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Topic: Do headphone extension cables degrade sound? (Read 11855 times) previous topic - next topic
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Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

If I use some $5 headphone extension cables to connect my headphones to my PC's sound card, will there be any degradation of sound quality?

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #1 –
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If I use some $5 headphone extension cables to connect my headphones to my PC's sound card, will there be any degradation of sound quality?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=336703"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Theoretical differences are possible, but that depends on your particular setup.

If the cables and connectors are robust and you don't hear any audible differences nothing else matters. I suppose you are not going to save the output anywhere except to the memory cells in your brain. 

[span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%']Edit: typo[/span]

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #2 –
If there are degradations, they should be smaller than the ones introduced by the impedance matching between the headphones and the soundcard.

Here is an example of the impedance effect on an Arcam Diva A85 amplifier and a Marian Marc 2 soundcard, with Senheiser HD600 headphones :

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #3 –
PS : unfortunately, I didn't measure the effect of the extension cord for headphones with the headphones plugged in.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #4 –
An extension cord adds electrical resistance, so it does affect the signal. But with a reasonable length, (let's say 3m or 10 ft) I don't think you could hear the difference. Assuming the cable is of solid build and the soundcard output is not already at the edge of it's capability with the headphones plugged in.

So go ahead, use it. My 3m cable is undetectable for me with my soundcard (SB Live! 1024) and Koss PortaPro, Shure E3c or Senn PXC250  headphones.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #5 –
Usually the biggest culprit for impedence comes from the connectors. I can only remember rough numbers for optical couplings right now so... just remember that to make a ten' extension, one 10' extension is better than two 5' extensions.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #6 –
Cool, so I guess my cheap 3.5m cables shouldn't make any noticeable difference.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #7 –
You might be able to make out some difference if you are using high end equipment. If you are planning on using $5 cans with your computer soundcard, I doubt if it would make any difference. Surely does not with my El Cheapo cans and SB Live! soundcard   
Reason is immortal, all else mortal
- Pythagoras

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #8 –
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You might be able to make out some difference if you are using high end equipment.

Probably not, unless the conductors/connectors are made out of graphite or something.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #9 –
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Probably not, unless the conductors/connectors are made out of graphite or something.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=336968"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi Twombly, I meant exactly what you pointed out .  Maybe, I should have highlighted the word 'might'.
Reason is immortal, all else mortal
- Pythagoras

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #10 –
Probably the best idea would be to plug it in and have a listen - if you still need to ask, then it really isn't a problem
hi

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #11 –
But my audiophile powers tell me there must be a difference!!!


Anyway, I use extension cables in my setup and have no problems (other than the noise generated between my computer and my old amp).
Acid8000 aka. PhilDEE

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #12 –
<deleted>

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #13 –
I suggest that you perform a blind test. I was too convinced that my apmlifier headphone output did trash the sound, but after a blind test, I realized that there was no audible difference with my soundcard output. The sound was obviously different to me before the test, now when I compare them, they sound exactly the same.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #14 –
<deleted>

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #15 –
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There are many occasions when sonic differences are so pronounced that a 'blind-test' is unnecessary - and this was one of them![a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=338708"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Sorry, but according to the terms of service of this board (rule 8), the only sonic differences that are so pronounced that a 'blind-test' is unnecessary are differences that have been measured and are way above the human threshold of hearing, or differences that have been proven to be audible, like MP3 at 64 kbps vs original.
Any headphone extention cord should have a very small effect on the sound, usually not audible. Thus a blind test is required to backup such an assumption.

Either you setup something in order to show the difference, blind test as described here, or measurments, either you must stop telling here that you can hear a difference with and without an extension cord, which is unlikely, without proving it.

I mean no offence, that's just how the board works !

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #16 –
Pio2001, hi there and and first of all no offence whatsoever taken.

In any case re

Quote
Any headphone extention cord should have a very small effect on the sound, usually not audible. Thus a blind test is required to backup such an assumption.

Either you setup something in order to show the difference, blind test as described here, or measurments, either you must stop telling here that you can hear a difference with and without an extension cord, which is unlikely, without proving it.


In fact I did not claim that headphone extension cables do make a sonic difference, but rather that they might  -

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NTS 'I fully accept that I might simply have had a dodgy cable'


In other words I made exactly the same basic suggestion as many others who have posted on this thread without any blind-test evidence whatsoever (and remember all these were in response to this specific question:
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Shiki: If I use some $5 headphone extension cables to connect my headphones to my PC's sound card, will there be any degradation of sound quality?
:

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AlexB 'Theoretical differences are possible, but that depends on your particular setup.'


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Pio2001:  'If there are degradations, they should [my italics] be smaller than the ones introduced by the impedance matching between the headphones and the soundcard.


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Cartoon: 'An extension cord adds electrical resistance, so it does affect the signal. But with a reasonable length, (let's say 3m or 10 ft) I don't think you could hear the difference.'


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Audiomars: 'You might be able to make out some difference if you are using high end equipment.'


In any case I have deleted the offending message,  all best wishes.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #17 –
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In any case I have deleted the offending message,  all best wishes.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=339244"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That's a shame, because if you could recreate the phenomenon you find audible contained within an ABX scenario this would indeed be interesting.

Also, you would be among the first to bother doing it
Most claims that are similar to this one always ends in backing down - which is uninteresting.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #18 –
David Nordin, hi there and re

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That's a shame, because if you could recreate the phenomenon you find audible contained within an ABX scenario this would indeed be interesting. Also, you would be among the first to bother doing it  Most claims that are similar to this one always ends in backing down - which is uninteresting.


Assuming (for the sake of argument) that I did have a dodgy extension cable, do you think that ABX results would help or hinder others who have this sort of equipment?

And that simply highlights one of the many, many inherent flaws in the 'blind-test everything' approach to audio reproduction.

Cheers for the interest in any case.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #19 –
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David Nordin, hi there and re

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That's a shame, because if you could recreate the phenomenon you find audible contained within an ABX scenario this would indeed be interesting. Also, you would be among the first to bother doing it  Most claims that are similar to this one always ends in backing down - which is uninteresting.


Assuming (for the sake of argument) that I did have a dodgy extension cable, do you think that ABX results would help or hinder others who have this sort of equipment?

And that simply highlights one of the many, many inherent flaws in the 'blind-test everything' approach to audio reproduction.

Cheers for the interest in any case.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=339253"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Make that double blindtest even.

It would prove a point, and earn you respect since we stick to science on this board. Or rather statistics and proper methodology - which is what science would be all about in the end.

Another way to view it is that if you can isolate a faulty part of your chain you can then measure the component and try to find out what the reason behind this phenomenon was - that could be interesting in upcoming similar events in the future.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #20 –
David Nordin, hello again and re

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Make that double blindtest even. It would prove a point, and earn you respect since we stick to science on this board. Or rather statistics and proper methodology - which is what science would be all about in the end. Another way to view it is that if you can isolate a faulty part of your chain you can then measure the component and try to find out what the reason behind this phenomenon was - that could be interesting in upcoming similar events in the future.


I am afraid I am not sure how an ABX test could identify a faulty component, at least in the situation I was in.  Again, in my opinion blind testing has a role in audio-reproduction evaluation, but a relatively limited  - and indeed potentially completely misleading - one.

On the other hand I fully understand that we all agree to adhere to the rules of any internet sites we sign up to, hence my post deletion.

All best wishes.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #21 –
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I am afraid I am not sure how an ABX test could identify a faulty component, at least in the situation I was in. [{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You can try to ABX your headphones with the extention cord (A), and without (B). If the test is successful, you have confirmed that your extension cord is faulty.

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Again, in my opinion blind testing has a role in audio-reproduction evaluation, but a relatively limited  - and indeed potentially completely misleading - one.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=339315"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


One can misinterpret some ABX results, we can't prevent it, however, blind tests are far less misleading than other listening tests. Example of flaw in common ones : [a href="http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/12/circuits/articles/23down.html]http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/12/...les/23down.html[/url]

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #22 –
Pio2001, hello again and re

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Pio2001 You can try to ABX your headphones with the extension cord (A), and without (B). If the test is successful, you have confirmed that your extension cord is faulty.


I am afraid I am not sure why you are now making the assertion that headphone extension cables definitely cannot degrade subjective sound quality, therefore any ABX'd differences would 'prove' that the individual cable itself was faulty.

Furthermore, how does this new assertion that headphone extension cables definitely do not / cannot degrade subjective sound quality unless they are actually broken fit in with the very rule you directed me to in the first place (and I attempted to adhere to by deleting my initial post):

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Hydrogenaudio Terms of Service / Notices 8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must -- to the best of their ability -- provide objective support for their claims. Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings. Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.


In any case as I have said throughout, blind-testing has a limited role to play in audio-reproduction evaluation - but if the results are taken as somehow conclusive and 'scientific', a potentially completely misleading and harmful one (re the possibility of technical problems with any individual components etc. etc.)

Many thanks again for the interest, and all best wishes.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #23 –
Why can't the results be taken as conclusive and scientific?

Do we use mumbo-jumbo to evaluate and analyse what is essentially vibrations passing through the air? Granted, such vibrations can, for some, create pleasure greater than that derived from sex.

And if someone has successfully proven or disproven a point using blind- or double blind-testing, why wouldn't anybody trust his findings? Because he is an inveterate liar? I would like to point out that many such 'liars' have greatly assisted the improvements in quality of the different lossy codecs we have today. If anyone declares himself anti-ABX, then I declare to him, better use only lossless codecs, WAV files, or stick to vinyl and laser discs. Or maybe use WMA.

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Assuming (for the sake of argument) that I did have a dodgy extension cable, do you think that ABX results would help or hinder others who have this sort of equipment?


I can say with absolute certainty that ABX would help....

Wait, only YOU are having a problem with the extension cable, how else would it help anybody else, unless the whole batch of cables was faulty?

What the others can do to help the guy with the 'faulty' cable is to provide their own ABX results to confirm if it is an isolated case, or otherwise.


On a nearly unrelated note, it's funny seeing people with exceptional equipment, those that are able to reproduce signals transparently (pure tones, music, or otherwise), come up with lots of flowery descriptors in audio hardware comparison, and yet fail simple blind tests. These people then declare their lack of belief/respect/recognition in/for the methodology of ABX.

Do headphone extension cables degrade sound?

Reply #24 –
Sld, many thanks for that, and I'll try and explain my underlying point in greater detail and clarity.

ABX / double-blind etc testing is claimed to produce at least relatively scientific, objective and definitive reports re comparative audio quality and / or whether there are any genuinely audible differences in the first place (e.g. whether there are any genuine audible differences between hardware and software upsampling).

A 'with and without' ABX / double-blind test on a headphone extension cable might therefore produce a report 'objectively proving' that this piece of equipment introduces a substantial difference to the final audio quality / substantially degrades it.

However the specific cable used could have been faulty all the time, with no possible way for the tester to have known this;

But the resultant 'scientific', 'objective' and 'conclusive' ABX / double-blind test might then circulate rapidly across the Internet resulting in entire mountain ranges of needlessly discarded headphone extension cables, and several company liquidations! 

That general principle obviously applies to all equipment, software etc tested via ABX / double-blind tests - and is just one out of many flaws in relying on this procedure in some sort of conclusive or scientific sense.

Hope that explained my position on this, best wishes in any case.