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Topic: MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112 (Read 10627 times) previous topic - next topic
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MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

I have always used to transfer my CD's to hard drive Lame and the - alt preset insane setting (for quality); however, now have a MP3 player and don't need more than 128 bit rate(?), so was wondering if I can convert my MP3's from 320 to 128 kbps bit rate without sacrificing too much quality and if so, what is the best app. to do this with?

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #1 –
Quote
I have always used to transfer my CD's to hard drive Lame and the - alt preset insane setting (for quality); however, now have a MP3 player and don't need more than 128 bit rate(?), so was wondering if I can convert my MP3's from 320 to 128 kbps bit rate without sacrificing too much quality and if so, what is the best app. to do this with?
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You can do this but quality will be lost.  It all depends on if you can hear the difference or not.  I don't recomend transcoding between lossy formats but a lot of people can't hear the difference.  There are a lot of apps that will do this.  I recomend [a href="http://www.dbpoweramp.com]dbpoweramp[/url] because it uses the Lame 3.96.1 encoder (the next beta version will use Lame 3.97b1).  However, it was recently tested that the Lame mp3 encoder does not give the best results for transcoding between lossy files.

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #2 –
320 to 128 kbps bit rate is OK,
You don't have to Rerip CD as its too much work...... With protable mp3 player, you don't need such high quality mp3

i would suggest using preset abr 112 or preset abr 128, abr sould produce better quality than its corresponding cbr bitrate

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #3 –
Quote
320 to 128 kbps bit rate is OK,
You don't have to Rerip CD as its too much work...... With protable mp3 player, you don't need such high quality mp3

i would suggest using preset abr 112 or preset abr 128, abr sould produce better quality than its corresponding cbr bitrate
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=335897"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



When you reduce the bit rate down to 112 or 128, would you lose noticeable quality such as in the highs? 

As with 320 encoding, although its lossy, isn't that pretty much CD quality anyhow and going from this to 128 do you think that there will be a noticeable degeneration?  I used EAC to rip & Lame 3.90.3 to encode the original CD...so transcoding this MP3 to 128 or 112 will not give me good results to play on my player through my car stereo?

If this is possible w/o too much loss, what settings should I use to do this? 

Thanx

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #4 –
Hello, I posted this on another forum last night, but this is probably where I should have posted it....sorry for the re-post and sorry if this has been asked before but could not find any other listings.

Here is the question:  I have ripped CD's using EAC and encoded using Lame 3.90.3 using the preset insane command, now I would like to take these rather large and almost CD quality MP3's and convert to 128 or 112 for use on my portable MP3 player to be played through car stereo or through headphones.

I understand that going from lossy to lossy is not recommended and that transcoding is even worse? 

Is this conversion (320 > 112 or 128) going to give me horrible results and will it be that noticeable? 

Has anyone done this and if so, what program did you use to do this? 

Thanx!

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #5 –
I don't think transcoding is worse - depends what you are trancoding from - transcoding from a lossless format would be groovy.

Some lossy formats are better to convert from and to - i.e.: you may get a better result converting from MP3 to MPC than MPC to MPC.  The irrepressible Guruboolez did a test on this, you could try a search.  However, as you are going from MP3 to MP3 then it doesn't really matter I guess.  Edit:  Here it is!

I have converted from 320 CBR to -V5, and don't have a problem with it.  I used foobar to convert, but you could use LAME on its own I guess.

The basic answer is to try and take a listen - everyone has different levels of hearing.  Mine is probably below average, certainly for HA users.

Edit: I guess I never formally stated that transcoding from lossy to lossy is bad.  So here it is: ooh, that's bad.
I'm on a horse.

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #6 –
Transcoding from a lossy format to a lossy format will result in files of terrible quality.  However, it all depends if you can hear the difference between a 320kbps mp3 and a transcoded 112kbps mp3.  If you can't hear a difference then go for it.  I have done some transcoding for some files I have, I ended up keeing the resulting files because I could easily ABX them from the transcoded files.  I used dbpoweramp simply because it had Lame 3.96.1 integrated into it.  The Lame mp3 encoder (3.90.3, 3.97b1, etc.) is really good for ripping a CD.  When it comes to transcoding between lossy files, the Lame mp3 encoder falls short when compared to OGG, MPC, or even iTunes mpeg-4 AAC.  These were the results of a recent listening test.

Still, if you can't hear the difference between a 320kbps mp3 and a transcoded 112kbps mp3, then go a head and do it.  This all depends on your ears.

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #7 –
I've tried searching but not come up with much.  This is as close as I got (there are no results BTW).

Has there been any listening tests where members have tried to ABX, say, 128kbps CBR MP3s converted from both WAV and CBR 320 MP3?

I feel there must be some tests, but I can't find them.
I'm on a horse.

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #8 –
Just do it ™

I assume you are keeping your 320 kbps files and this is just for the portable? Convert a few tracks, listen to them and if it sounds horrible to you, you know what you have to do. If it sounds ok, be happy and start converting the rest too.

There are no magic buttons to touch that make 128 kbps sound better than it is.
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #9 –
Thanx then - i'll give it a whirl around the block and see what happens.  I was hoping to  find some results from others that have tried it and to see which app works the best. 

Since I encoded w/ Lame, I will use Lame to do the Transcoding as well and since there is not a lot of info on this topic (which is hard to imagine), I will post my results.  Since I'm a newb, don't expect anything tecnical; unless there is a way to test the difference?      I would imagine it is all subjective though.

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #10 –
Quote
When you reduce the bit rate down to 112 or 128, would you lose noticeable quality such as in the highs? 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=335954"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Code: [Select]
:\> lame -b 320
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 20094 Hz - 20627 Hz

:\> lame -b 128
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 16538 Hz - 17071 Hz

:\> lame --abr 128
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 16538 Hz - 17071 Hz


As you can see, there is a filter with a lower transition band, so yes, it filters high frequencies, but 17Khz is quite high. Listen to it and decide if it satisfies you.


Quote
I understand that going from lossy to lossy is not recommended and that transcoding is even worse? 

Is this conversion (320 > 112 or 128) going to give me horrible results and will it be that noticeable? 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=335963"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Just to clarify: converting from lossy to lossy is a type of transcoding. In fact, the most used definition.

Transcoding adds artifacts because the (hopefully unhearable) differences between the lossy and the original can be amplified or simply make other deficiencies more apparent.
Said that, transcoding is generally accepted from high bitrates to low bitrates because the artifacts that the transcoding adds, are generally less than those caused by the low bitrate.

Quote
Transcoding from a lossy format to a lossy format will result in files of terrible quality.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=335968"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That is quite a hard comment. Do not take extremist positions. This is not a perfect/disastrous debate. It is lossy files afterall, and even more, it is for a portable.

Quote
However, it all depends if you can hear the difference between a 320kbps mp3 and a transcoded 112kbps mp3.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=335968"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I think it depends more about being able to hear the difference between 320kbps MP3 and non-transcoded 112kbps MP3. The artifacts from the transcoding, generally ( not always ), would be less than the ones by that low bitrate.

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #11 –
Quote
Since I encoded w/ Lame, I will use Lame to do the Transcoding as well and since there is not a lot of info on this topic (which is hard to imagine), I will post my results.  Since I'm a newb, don't expect anything tecnical; unless there is a way to test the difference?     

You can do an ABX test with e.g. foobar2000 to see if you can here a difference between the two.
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #12 –
Here's a listening test done on transcoding i think.

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #13 –
Hi !

If i MUST archive my music in high quality MP3 format, and then i MUST transcode to vbr V2, is BETTER use -freeformat @384kbps or insane @320kbps as MASTER mp3 ?

Thanks

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #14 –
FF is useless because nearly nothing can play it. You can transcode with speeks frontend but then I'd go for an archive quality lossy like Dualstream etc..

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #15 –
Quote
With protable mp3 player, you don't need such high quality mp3[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=335897"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have to disagree with that statement. Since you're using headphones to listen to the music, you may be more likely to notice artifacts than if you were playing it on your home stereo (ie. speakers).

Of course if you listen in a noisy environment, such as a bus or a train, you're less likely to notice, but I use my portable player a lot in school when I'm working, and I'd notice low quality encodes right away.

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #16 –
Quote
Hi !

FF is useless because nearly nothing can play it. You can transcode with speeks frontend but then I'd go for an archive quality lossy like Dualstream etc..
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=337130"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



I mean about quality, not compatibility !!!

Better 320 or FF under this point of view ?

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #17 –
If you are using the same encoder for both 320kbps and FF then logic would suggest the higher the bitrate, the higher the quality.
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #18 –
Quote
If you are using the same encoder for both 320kbps and FF then logic would suggest the higher the bitrate, the higher the quality.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=337235"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Ok, this is the logic, but...

Sorry for my bad english: I hope to be understood...

320 kbps is a STANDARD default, very much tested from years now.

384 (or more) kbps is NOT a standard MP3 format.

Is it, TECHNICALLY SPEACKING, true that more bits means ALWAYS more quality ? (using the same encoder, sure !)

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #19 –
Unless the encoder is sabotaged I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't be the case.
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #20 –
Personally I disagree with bitrate reduction for an MP3 player unless the player is running out of space. Nonetheless, here's a solution that worked for me: Red Chair Software's Explorer, compatible with Creative, Apple, Rio, iRiver and Dell MP3 players. It will downconvert high bitrate files to lower bitrates as per your specifications on the fly during the sync process. The only drawback is that it's not free, but it works like a charm and the quality of the downconverted files is very good.
EAC>1)fb2k>LAME3.99 -V 0 --vbr-new>WMP12 2)MAC-Extra High
 

MP3 transcoding 320 to 128 or 112

Reply #21 –
From iTunes 5 Help file:
( I think the [somewhat] relevant info is 4 paragraphs down**)

Saving a copy of a song in a new file format -
You can convert a song to a different file format while keeping a copy of the original. For example, you can save a copy of a compressed song file such as MP3 or AAC in an uncompressed song format (AIFF or WAV).

When converting from a compressed to uncompressed file format (for example, from MP3 to AIFF) you shouldn't notice any reduction in sound quality. However, when converting between compressed formats (for example, MP3 and AAC), you may notice a reduction in the sound quality. For the best results, if you want your music encoded in a different file format, you should import the music again from the original source using the new encoding format.  [Duh...]

To convert a song's file format:  [READ THIS TOO]
Choose Edit > Preferences, then click the Advanced tab at the top of the window and click Importing.
From the Import Using pop-up menu, choose the encoding format that you want to convert the song to, then click OK to save the settings.
Select one or more songs in your library, then choose Advanced > Convert Selection to MP3, Convert Selection to AAC, Convert Selection to Apple Lossless, Convert Selection to AIFF, or Convert Selection to WAV. (The menu item changes to show what's selected in your Importing preferences.)

**[AND ESPECIALLY THIS]
To convert all the songs in a folder or on a disk, hold down the Shift key and choose Advanced > "Convert Selection to," then choose the folder or disk containing the songs you want to convert. All the songs in the folder or on the disk will be converted except audio files you purchased from the iTunes Music Store. (Purchased songs are encoded using a protected AAC format that prevents them from being converted.)

The song in its original format and the newly converted song appear in your library.
END OF HELP SECTION

[I came here looking for some ideas about transcoding about 2,000 high bitrate mp3s to 128kbps as expeditiously as possible - I believe these high bitrate mp3s on my iPod are now killing its battery - only 2 hrs of play after fully charging a 6 month old iPod.]

[I apologize for the long post and stating some obvious info, but I hope this helps someone. I'm going to try this with mp3s above 192kbps ==> 128kbps using iTunes AAC encoder since I've been reading pretty good things about iTunes AAC encoding for iPod in these threads.]