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Topic: Best quality - ABR or CBR (Read 4990 times) previous topic - next topic
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Best quality - ABR or CBR

I have about 400+ Audio CDs and planning to encode them using EAC & Lame. I have a good Home Theatre system with a hard drive based MP3 player as well which has a massive capacity.

I tried --alt-preset insane, but somehow not comfortable with that. I am not an audio expert, but spent a lot of time searching around.

I also got an understanding that ABR gives better results than CBR even for a given bit-rate. Am I correct in that understanding, even if I want to use 320 bit-rate?

Can someone also suggest me what settings do I use for encoding? Should I use
    "-q0 -V 0 -b 320 --vbr-new -m j -h --lowpass 19500"

Thanks in advance for any help.

Best quality - ABR or CBR

Reply #1 –
In this forum, there's a very useful  FAQ that will explain you everything
[ Commodore 64 Forever...! ]

Best quality - ABR or CBR

Reply #3 –
Quote
I tried --alt-preset insane, but somehow not comfortable with that. I am not an audio expert, but spent a lot of time searching around.
did you not like the sound because it sounded much worse the original, or where you just a little uncomfi (= placebo effect)?

Quote
I also got an understanding that ABR gives better results than CBR even for a given bit-rate. Am I correct in that understanding, even if I want to use 320 bit-rate?
CBR = constant bitrate, not constant quality
VBR = constant quality, not constant bitrate
ABR = average but restricted quality around a given bitrate.
(very basic)
if you have much space go for VBR encodings.

if you use 320kbps than it's going to be CBR, but this is the highest possible normal bitrate (i.e. highest possible quality). it might very well be overkill though.

other than that, look up the links posted above.
Nothing but a Heartache - Since I found my Baby ;)

Best quality - ABR or CBR

Reply #4 –
Quote
I tried --alt-preset insane, but somehow not comfortable with that. I am not an audio expert, but spent a lot of time searching around.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=297314"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I did not find the audio quality as good as the original CD, in my Onkyo stereo + Klipsch speaker setup. I can't exactly tell what was the difference, but it didn't sound right.

Quote
I also got an understanding that ABR gives better results than CBR even for a given bit-rate. Am I correct in that understanding, even if I want to use 320 bit-rate?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=297314"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I am sorry for my typo here, I meant to write that I read "VBR" (not ABR) gives better results even for the same bit-rate (say I choose -b 320 for VBR as well as CBR). Am I correct?

Best quality - ABR or CBR

Reply #5 –
Quote
Quote
I also got an understanding that ABR gives better results than CBR even for a given bit-rate. Am I correct in that understanding, even if I want to use 320 bit-rate?
I am sorry for my typo here, I meant to write that I read "VBR" (not ABR) gives better results even for the same bit-rate (say I choose -b 320 for VBR as well as CBR). Am I correct?
Quote
if you use 320kbps than it's going to be CBR, but this is the highest possible normal bitrate (i.e. highest possible quality). it might very well be overkill though.[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
the same still apply here. if you specify a minimum bitrate of 320 then regardless of the chosen mode (VBR, ABR, CBR) CBR is used.

edit:
Quote
I did not find the audio quality as good as the original CD, in my Onkyo stereo + Klipsch speaker setup. I can't exactly tell what was the difference, but it didn't sound right.
if you want to make sure that there actually is a difference you can look [a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=16295]here[/url].
Nothing but a Heartache - Since I found my Baby ;)

Best quality - ABR or CBR

Reply #6 –
Quote
Quote
I tried --alt-preset insane, but somehow not comfortable with that. I am not an audio expert, but spent a lot of time searching around.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=297314"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I did not find the audio quality as good as the original CD, in my Onkyo stereo + Klipsch speaker setup. I can't exactly tell what was the difference, but it didn't sound right.
What player were you using to playback the mp3 files?  If there really is a difference you can hear it usually is because of some mp3 equaliser settings that are different than the player's CD equaliser settings.

Quote
Quote
I also got an understanding that ABR gives better results than CBR even for a given bit-rate. Am I correct in that understanding, even if I want to use 320 bit-rate?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=297314"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I am sorry for my typo here, I meant to write that I read "VBR" (not ABR) gives better results even for the same bit-rate (say I choose -b 320 for VBR as well as CBR). Am I correct?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=297344"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Look at 320k CBR like this.  You're throwing everything you possibly can at the file.  It is theoretically the best quality mp3 can have.  Look at VBR this way (especially --preset standard and extreme)  you're having the encoder decide how many bits it throws at everything to make it sound exactly the source without having to throw the maximum at every single frame.

The recommended LAME settings are there for a reason friend. 
Nero AAC 1.5.1.0: -q0.45

Best quality - ABR or CBR

Reply #7 –
Simple answer:

For best "theoretical" quality: use 320kbit CBR (preset insane)

For best perceivable quality, choose some difficult music and then:
1. encode to --preset medium and try to ABX it against the original-WAV
2. if you succeed in the ABX-test, repeat it with --preset standard
3. if you succeed in that test as well, repeat it with --preset extreme
4. if you succeed in that test as well, chances are high that something is wrong with your test-setup

Stop at the step where you fail the ABX-test, and use that setting for encoding.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Best quality - ABR or CBR

Reply #8 –
Quote
Can someone also suggest me what settings do I use for encoding? Should I use
    "-q0 -V 0 -b 320 --vbr-new -m j -h --lowpass 19500"
No. This command-line contains several contradictions and undesirable elements.
It is generally a good idea to stick to the presets, unless you know damn well what you're doing.

Quote
I did not find the audio quality as good as the original CD, in my Onkyo stereo + Klipsch speaker setup. I can't exactly tell what was the difference, but it didn't sound right.
You should be careful with this kind of statements around here, these generally aren't tolerated very well. Take a look at this, especially number 8.
The problem is that listening is a very subjective experience, and that the effect of MP3 compression artefacts on your "feel" often is smaller than the placebo effect. Certainly in the case of --alt-preset insane; if you are able to hear the difference at all (which is quite unlikely), you certainly won't by "sitting in front of your stereo and enjoying a few songs".
In order to discern the artefacts, you should eliminate the placebo effect by doing blind listening tests (i.e. ABX). The ideal way to go, would be to follow Lyx' advice.