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Topic: ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode (Read 6562 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • daenyx
  • [*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Hello.  I have uploaded this at the request of another thread:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=33639

Hope I posted that link right.

It was my first time ever to abx audio and I have a long history of heavy classical training on a string instrument and 6 years electronic mixing experience.

I did the ABX test for the first time ever, then the next day I did the exact same test again.

The specs of the tests are:

Wav cd original v.s. Latest build of Lame encoder (using Razorlame) at 320bps
CBR, stereo mode.

I used a soundblaster pci 128 soundcard and pioneer hdj-1000 headphones fed from a pioneer djm-600 mixer.

The first test had the result of 16 out of 21 properly identified with a guess percentage of 1.3 percent.

The second and final test had the result of 15 out of 21 with a guess percentage of
3.9%.

There was no test falsification.



  • saratoga
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #1
Did you try Preset insane?

  • daenyx
  • [*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #2
Here are the logs from the tests:

foo_abx v1.2 report
foobar2000 v0.8.3
2005/04/29 19:26:04

File A: file://C:\Program Files\foobar2000\ABX Testing\YOUR_LIGHT_LUKE_-BP-1095784.mp3
File B: file://C:\Program Files\foobar2000\ABX Testing\YOUR_LIGHT_LUKE_-BP-1095784.WAV

19:28:16 : Test started.
19:32:32 : 01/01  50.0%
19:34:16 : 02/02  25.0%
19:36:40 : 03/03  12.5%
19:39:03 : 03/04  31.3%
19:40:57 : 04/05  18.8%
19:42:09 : 05/06  10.9%
19:43:50 : 06/07  6.3%
19:52:17 : 06/08  14.5%
19:54:12 : 06/09  25.4%
20:01:15 : 06/10  37.7%
20:02:42 : 06/11  50.0%
20:03:39 : 07/12  38.7%
20:03:55 : 08/13  29.1%
20:04:12 : 09/14  21.2%
20:04:33 : 10/15  15.1%
20:04:59 : 11/16  10.5%
20:05:24 : 12/17  7.2%
20:05:52 : 13/18  4.8%
20:06:19 : 14/19  3.2%
20:06:56 : 15/20  2.1%
20:16:53 : 16/21  1.3%
20:33:54 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/21 (1.3%)



foo_abx v1.2 report
foobar2000 v0.8.3
2005/04/30 12:04:32

File A: file://C:\Program Files\foobar2000\ABX Testing\YOUR_LIGHT_LUKE_-BP-1095784.WAV
File B: file://C:\Program Files\foobar2000\ABX Testing\YOUR_LIGHT_LUKE_-BP-1095784.mp3

12:06:22 : Test started.
12:08:12 : 01/01  50.0%
12:08:42 : 02/02  25.0%
12:09:09 : 02/03  50.0%
12:10:07 : 03/04  31.3%
12:10:53 : 04/05  18.8%
12:11:27 : 05/06  10.9%
12:11:46 : 05/07  22.7%
12:12:38 : 05/08  36.3%
12:13:20 : 06/09  25.4%
12:13:52 : 07/10  17.2%
12:14:21 : 08/11  11.3%
12:14:58 : 09/12  7.3%
12:17:26 : 10/13  4.6%
12:18:21 : 10/14  9.0%
12:18:46 : 11/15  5.9%
12:19:09 : 11/16  10.5%
12:19:40 : 12/17  7.2%
12:21:10 : 13/18  4.8%
12:21:47 : 14/19  3.2%
12:25:31 : 14/20  5.8%
12:25:57 : 15/21  3.9%
12:26:07 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 15/21 (3.9%)


The settings for the latest lame encoder were:

-b 320 -m s -h -p

  • daenyx
  • [*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #3
Third Test

Preset Insane v.s. Wav CD original

Soundblaster PCI 128
Pioneer DJM-600 Mixer
Pioneed HD-1000 Headphones

foo_abx v1.2 report
foobar2000 v0.8.3
2005/04/30 16:22:16

File A: file://C:\Program Files\foobar2000\ABX Testing\YOUR_LIGHT_LUKE_-BP-1095784.WAV
File B: file://C:\Program Files\foobar2000\ABX Testing\YOUR_LIGHT_LUKE_-BP-1095784.mp3

16:24:21 : Test started.
16:26:37 : 01/01  50.0%
16:28:57 : 02/02  25.0%
16:34:50 : 03/03  12.5%
16:37:38 : 04/04  6.3%
16:40:08 : 04/05  18.8%
16:41:08 : 05/06  10.9%
16:41:49 : 06/07  6.3%
16:43:01 : 07/08  3.5%
16:48:21 : 08/09  2.0%
16:51:16 : 09/10  1.1%
16:51:49 : 10/11  0.6%
16:53:15 : 11/12  0.3%
16:54:12 : 11/13  1.1%
16:59:32 : 12/14  0.6%
17:02:43 : 12/15  1.8%
17:04:36 : 13/16  1.1%
17:06:26 : 14/17  0.6%
17:06:53 : 15/18  0.4%
17:08:12 : 15/19  1.0%
17:08:54 : 16/20  0.6%
17:09:31 : 16/21  1.3%
17:09:41 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/21 (1.3%)

  • daenyx
  • [*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #4
Muchos gracias amigos

  • Never_Again
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Members (Donating)
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #5
The results would have been very interesting if not for the -s and -p switches used. So far you have only proved what has been long for a long time: neither switch improves audio quality.

ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #6
Quote
The results would have been very interesting if not for the -s and -p switches used. So far you have only proved what has been long for a long time: neither switch improves audio quality.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=294316"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Maybe you missed his 3rd post there where he ABXed against Insane?

Hmm.. from his posting in another thread, looks like he actually didn't get preset insane to work and used his own command line again (this time -b 320 -m j -h -p ).
  • Last Edit: 30 April, 2005, 04:57:48 AM by Leto Atreides II

  • daenyx
  • [*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #7
yes, thats correct.  I thought that was exactly the same as preset insane.

I had some trouble to get the preset insane to work on razorlame.

ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #8
Why use -p switch? From what I've read (correct me if I'm wrong), it uses up 16 bits per frame for some error protection information, which would otherwise be used for storing audio data.

edit: if Razorlame has issues with presets and alt-presets, try drag-and-dropping the source wav file into the main window of EAC.
  • Last Edit: 30 April, 2005, 05:56:30 AM by Wintershade
Only the best is good enough.

ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #9
Maybe you've come across a hard to encode tune? Have you tried other pieces of music? There are always going to be songs which some people will distinguish from the original, even at 320 kbps. It's very unusual though that you'd spot the differences if you aren't an experienced ABXer, no matter what background.

A friend of mine at work boasted about his fine Hi-Fi monster back home and how well he could hear artefacts yada yadda....  I put him through some ABX tests with songs encoded at -V 6. A jazz tune and a metal tune. I used Foobar2000 and a couple of Zennheiser's. He failed miserably! He even had a hard time distinguishing a -V 8 file from the original!

Kudos to the LAME dev team!
//From the barren lands of the Northsmen

  • daenyx
  • [*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #10
Yes this is a really great encoder!  I was very impressed by the sound.

I've done my 4th and final test now, this time versus the dreaded Preset Insane!
I got it working properly by using Advalame as was suggested on this board.

I'm tired from all this ABXing, so I just copied a post I just wrote for the other thread which actually deals with this same issue, minus the uploads!

Here it is:

4th and Final Test:

Wav CD Original vs. MP3 Preset Insane

Soundblaster PCI 128 Soundcard
Pioneer HDJ-1000 Headphones
Pioneer DJM-600 Mixer

Lame Stable Version 3.93 MMX
Preset Insane used from AdvaLame

foo_abx v1.2 report
foobar2000 v0.8.3
2005/04/30 19:04:34

File A: file://C:\Program Files\foobar2000\ABX Testing\YOUR_LIGHT_LUKE_-BP-1095784.WAV
File B: file://C:\Program Files\foobar2000\ABX Testing\YOUR_LIGHT_LUKE_-BP-1095784.mp3

19:07:51 : Test started.
19:10:54 : 01/01 50.0%
19:17:45 : 02/02 25.0%
19:19:25 : 03/03 12.5%
19:25:25 : 04/04 6.3%
19:26:21 : 05/05 3.1%
19:28:22 : 06/06 1.6%
19:36:37 : 07/07 0.8%
19:40:38 : 08/08 0.4%
19:47:05 : 08/09 2.0%
19:52:45 : 09/10 1.1%
19:53:54 : 10/11 0.6%
19:57:56 : 11/12 0.3%
20:00:21 : 12/13 0.2%
20:10:40 : 13/14 0.1%
20:19:26 : 14/15 0.0%
20:23:40 : 15/16 0.0%
20:26:32 : 16/17 0.0%
20:31:14 : 17/18 0.0%
20:35:04 : 18/19 0.0%
20:47:15 : 19/20 0.0%
20:51:42 : 19/21 0.0%
20:51:50 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 19/21 (0.0%)


There will be no encores!

  I am awesome!

No matter what anyone thinks or says, this was the real thing!

People find it so hard to believe.

I WAS THERE!!!!!!!



Sincerely,

El Maestro

ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #11
What's wrong with you?! You sound like you've just won US open or something... Personally, I'm pretty happy not being able to ABX samples at those bitrates. That would certainly turn things around regarding my music collection for my portable.
//From the barren lands of the Northsmen

  • shadowking
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #12
How on earth did we end up with 3.93 ???, what a waste of energy on an obselete version.

There is nothing to get excited about abxing 1 sample at 320kbit. Several weeks ago we found a bad one up to preset extreme. You know this is mp3 as good as it is, its not MPC..
wavpack -b4x4s1c

  • daenyx
  • [*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #13
You're happy that your hearing is not that good?

The reason I'm happy is because I'm a professional musician.  Of course this is important.  Especially because so many implied it was not possible.

It means I've got a lot more juice than most of these blohards.

Thats just like a critic, to try to bring somone down because they can't do, so they critique.

To heck with this.  This is pretty lame. 

Its funny that most of the people in this professional audio forum seem to be not very good at all.

Of course this is not a waste of your time.  Did anyone tell you to keep coming back and read this?

Oh by the way, ABXing on any version of the lame encoder is not pointless. Its an excercise, which I passed with flying colors.

Can any one you say the same?

  • breez
  • [*][*][*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #14
Quote
Of course this is not a waste of your time.  Did anyone tell you to keep coming back and read this?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=294379"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It is a waste of good bandwidth.

You have already been informed about LAME 3.93 bugginess and adviced to use latest builds to check if the problems remain.

  • shadowking
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #15
Yes it is a waste of time - FAQ states recommended Lame encoders and settings, hence no one in these forums cares about anything else.. sorry.

I say it again, I and some others abxed some problem samples at high bitrates. You haven't really found anything outside of this. Go abx MPC insane and see what I mean.
wavpack -b4x4s1c

  • Jan S.
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
ABX test of wav vs Lame 320 cbr Stereo Mode
Reply #16
We do not care what you can do. If you can not contribute to the development of LAME then go away.
Go somewhere else with your useless pissing contest or come back when you have something useful to show.