |  495,6  |  491,3  |  490,4  |  486,0
674,9  |  686,5  |  679,6  |  673,7  |  669,6  |  663,9
507,7  |  532,8  |  519,4  |  511,3  |  507,6  |  499,5
463,2  |  486,4  |  471,5  |  468,1  |  463,1  |  457,8
761,2  |  774,0  |  771,9  |  761,2  |  759,5  |  749,5
575,3  |  597,7  |  585,5  |  576,3  |  574,5  |  560,5
537,3  |  555,1  |  548,5  |  540,9  |  537,1  |  524,1
621,0  |  648,7  |  632,1  |  620,0  |  620,3  |  607,9
626,7  |  635,8  |  643,8  |  626,8  |  627,7  |  614,2
638,8  |  656,4  |  653,8  |  639,4  |  637,9  |  625,3
859,0  |  865,5  |  871,8  |  859,2  |  860,2  |  846,1
762,1  |  777,1  |  772,7  |  763,0  |  764,6  |  754,9
739,6  |  758,1  |  759,5  |  745,1  |  750,0  |  721,6
450,2  |  477,5  |  463,0  |  459,5  |  457,2  |  449,6
668,5  |  696,1  |  692,6  |  678,4  |  676,1  |  658,6
850,7  |  865,9  |  871,6  |  855,4  |  859,4  |  841,9
564,9  |  589,9  |  576,1  |  568,4  |  568,2  |  558,2
553,0  |  572,1  |  564,0  |  556,1  |  555,5  |  545,1
538,1  |  555,5  |  546,5  |  537,9  |  534,8  |  527,0
526,4  |  552,5  |  533,5  |  526,6  |  524,3  |  516,6
734,1  |  746,4  |  743,8  |  735,4  |  733,8  |  726,2
709,4  |  720,1  |  722,0  |  712,4  |  709,7  |  698,0
692,4  |  712,9  |  705,8  |  693,8  |  692,4  |  676,5
462,9  |  469,4  |  467,3  |  463,2  |  456,9  |  452,6
844,3  |  849,8  |  844,5  |  841,6  |  839,6  |  833,8
608,1  |  625,6  |  622,8  |  612,5  |  612,4  |  599,0
656,8  |  674,9  |  664,6  |  655,3  |  651,2  |  643,7
676,3  |  694,3  |  684,5  |  677,9  |  677,0  |  666,8
619,1  |  654,7  |  631,2  |  620,1  |  621,6  |  612,2
891,1  |  897,2  |  894,8  |  888,6  |  888,0  |  882,8
691,7  |  707,5  |  696,1  |  691,0  |  688,4  |  683,8
770,5  |  790,1  |  786,6  |  770,8  |  772,1  |  762,7
744,1  |  753,3  |  745,7  |  739,2  |  736,8  |  731,7
748,6  |  759,5  |  748,5  |  742,7  |  740,1  |  735,3
668,2  |  688,7  |  673,9  |  668,5  |  668,7  |  661,1
744,0  |  750,1  |  758,9  |  745,8  |  744,1  |  723,9
781,5  |  785,5  |  783,3  |  775,9  |  773,0  |  769,0
825,8  |  843,9  |  847,4  |  827,1  |  828,7  |  811,9
743,9  |  761,5  |  764,5  |  755,4  |  751,9  |  731,4
790,7  |  798,1  |  794,7  |  788,6  |  786,9  |  778,7
559,1  |  565,7  |  562,3  |  558,7  |  552,3  |  549,0
509,4  |  525,8  |  516,7  |  511,0  |  505,7  |  499,5
503,9  |  523,2  |  513,2  |  506,5  |  500,9  |  494,9
617,5  |  634,3  |  619,3  |  617,4  |  614,2  |  603,3
596,5  |  607,0  |  605,1  |  598,6  |  593,1  |  584,5
521,0  |  537,0  |  534,7  |  527,2  |  524,1  |  512,2
747,6  |  760,6  |  753,0  |  747,1  |  744,7  |  735,1
585,2  |  597,6  |  594,0  |  584,2  |  581,6  |  569,8
563,8  |  568,8  |  572,6  |  564,1  |  558,6  |  549,2
668,8  |  667,8  |  663,8  |  656,1  |  652,4  |  646,4
761,9  |  771,8  |  770,6  |  760,3  |  758,4  |  749,1
857,7  |  866,0  |  867,6  |  855,7  |  852,7  |  842,4
956,8  |  960,4  |  968,2  |  942,2  |  940,6  |  920,7
941,6  |  946,0  |  954,8  |  942,0  |  940,5  |  931,0
736,1  |  753,5  |  783,8  |  746,4  |  743,2  |  715,2
821,3  |  830,4  |  834,7  |  821,7  |  819,5  |  808,5
651,8  |  685,0  |  671,2  |  656,2  |  656,8  |  640,4
514,5  |  536,7  |  519,8  |  517,3  |  512,6  |  504,6
500,1  |  531,7  |  511,4  |  505,2  |  506,0  |  494,8
641,1  |  675,9  |  647,7  |  642,8  |  643,0  |  631,1
527,1  |  540,2  |  542,7  |  527,1  |  520,7  |  510,1
648,9  |  667,7  |  663,0  |  653,8  |  651,1  |  639,1
543,4  |  576,4  |  561,5  |  550,7  |  549,5  |  531,2
506,9  |  557,0  |  525,1  |  516,4  |  519,9  |  501,0
497,8  |  515,7  |  514,4  |  502,6  |  497,3  |  478,0
359,5  |  411,7  |  384,9  |  374,7  |  379,9  |  366,2
395,1  |  445,1  |  423,4  |  413,1  |  412,4  |  387,6
433,9  |  501,5  |  479,4  |  451,4  |  455,4  |  430,2
415,2  |  445,5  |  425,6  |  421,4  |  421,6  |  413,7
385,8  |  408,1  |  398,0  |  400,2  |  396,6  |  387,7
385,8  |  408,1  |  398,0  |  400,2  |  396,6  |  387,7
642,4  |  658,1  |  679,2  |  651,9  |  660,2  |  632,6
550,2  |  559,1  |  570,9  |  557,2  |  553,0  |  537,1
673,0  |  698,4  |  697,5  |  696,1  |  688,8  |  662,5
774,9  |  815,7  |  832,0  |  782,6  |  797,7  |  761,7
484,6  |  495,6  |  484,8  |  482,7  |  476,4  |  466,9
652,5  |  657,5  |  661,6  |  651,7  |  644,8  |  620,7
585,1  |  603,8  |  589,4  |  583,1  |  579,1  |  569,7
457,6  |  485,9  |  471,1  |  454,0  |  448,2  |  436,7
657,5  |  668,5  |  666,1  |  660,4  |  654,1  |  649,1
544,1  |  554,4  |  563,4  |  550,9  |  546,0  |  528,8
516,0  |  527,0  |  517,9  |  515,8  |  508,4  |  502,7
566,1  |  580,0  |  572,3  |  566,5  |  560,5  |  553,3
736,4  |  742,9  |  751,8  |  742,6  |  739,8  |  718,9
373,4  |  398,0  |  385,0  |  389,8  |  376,6  |  367,4
460,2  |  482,3  |  476,7  |  466,1  |  465,5  |  451,7
516,8  |  536,5  |  533,1  |  526,6  |  524,3  |  508,0
543,7  |  571,5  |  554,6  |  548,3  |  546,8  |  536,2
486,8  |  507,0  |  503,5  |  494,2  |  482,1  |  468,0
749,7  |  758,5  |  759,3  |  751,3  |  743,9  |  727,1
596,6  |  613,3  |  607,4  |  604,7  |  593,9  |  582,1
684,5  |  698,1  |  690,9  |  683,3  |  682,0  |  674,8
454,7  |  484,9  |  473,4  |  468,0  |  462,6  |  450,2
349,2  |  384,9  |  379,4  |  368,5  |  369,4  |  353,5
435,4  |  487,0  |  470,1  |  455,6  |  459,7  |  436,4
632,4  |  658,7  |  647,1  |  636,6  |  635,4  |  625,3
630,2  |  659,4  |  640,2  |  632,9  |  631,8  |  620,7
255,3  |  276,4  |  269,8  |  273,0  |  262,8  |  259,6
825,0  |  836,8  |  836,3  |  823,0  |  822,0  |  809,9
597,3  |  618,9  |  605,6  |  599,8  |  603,1  |  595,4
741,5  |  759,3  |  750,3  |  741,6  |  740,4  |  733,5
639,9  |  663,7  |  650,9  |  639,6  |  639,4  |  627,9
437,3  |  453,0  |  446,2  |  442,4  |  439,1  |  434,5
687,1  |  698,7  |  700,8  |  687,0  |  684,6  |  672,4
705,2  |  716,0  |  724,5  |  708,8  |  703,2  |  692,1
542,3  |  567,9  |  554,9  |  546,3  |  542,8  |  530,3
630,3  |  669,0  |  655,9  |  639,2  |  641,2  |  620,2
687,8  |  733,6  |  722,8  |  694,6  |  700,9  |  678,3
647,9  |  686,2  |  663,6  |  652,3  |  654,2  |  643,1
592,4  |  652,6  |  626,1  |  606,5  |  614,9  |  586,5
579,8  |  615,6  |  595,3  |  582,5  |  577,7  |  564,9
450,3  |  474,1  |  474,7  |  459,1  |  463,4  |  444,6
630,3  |  655,2  |  647,3  |  634,5  |  635,0  |  623,8
576,8  |  585,0  |  584,3  |  574,9  |  570,8  |  559,3
642,5  |  657,0  |  659,4  |  644,4  |  646,5  |  631,8
756,5  |  770,6  |  772,3  |  759,3  |  762,8  |  749,6
570,5  |  585,0  |  580,1  |  573,5  |  566,4  |  552,8
567,4  |  589,6  |  574,6  |  572,0  |  566,9  |  557,0
847,2  |  850,6  |  852,6  |  846,4  |  843,4  |  833,6
579,6  |  582,6  |  598,7  |  585,2  |  581,2  |  560,1
579,8  |  589,8  |  592,6  |  580,1  |  578,1  |  567,6
708,1  |  722,0  |  715,5  |  706,3  |  704,2  |  695,6
526,1  |  551,5  |  546,9  |  533,8  |  530,4  |  514,0
701,0  |  727,1  |  732,1  |  713,0  |  708,6  |  688,9
608,3  |  637,7  |  624,7  |  612,0  |  612,6  |  595,7
---------------------------------------------------------------------
       |          |          |          |          |
614,28  |  633,87  |  628,72  |  618,27  |  616,05  |  603,20
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MPEG-4    flac -8    WPack-fx5  WPack -x4    MAC 1000    MAC 2000
---------------------------------------------------------------------


The comparison is meaningless without encoding and decoding speed. But I didn't find any decoder for measuring speed, and I'm running the encoding task on a laptop which is handicaped by a slow HDD. The comparison is just "informative".

EDIT: Monkey's audio bitrate were first wrong; they were edited one hour later. Sorry...
  • Last Edit: 31 December, 2005, 02:42:25 PM by guruboolez

  • guruboolez
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #2
Usage (for interested people):

Code: [Select]
mp4alsRM16 - MPEG-4 Audio Lossless Coding (ALS), Reference Model Codec 
 Version 16 for Win32
 (c) 2003-2005 Tilman Liebchen, Technical University of Berlin
   E-mail: liebchen@nue.tu-berlin.de
 Portions by Yuriy A. Reznik, RealNetworks, Inc.
   E-mail: yreznik@real.com
 Portions by Koichi Sugiura, NTT Advanced Technology corporation
   E-mail: ksugiura@mitaka.ntt-at.co.jp
 Portions by Takehiro Moriya, Noboru Harada and Yutaka Kamamoto, NTT
   E-mail: t.moriya@ieee.org, {n-harada,kamamoto}@theory.brl.ntt.co.jp

Usage: mp4alsRM16 [options] infile [outfile]

 In compression mode, infile must be a PCM file (wav, aif, or raw format)
 or a 32-bit floating point file (normalized, wav format type 3).
 Mono, stereo, and multichannel files with up to 65536 channels and up to
 32-bit resolution are supported at any sampling frequency.
 In decompression mode (-x), infile is the compressed file (.als).
 If outfile is not specified, the name of the output file will be generated
 by replacing the extension of the input file (wav <-> als).
 If outfile is '-', the output will be written to stdout. If infile is '-',
 the input will be read from stdin, and outfile has to be specified.

General Options:
 -c : Check accuracy by decoding the whole file after encoding.
 -d : Delete input file after completion.
 -h : Help (this message)
 -v : Verbose mode (file info, processing time)
 -x : Extract (all options except -v are ignored)
Encoding Options:
 -7 : Set parameters for optimum compression (except LTP, MCC, RLSLMS)
 -a : Adaptive prediction order
 -b : Use BGMC codes for prediction residual (default: use Rice codes)
 -e : Exclude CRC calculation
 -f#: ACF/MLZ mode: # = 0-7, -f6/-f7 requires ACF gain value
 -g#: Block switching level: 0 = off (default), 5 = maximum
 -i : Independent stereo coding (turn off joint stereo coding)
 -l : Check for empty LSBs (e.g. 20-bit files)
 -m#: Rearrange channel configuration (example: -m1,2,4,5,3)
 -n#: Frame length: 0 = auto (default), max = 65536
 -o#: Prediction order (default = 10), max = 1023
 -p : Use long-term prediction
 -r#: Random access (multiples of 0.1 sec), -1 = each frame, 0 = off (default)
 -s#: Multi-channel correlation (#=1-65536, jointly code every # channels)
      # must be a divisor of number of channels, otherwise -s is ignored
 -t#: Two methods mode (Joint Stereo and Multi-channel correlation)
      # must be a divisor of number of channels
 -u#: Random access info location, 0 = frames (default), 1 = header, 2 = none
 -z#: RLSLMS mode (default = 0: no RLSLMS mode,  1-quick, 2-medium 3-best )
Audio file support:
 -R : Raw audio file (use -C, -W, -F and -M to specifiy format)
 -S#: Sample type: 0 = integer (default), 1 = float
 -C#: Number of Channels (default = 2)
 -W#: Word length in bits per sample (default = 16)
 -F#: Sampling frequency in Hz (default = 44100)
 -M : 'MSByte first' byte order (otherwise 'LSByte first')
 -H#: Header size in bytes (default = 0)
 -T#: Trailer size in bytes (default = 0)
 -I : Show info only, no (de)compression (add -x for compressed files)

Examples:
 mp4alsRM16 -v sound.wav
 mp4alsRM16 -n1024 -i -o20 sound.wav
 mp4alsRM16 - sound.als < sound.wav
 mp4alsRM16 -x sound.als
 mp4alsRM16 -x sound.als - > sound.wav
 mp4alsRM16 -I -x sound.als



with foobar2000 (encoding only at the moment):
• extension: als
• parameters: -v %s %d

MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #3
Quote
I'm currently running a comparison between the freely available MPEG-4 ALS encoder and other popular lossless tools.

My preliminary table:
- WavPack 4.3 -fx5
- MPEG-4 {default}
(other formats/setting are coming)

Files are my 150 reference full tracks (=16 hours of music), classical music only.

Code: [Select]
         WavPack   MPEG-4

A01...    566,3    550,7    -2,8 %
A02...    862,6    824,9    -4,4 %
A03...    906,2    902,1    -0,5 %
A04...    878,8    867,1    -1,3 %
A05...    767,9    717,0    -6,6 %
E01...    336,1    307,6    -8,5 %
E02...    628,1    619,9    -1,3 %
E03...    591,0    581,3    -1,7 %
E04...    523,4    515,8    -1,5 %
E05...    569,5    552,1    -3,1 %
E06...    599,5    591,3    -1,4 %
E07...    472,0    462,9    -1,9 %
E08...    756,4    690,5    -8,7 %
E09...    608,0    599,6    -1,4 %
E10...    577,4    566,1    -2,0 %
E11...    665,0    650,7    -2,2 %
E12...    498,2    474,3    -4,8 %
E13...    671,9    649,1    -3,4 %
E14...    594,2    584,2    -1,7 %
E15...    561,7    549,1    -2,3 %
E16...    688,3    679,3    -1,3 %
E17...    642,9    630,1    -2,0 %
E18...    520,3    505,1    -2,9 %
E19...    496,9    484,9    -2,4 %
E20...    372,8    354,1    -5,0 %
E21...    495,6    487,4    -1,7 %
E22...    679,6    674,9    -0,7 %
E23...    519,4    507,7    -2,3 %
E24...    471,5    463,2    -1,8 %
E25...    771,9    761,2    -1,4 %
E26...    585,5    575,3    -1,8 %
E27...    548,5    537,3    -2,0 %
E28...    632,1    621,0    -1,7 %
E29...    643,8    626,7    -2,6 %
E30...    653,8    638,8    -2,3 %
E31...    871,8    859,0    -1,5 %
E32...    772,7    762,1    -1,4 %
E33...    759,5    739,6    -2,6 %
E34...    463,0    450,2    -2,8 %
E35...    692,6    668,5    -3,5 %
E36...    871,6    850,7    -2,4 %
E37...    576,1    564,9    -2,0 %
E38...    564,0    553,0    -1,9 %
E39...    546,5    538,1    -1,5 %
E40...    533,5    526,4    -1,3 %
E41...    743,8    734,1    -1,3 %
E42...    722,0    709,4    -1,7 %
E43...    705,8    692,4    -1,9 %
E44...    467,3    462,9    -0,9 %
E45...    844,5    844,3    0,0 %
E46...    622,8    608,1    -2,4 %
E47...    664,6    656,8    -1,2 %
E48...    684,5    676,3    -1,2 %
E49...    631,2    619,1    -1,9 %
E50...    894,8    891,1    -0,4 %
E51...    696,1    691,7    -0,6 %
E52...    786,6    770,5    -2,1 %
E53...    745,7    744,1    -0,2 %
E54...    748,5    748,6    0,0 %
E55...    673,9    668,2    -0,8 %
E56...    758,9    744,0    -2,0 %
E57...    783,3    781,5    -0,2 %
E58...    847,4    825,8    -2,5 %
E59...    764,5    743,9    -2,7 %
E60...    794,7    790,7    -0,5 %
S01...    562,3    559,1    -0,6 %
S02...    516,7    509,4    -1,4 %
S03...    513,2    503,9    -1,8 %
S04...    619,3    617,5    -0,3 %
S05...    605,1    596,5    -1,4 %
S06...    534,7    521,0    -2,6 %
S07...    753,0    747,6    -0,7 %
S08...    594,0    585,2    -1,5 %
S09...    572,6    563,8    -1,5 %
S10...    663,8    668,8    0,8 %
S11...    770,6    761,9    -1,1 %
S12...    867,6    857,7    -1,1 %
S13...    968,2    956,8    -1,2 %
S14...    954,8    941,6    -1,4 %
S15...    783,8    736,1    -6,1 %
S16...    834,7    821,3    -1,6 %
S17...    671,2    651,8    -2,9 %
S18...    519,8    514,5    -1,0 %
S19...    511,4    500,1    -2,2 %
S20...    647,7    641,1    -1,0 %
S21...    542,7    527,1    -2,9 %
S22...    663,0    648,9    -2,1 %
S23...    561,5    543,4    -3,2 %
S24...    525,1    506,9    -3,5 %
S25...    514,4    497,8    -3,2 %
S26...    384,9    359,5    -6,6 %
S27...    423,4    395,1    -6,7 %
S28...    479,4    433,9    -9,5 %
S29...    425,6    415,2    -2,4 %
S30...    398,0    385,8    -3,1 %
S31...    398,0    385,8    -3,1 %
S32...    679,2    642,4    -5,4 %
S33...    570,9    550,2    -3,6 %
S34...    697,5    673,0    -3,5 %
S35...    832,0    774,9    -6,9 %
S36...    484,8    484,6    0,0 %
S37...    661,6    652,5    -1,4 %
S38...    589,4    585,1    -0,7 %
S39...    471,1    457,6    -2,9 %
S40...    666,1    657,5    -1,3 %
S41...    563,4    544,1    -3,4 %
S42...    517,9    516,0    -0,4 %
S43...    572,3    566,1    -1,1 %
S44...    751,8    736,4    -2,1 %
S45...    385,0    373,4    -3,0 %
S46...    476,7    460,2    -3,5 %
S47...    533,1    516,8    -3,1 %
S48...    554,6    543,7    -2,0 %
S49...    503,5    486,8    -3,3 %
S50...    759,3    749,7    -1,3 %
S51...    607,4    596,6    -1,8 %
S52...    690,9    684,5    -0,9 %
S53...    473,4    454,7    -4,0 %
S54...    379,4    349,2    -8,0 %
S55...    470,1    435,4    -7,4 %
V01...    647,1    632,4    -2,3 %
V02...    640,2    630,2    -1,6 %
V03...    269,8    255,3    -5,3 %
V04...    836,3    825,0    -1,4 %
V05...    605,6    597,3    -1,4 %
V06...    750,3    741,5    -1,2 %
V07...    650,9    639,9    -1,7 %
V08...    446,2    437,3    -2,0 %
V09...    700,8    687,1    -2,0 %
V10...    724,5    705,2    -2,7 %
V11...    554,9    542,3    -2,3 %
V12...    655,9    630,3    -3,9 %
V13...    722,8    687,8    -4,8 %
V14...    663,6    647,9    -2,4 %
V15...    626,1    592,4    -5,4 %
V16...    595,3    579,8    -2,6 %
V17...    474,7    450,3    -5,1 %
V18...    647,3    630,3    -2,6 %
V19...    584,3    576,8    -1,3 %
V20...    659,4    642,5    -2,6 %
V21...    772,3    756,5    -2,1 %
V22...    580,1    570,5    -1,7 %
V23...    574,6    567,4    -1,3 %
V24...    852,6    847,2    -0,6 %
V25...    598,7    579,6    -3,2 %
V26...    592,6    579,8    -2,2 %
V27...    715,5    708,1    -1,0 %
V28...    546,9    526,1    -3,8 %
V29...    732,1    701,0    -4,2 %
V30...    624,7    608,3    -2,6 %
________________________________
          628,72    614,28  -2,3 %


The comparison is meaningless with encoding and decoding speed. But I didn't find any decoder for measuring speed, and I'm running the encoding task on a laptop which is handicaped by a slow HDD. The comparison is just "informative".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=352885\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is just fantastic news!

*cheers*

  • skelly831
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #4
Scince this MPEG-4 lossless audio is standardized, does this mean that hardware support will be at least more abundant than the currently available players with any kind of lossless support?
we was young an' full of beans

  • guruboolez
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #5
Quote
Scince this MPEG-4 lossless audio is standardized, does this mean that hardware support will be at least more abundant than the currently available players with any kind of lossless support?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352894"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Only if manufacturers are interested to implement lossless. And MPEG-4 ALS have to fight against other formats like:
- Apple Lossless
- WMA Lossless
- Sony's lossless
- FLAC

N.B. Monkey's normal has been add in the table.

  • Busemann
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #6
Pretty cool. The big question now is who will adopt it... Let's hope Apple Lossless was just a stop-gap solution

  • skelly831
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #7
Quote
Quote
Scince this MPEG-4 lossless audio is standardized, does this mean that hardware support will be at least more abundant than the currently available players with any kind of lossless support?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352894"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Only if manufacturers are interested to implement lossless. And MPEG-4 ALS have to fight against other formats like:
- Apple Lossless
- WMA Lossless
- Sony's lossless
- FLAC

N.B. Monkey's normal has been add in the table.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352896"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Right, I don't see those companies abandoning their proprietary formats.
we was young an' full of beans

  • HotshotGG
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #8
Yes, it uses BSAC (Bit-slice arithmetic coding). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't ALS hybrid codec that would be the purpose of BSAC? When I read the Research Paper on it that was the impression I got or am I missing something here? Is that something different.

Quote
Right, I don't see those companies abandoning their proprietary formats.


If there is money to be made from it they sure as hell won't at the cost of patenting some other general coding technique used in data compression.
  • Last Edit: 28 December, 2005, 06:25:18 PM by HotshotGG
budding I.T professional

  • Zoom
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #9
I tried a few encodings just to see the kind of compression & speed to expect. I put the encoder on verbose to get the speed and bitrate. I put comparison bitrates next to the "Average Rate" row, the comparisons are FLAC 1.1.2 at compression level -8.
My computer is fairly modern, it consists of:

Athlon 64 3500+ (2200MHz)
2GB PC3200 RAM (128 Bit Dual Channel)
Encoding From: 36GB SATA HDD
Encoding To    : 250GB SATA HDD


Code: [Select]
------------------------------------------------------
mp4als -v (default)
------------------------------------------------------
PCM file: 01.dixie chicks - i can love you better.wav
ALS file: 01.dixie chicks - i can love you better.als

Encoding... 100% done

Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch
Bit rate    : 1411.2 kbit/s
Playing time : 233.9 sec
PCM file size: 41254124 bytes
ALS file size: 29225703 bytes
Compr. ratio : 1.412 (70.84 %)
Average bps  : 11.335
Average rate : 999.7 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 1007 kbit/s ]

Processing took 6.77 sec (34.6 x real-time)

------------------------------------------------------
mp4als -v (default)
------------------------------------------------------
PCM file: 01.dntel - (this is) the dream of evan and chan.wav
ALS file: 01.dntel - (this is) the dream of evan and chan.als

Encoding... 100% done

Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch
Bit rate    : 1411.2 kbit/s
Playing time : 344.9 sec
PCM file size: 60846284 bytes
ALS file size: 41706162 bytes
Compr. ratio : 1.459 (68.54 %)
Average bps  : 10.967
Average rate : 967.3 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 939 kbit/s ]

Processing took 9.88 sec (34.9 x real-time)
------------------------------------------------------
mp4als -v (default)
------------------------------------------------------
PCM file: 01.enya - only time.wav
ALS file: 01.enya - only time.als

Encoding... 100% done

Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch
Bit rate    : 1411.2 kbit/s
Playing time : 218.0 sec
PCM file size: 38462300 bytes
ALS file size: 23376405 bytes
Compr. ratio : 1.645 (60.78 %)
Average bps  : 9.724
Average rate : 857.7 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 874 kbit/s ]

Processing took 6.31 sec (34.5 x real-time)
------------------------------------------------------
mp4als -v (default)
------------------------------------------------------
PCM file: 01.eric clapton - tears in heaven.wav
ALS file: 01.eric clapton - tears in heaven.als

Encoding... 100% done

Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch
Bit rate    : 1411.2 kbit/s
Playing time : 273.1 sec
PCM file size: 48180764 bytes
ALS file size: 26903509 bytes
Compr. ratio : 1.791 (55.84 %)
Average bps  : 8.934
Average rate : 788.0 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 805 kbit/s ]

Processing took 7.91 sec (34.5 x real-time)
------------------------------------------------------
mp4als -v (default)
------------------------------------------------------
PCM file: 01.sigur r≤s - sΘ lest.wav
ALS file: 01.sigur r≤s - sΘ lest.als

Encoding... 100% done

Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch
Bit rate    : 1411.2 kbit/s
Playing time : 520.5 sec
PCM file size: 91810364 bytes
ALS file size: 44832450 bytes
Compr. ratio : 2.048 (48.83 %)
Average bps  : 7.813
Average rate : 689.1 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 703 kbit/s ]

Processing took 15.13 sec (34.4 x real-time)

I wanted to see how fast the encoder was with the "-7" switch, and at this point, it is very slow. Obviously this is an initial release and the specification is new, but man that's slow.

Code: [Select]
------------------------------------------------------
mp4als -v -7 (Set parameters for optimum compression)
------------------------------------------------------
PCM file: 01.enya - only time.wav
ALS file: 01.enya - only time.als

Encoding... 100% done

Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch
Bit rate     : 1411.2 kbit/s
Playing time : 218.0 sec
PCM file size: 38462300 bytes
ALS file size: 22675979 bytes
Compr. ratio : 1.696 (58.96 %)
Average bps  : 9.433
Average rate : 832.0 kbit/s

Processing took 186.70 sec (1.2 x real-time)

Interesting to see that the default settings are giving better compression than FLAC's highest setting. Seems the compression levels will be closer to Wavpack than FLAC. Very cool news, thanks for the info Guruboolez.
  • Last Edit: 28 December, 2005, 09:05:46 PM by Zoom

  • guruboolez
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #10
Before the bed:

- WavPack 4.3 -fx5
- flac 1.1.2 -8
- Monkey's Audio 3.99 -normal
- MPEG-4 ALS 2005.12.28 {defaut}


The setting I used for WavPack and flac are those giving the best compressing ratio with no sacrifice on the decompressing speed. For MAC, I used he default setting, which offers IMO the best compromise between ratio (strong), encoding speed (fast) and decoding speed (decent).


Code: [Select]
flac     WavPack    MPEG-4    Monkey's
575,7    566,3    550,7    549,8
821,5    862,6    824,9    790,3
904,0    906,2    902,1    842,5
870,9    878,8    867,1    852,4
742,3    767,9    717,0    703,4
347,4    336,1    307,6    321,5
633,2    628,1    619,9    607,0
592,2    591,0    581,3    566,6
530,4    523,4    515,8    515,0
554,3    569,5    552,1    542,7
611,3    599,5    591,3    584,5
486,2    472,0    462,9    456,4
729,9    756,4    690,5    664,7
614,0    608,0    599,6    585,7
583,8    577,4    566,1    552,7
657,4    665,0    650,7    634,4
503,9    498,2    474,3    459,5
665,5    671,9    649,1    640,1
607,9    594,2    584,2    577,1
581,7    561,7    549,1    542,5
695,4    688,3    679,3    672,0
644,3    642,9    630,1    618,6
533,8    520,3    505,1    499,0
509,5    496,9    484,9    483,5
373,6    372,8    354,1    349,4
508,5    495,6    487,4    486,0
686,5    679,6    674,9    663,9
532,8    519,4    507,7    499,5
486,4    471,5    463,2    457,8
774,0    771,9    761,2    749,5
597,7    585,5    575,3    560,5
555,1    548,5    537,3    524,1
648,7    632,1    621,0    607,9
635,8    643,8    626,7    614,2
656,4    653,8    638,8    625,3
865,5    871,8    859,0    846,1
777,1    772,7    762,1    754,9
758,1    759,5    739,6    721,6
477,5    463,0    450,2    449,6
696,1    692,6    668,5    658,6
865,9    871,6    850,7    841,9
589,9    576,1    564,9    558,2
572,1    564,0    553,0    545,1
555,5    546,5    538,1    527,0
552,5    533,5    526,4    516,6
746,4    743,8    734,1    726,2
720,1    722,0    709,4    698,0
712,9    705,8    692,4    676,5
469,4    467,3    462,9    452,6
849,8    844,5    844,3    833,8
625,6    622,8    608,1    599,0
674,9    664,6    656,8    643,7
694,3    684,5    676,3    666,8
654,7    631,2    619,1    612,2
897,2    894,8    891,1    882,8
707,5    696,1    691,7    683,8
790,1    786,6    770,5    762,7
753,3    745,7    744,1    731,7
759,5    748,5    748,6    735,3
688,7    673,9    668,2    661,1
750,1    758,9    744,0    723,9
785,5    783,3    781,5    769,0
843,9    847,4    825,8    811,9
761,5    764,5    743,9    731,4
798,1    794,7    790,7    778,7
565,7    562,3    559,1    549,0
525,8    516,7    509,4    499,5
523,2    513,2    503,9    494,9
634,3    619,3    617,5    603,3
607,0    605,1    596,5    584,5
537,0    534,7    521,0    512,2
760,6    753,0    747,6    735,1
597,6    594,0    585,2    569,8
568,8    572,6    563,8    549,2
667,8    663,8    668,8    646,4
771,8    770,6    761,9    749,1
866,0    867,6    857,7    842,4
960,4    968,2    956,8    920,7
946,0    954,8    941,6    931,0
753,5    783,8    736,1    715,2
830,4    834,7    821,3    808,5
685,0    671,2    651,8    640,4
536,7    519,8    514,5    504,6
531,7    511,4    500,1    494,8
675,9    647,7    641,1    631,1
540,2    542,7    527,1    510,1
667,7    663,0    648,9    639,1
576,4    561,5    543,4    531,2
557,0    525,1    506,9    501,0
515,7    514,4    497,8    478,0
411,7    384,9    359,5    366,2
445,1    423,4    395,1    387,6
501,5    479,4    433,9    430,2
445,5    425,6    415,2    413,7
408,1    398,0    385,8    387,7
408,1    398,0    385,8    387,7
658,1    679,2    642,4    632,6
559,1    570,9    550,2    537,1
698,4    697,5    673,0    662,5
815,7    832,0    774,9    761,7
495,6    484,8    484,6    466,9
657,5    661,6    652,5    620,7
603,8    589,4    585,1    569,7
485,9    471,1    457,6    436,7
668,5    666,1    657,5    649,1
554,4    563,4    544,1    528,8
527,0    517,9    516,0    502,7
580,0    572,3    566,1    553,3
742,9    751,8    736,4    718,9
398,0    385,0    373,4    367,4
482,3    476,7    460,2    451,7
536,5    533,1    516,8    508,0
571,5    554,6    543,7    536,2
507,0    503,5    486,8    468,0
758,5    759,3    749,7    727,1
613,3    607,4    596,6    582,1
698,1    690,9    684,5    674,8
484,9    473,4    454,7    450,2
384,9    379,4    349,2    353,5
487,0    470,1    435,4    436,4
658,7    647,1    632,4    625,3
659,4    640,2    630,2    620,7
276,4    269,8    255,3    259,6
836,8    836,3    825,0    809,9
618,9    605,6    597,3    595,4
759,3    750,3    741,5    733,5
663,7    650,9    639,9    627,9
453,0    446,2    437,3    434,5
698,7    700,8    687,1    672,4
716,0    724,5    705,2    692,1
567,9    554,9    542,3    530,3
669,0    655,9    630,3    620,2
733,6    722,8    687,8    678,3
686,2    663,6    647,9    643,1
652,6    626,1    592,4    586,5
615,6    595,3    579,8    564,9
474,1    474,7    450,3    444,6
655,2    647,3    630,3    623,8
585,0    584,3    576,8    559,3
657,0    659,4    642,5    631,8
770,6    772,3    756,5    749,6
585,0    580,1    570,5    552,8
589,6    574,6    567,4    557,0
850,6    852,6    847,2    833,6
582,6    598,7    579,6    560,1
589,8    592,6    579,8    567,6
722,0    715,5    708,1    695,6
551,5    546,9    526,1    514,0
727,1    732,1    701,0    688,9
637,7    624,7    608,3    595,7
____________________________________
633,87    628,72    614,28    603,20

=> MPEG-4 ALS has a better ratio than the current "very fast" and modern lossless encoders (flac and WavPack fast)
=> MPEG-4 ALS has a worse ratio than Monkey's -normal / -c2000
(results for classical music, but from my experience the difference between formats  are extrapolable to other musical genres - with a higher bitrate...)


As a consequence, I expect from this first implementation and for the encoding side to perform as good as Monkey's -fast/-c1000 (fast encoding/average decoding) or WavPack -x4 (very slow encoding/really fast decoding).
The question now is: how fast/complex is the decoding side? As fast as Wavpack/flac? Slower than Monkey's?
  • Last Edit: 28 December, 2005, 10:32:42 PM by guruboolez

  • skamp
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #11
I did a small test on Where Is the Line by Björk, from the album Medúlla, ripped from a DVD-Audio (losslessly, search the forums). The audio is 24bit, 96kHz, 6 channels (5.1).

Code: [Select]
03 - Where Is the Line.wav: 462.827 MiB

mp4 (default):    185.525 MiB   0m 58.920s
mp4 -7 (best):    172.122 MiB  38m 21.697s

wavpack -hm:    241.043 MiB   1m  2.869s
wavpack -hmx1:    240.871 MiB   2m 50.220s
wavpack -hmx2:    215.992 MiB   5m 48.687s
wavpack -hmx3:    179.891 MiB  30m 50.188s
wavpack -hmx6:    to be done

flac --best:    238.116 MiB   3m 22.062s


I have to say, the results are very, VERY impressive. I'm currently encoding the whole album to wavpack -hmx6 for my own use, so I'll do more testing later. But man, I can't wait for that codec to be supported by Free Software (I use linux most of the time).

Edit: added the filesize of the reference .wav file.
  • Last Edit: 28 December, 2005, 10:34:50 PM by skamp
See my profile for measurements, tools and recommendations.

  • benski
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #12
Does anybody know what patents are being used in MPEG-4 ALS and what the licensing terms are?

MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #13
Just out of curiosity, has anyone done bit comparisons to prove total lossless-ness?
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

  • atici
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #14
Wasn't LPAC the codec chosen a while ago for MPEG4 because of the lack of applicants?
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  • Zoom
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #15
Quote
Just out of curiosity, has anyone done bit comparisons to prove total lossless-ness?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352991"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I just checked it out on a couple of files. The files I tested, coded then decoded all were bit accurate. I used the bit comparator in foobar2000. I checked the filesizes in windows and they were exact too.

  • Garf
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #16
Try this:

-b : Use BGMC codes for prediction residual (default: use Rice codes)

Edit: hmm, I guess -7 already does that. What's the effect of -p ? Try -z3, too.

-7 -p -z3 should give best compression ratio
  • Last Edit: 29 December, 2005, 02:35:09 PM by Garf

  • Zurman
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #17
Thanks Guru for the comparisson

  • Garf
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #18
Quote
Yes, it uses BSAC (Bit-slice arithmetic coding). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't ALS hybrid codec that would be the purpose of BSAC? When I read the Research Paper on it that was the impression I got or am I missing something here? Is that something different.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352904"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You are confusing it with SLS perhaps?

  • HotshotGG
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #19
Quote
you are confusing it with SLS perhaps?


SLS that's what I am thinking of 
budding I.T professional

  • miros
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #20
Ok, here is an encoding/decoding speed test. Album used is The Joshua Tree from U2, athlon64 (1.8GHz) cpu and linux. I have used 32-bit executables as there isn't a 64-bit object file for the adaptive prediction algorithm in the mpeg4als.zip.

Code: [Select]
                    kbps        encoding    decoding
flac 1.1.2         770.0        53.9x      168.7x
flac 1.1.2 -8      767.2         7.1x      166.8x
wavpack 4.31       759.8        72.0x       77.6x
wavpack 4.31 -fx5  765.4         8.1x      101.8x
wavpack 4.31 -x4   748.6         3.5x       79.8x
mp4alsRM16         748.7        24.2x       69.2x
mp4alsRM16 -7      723.5         0.81x       6.65x

Edit: Added wavpack test.
  • Last Edit: 29 December, 2005, 09:40:59 AM by miros

  • guruboolez
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #21
The table is updated on the second post of this thread. Were just added:
- MAC 3.99 -fast
- WavPack 4.3 -x4

Summary:

• MPEG-4 default = 614,28 kbps
• flac -8 = 633,87
• WavPack -fx5 = 628,72
• WavPack -x4 = 618,27

• MAC -c1000 = 616,05
• MAC -c2000 = 603,20


=> MPEG-4 default has nearly the same compression ratio on this musical genre than WavPack -hx4 and Monkey's Audio -fast.

Decoding speed (old Duron 800): x39 (WavPack) x20 (MAC)
Encoding speed (old Duron 800): x1.1 (WavPack) x19 (MAC)

I can't evaluate speed on my laptop: results are varying too much from one encoding/decoding to another one.
  • Last Edit: 29 December, 2005, 09:05:45 AM by guruboolez

  • DARcode
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #22
Quote
I did a small test on Where Is the Line by Björk, from the album Medúlla, ripped from a DVD-Audio (losslessly, search the forums). The audio is 24bit, 96kHz, 6 channels (5.1).

Code: [Select]
03 - Where Is the Line.wav: 462.827 MiB

mp4 (default):    185.525 MiB   0m 58.920s
mp4 -7 (best):    172.122 MiB  38m 21.697s

wavpack -hm:    241.043 MiB   1m  2.869s
wavpack -hmx1:    240.871 MiB   2m 50.220s
wavpack -hmx2:    215.992 MiB   5m 48.687s
wavpack -hmx3:    179.891 MiB  30m 50.188s
wavpack -hmx6:    to be done

flac --best:    238.116 MiB   3m 22.062s


I have to say, the results are very, VERY impressive. I'm currently encoding the whole album to wavpack -hmx6 for my own use, so I'll do more testing later. But man, I can't wait for that codec to be supported by Free Software (I use linux most of the time).

Edit: added the filesize of the reference .wav file.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352946"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Impressive! Now I'm really interested.
WavPack 4.80.0 -b384hx6cmv / qaac 2.59 -V 100

  • pest
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #23
for the amount of muscles ALS is throwing at the problem the results are a bit disappointing.

  • DARcode
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications
Reply #24
Just my own little test:

AMD Sempron64 3400+
Corsair 1GB DDR XMS3200XL Platinum TwinX (2x512MB) CAS2
2 X Samsung SpinPoint P120 SATA Series SP2504C (from one to the other)

Code: [Select]
81.974.300 10 - War Pigs.wav


wavpack -hx4

created 10 - War Pigs.wv in 390.01 secs (lossless, 29.80%)

57.548.910 10 - War Pigs.wv


mp4alsRM16.exe -7

*Stop Watch 00:08:24.61

57.289.738 10 - War Pigs.als
WavPack 4.80.0 -b384hx6cmv / qaac 2.59 -V 100