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Topic: Open Source DVD-Audio project (Read 57336 times) previous topic - next topic
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Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #25
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  Hi Dave. By "channel mapping," I mean that the specs allow for any single audio channel to be specifically directed to any available channel in the speaker setup....
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I haven't found any references confirming what you are saying.  My understanding is that DVD-Audio defines 21 preset channel mappings - and you have to choose from one of those 21 when authoring the disk.

There is only one channel mapping defined for a single-channel audio stream, and that is to map it to speaker "C".  I would expect that in a Stereo environment, the downmixing performed by the DVD-Audio player would map that channel equally to L and R.

Maybe what you are referring to are features of DVD-Audio authoring programs that let you assign any input mono file to any channel - but if you are only providing a single mono file, then your only choice is to map it to C.  Two channels can only go to L and R, and only with three or more channels do you get any choices (L,R,C or L,R,lfe or L,R,S)

The channel-assignment table listing assignments 1 to 21 can be seen here:

[a href="http://www.hodie-world.com/dvdtech2.html]http://www.hodie-world.com/dvdtech2.html[/url]

Dave.
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  I stand corrected, although I was certain I had encountered contradicting information at some point in the past! Still, if the link you provided is accurate (and I have no reason to suppose the author would want it to be anything but accurate) then the situation is exactly as you have described. My apologies.

    - M.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #26
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  I stand corrected, although I was certain I had encountered contradicting information at some point in the past! Still, if the link you provided is accurate (and I have no reason to suppose the author would want it to be anything but accurate) then the situation is exactly as you have described. My apologies.
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Yes, the available information about DVD-Audio is contradictory and vague.

I think the DVD-Audio specs have gone through two or three versions - the current standard is identified as version 1.2 - so maybe this is a cause of the contradictions.

Anyway, no need to apologise - identifying what DVD-Audio can't do is almost as useful as identifying what it can.

I think that link is to some kind of official "public summary" of the DVD-Audio specification.  Extracts from that document appear in lots of places, but the site I quoted contains the most complete version I've found.  So I'm confident about the accuracy.

Dave.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #27
Just to give a status update, I am now listening to the first DVD-Audio disc I've authored using my "dvda-author" authoring program - containing 1.5GB (almost 2.5 hours) of gapless Red-Book 44.1KHz/16-bit audio. 

dvda-author is not quite ready for public consumption (hopefully in the next couple of days), but it can now produce DVD-A discs containing a mixture of 16-bit Stereo audio at different samplerates.

I have only tested 44.1KHz and 48KHz samplerates so far, but dvda-author should work for the others (all the way up to 192KHz).  I then need to implement 20-bit and 24-bit Stereo support before moving onto 6-channel audio.

Dave.
http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #28
Hi,

This project seems really interesting.

If I would use it: - (just to give you a view on what I would like to be able to do with it)-

I would really be interested in using it to encode the audio to MP3, AAC, OGG, and other formats in many different bitrates and at very high quality at each bitrate- time shouldn't matter to much. Mainly, to use in conjunction with VirtualDub to encode avi files.

I have really been looking for a program like this for ever since I've wanted to have the process of encoding video/audio to avi files simplified. And I've wanted to write a guide on it where I could recommend programs that wouldn't be mostly useless or hard to use.


P.S. If anyone else would like to write a guide similar to what I just mentioned, go ahead. I won't be mad that you used my idea. Just think of it as an opensource guide project. The idea is up in the air for anyone to take. The question is just who can make the best guide. And who can get it done first. I might actually never get to it myself.

P.S.S. Thanks to everyone involved in this project. I really appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting into this project.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #29
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Hi,

This project seems really interesting.

If I would use it: - (just to give you a view on what I would like to be able to do with it)-

I would really be interested in using it to encode the audio to MP3, AAC, OGG, and other formats in many different bitrates and at very high quality at each bitrate- time shouldn't matter to much. Mainly, to use in conjunction with VirtualDub to encode avi files.

I have really been looking for a program like this for ever since I've wanted to have the process of encoding video/audio to avi files simplified. And I've wanted to write a guide on it where I could recommend programs that wouldn't be mostly useless or hard to use.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=282268"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


There seems to be a misunderstanding somewhere - what I am currently working on is a program to author DVD-Audio discs.  i.e. the contents of the AUDIO_TS directory on a DVD.  I'm not sure what software you are looking for.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #30
this will forever change the concept of a mix tape

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #31
Excellent work, davechapman.  I'm glad that someone has taken on such a project, because it could be a real boon to the advancement of the audio format.

I would hope that (although unlikely) we'll see some commercially released material in the distant future that is open, and unencrypted.  I'd almost recommend that people don't buy encrypted DVD-As, because they prevent us from exercising our fair use right to make a backup copy, and to listen to it without having the media present.

A couple questions though...
Is there any chance in hell of an open-source MLP variant ever existing?  Something like what LAME is to MP3?

Who thinks that it'd be neat to develop a collaborative project to decrypt DVD-A discs using a distributed computing architecture?  Having unencrypted DVD-A is the only way I'd really want to use it, as nice as the extra fidelity, extra channels, etc. can be.

In any case, being able to author my own DVD-As would be very sweet.  Perhaps someday I can be a starving, super-high tech artist and release open-format DVD-As to my fan(s).

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #32
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Excellent work, davechapman.  I'm glad that someone has taken on such a project, because it could be a real boon to the advancement of the audio format.

I would hope that (although unlikely) we'll see some commercially released material in the distant future that is open, and unencrypted.  I'd almost recommend that people don't buy encrypted DVD-As, because they prevent us from exercising our fair use right to make a backup copy, and to listen to it without having the media present.
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I think that's very unlikely unless the big labels change their outlook, and I can't see that happenning.

Also, for high resolution multi-channel sound, MLP is required (diue to the maximum DVD-Audio bitrate of 9.6Mbit/s).  So even if someoine wanted to produce an "open" DVD-A, they would be limited to either high-resolution Stereo or "mid-resolution" multi-channel.

Given the recent news concerning ALAC, there is no technical reason to think that a similarly motivated and talented person could not do the same to MLP (given access to an encoder).  But that's not part of my project.

I agree with your sentiments about not buying encrypted DVD-A releases - I'm sure that's the single biggest reason for the lack of adoption of the format.  Another reason is the lack of free software to author DVD-As, but that's about to disappear.

Dave.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #33
Great! I bet there are hordes of us waiting for this software. Not that I'd yet have a DVD-A capable player but soon, I guess if this really works.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #34
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Great! I bet there are hordes of us waiting for this software. Not that I'd yet have a DVD-A capable player but soon, I guess if this really works.
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I have just made the first "alpha' release of my DVD-Audio authoring program, dvda-author.  It's available at:

[a href="http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/alpha/]http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/alpha/[/url]

The ZIP file contains both the source code and a pre-compiled windows executable. 

The main development platform is Linux.  It should compile without problems on Mac OS X, but I haven't tested it.

The start of a basic "how-to" is at http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/howto.shtml

The current version is limited to 16-bit Stereo audio at all six DVD-Audio samplerates (44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz, 192KHz), but 20/24-bit audio and multi-channel are next on my to-do list.

For people uncomfortable with command-line programs, I am also working on a GUI version, but that's not high on my priority list at the moment.

Dave.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #35
Woo-Hoo! I will download and try it! Bravo Davechapman!

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #36
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Woo-Hoo! I will download and try it! Bravo Davechapman!
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I created my first DVD Audio disc with dvda-author, but I only can try to play it in two weeks, because my DVD Audio Player is at home in another town.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #37
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I have just made the first "alpha' release of my DVD-Audio authoring program, dvda-author.  It's available at:

http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/alpha/

The ZIP file contains both the source code and a pre-compiled windows executable. 

The main development platform is Linux.  It should compile without problems on Mac OS X, but I haven't tested it.

The start of a basic "how-to" is at http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/howto.shtml

The current version is limited to 16-bit Stereo audio at all six DVD-Audio samplerates (44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz, 192KHz), but 20/24-bit audio and multi-channel are next on my to-do list.

For people uncomfortable with command-line programs, I am also working on a GUI version, but that's not high on my priority list at the moment.

Dave.
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Spiffy. I can test it out in a week or so when I get my desktop back.
"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored."
—Aldous Huxley

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #38
Just a quick update to say that development is continuing and the latest version of dvda-author can now produce DVD-Audio discs containing up to 9 seperate groups of tracks.

Dave.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #39
Hi Dave. A couple of quick questions:

  1) Is the new version (March 23) able to produce gapless playback yet, or is that feature dependent upon indexing?

  2) Once indexing is implemented, will there be some internal way to concatenate and track *.wav files, or would it be simpler to use an outside program (i.e., shntool join -o wav *.wav combined with shntool cue *.wav > joined.cue)?

  Beautiful work you are doing! I'm amazed it took anyone this long to attempt such a project, but glad to know that it's finally being done right.

    - M.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #40
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Hi Dave. A couple of quick questions:

  1) Is the new version (March 23) able to produce gapless playback yet, or is that feature dependent upon indexing?


The behaviour of dvda-author (since the very first release) has always  been gapless - I wouldn't author discs any other way.

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  2) Once indexing is implemented, will there be some internal way to concatenate and track *.wav files, or would it be simpler to use an outside program (i.e., shntool join -o wav *.wav combined with shntool cue *.wav > joined.cue)?


I may support cue files in the future, but for now, you simply do "dvda-author -o DVD -g *.wav" and that will give you gapless playback - if the WAV files are all the same format (samplerate, bitdepth etc).  You can use multiple (up to 9) "-g *.wav" options to specify up to 9 different groups of tracks.

Within one group, you can have a completely random selection of audio formats - you are not limited to a single format (either by dvda-author or the DVD-A standard) to a single audio format per group.

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  Beautiful work you are doing! I'm amazed it took anyone this long to attempt such a project, but glad to know that it's finally being done right.


I think it's the old problem - no-one was interested in authoring DVD-Audio discs because no-one (knowlingly) has a player, and no-one bought the players because there was no easy (and free) way to author your own discs.

Dave.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #41
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The behaviour of dvda-author (since the very first release) has always  been gapless - I wouldn't author discs any other way.

I may support cue files in the future, but for now, you simply do "dvda-author -o DVD -g *.wav" and that will give you gapless playback - if the WAV files are all the same format (samplerate, bitdepth etc).   You can use multiple (up to 9) "-g *.wav" options to specify up to 9 different groups of tracks.

Within one group, you can have a completely random selection of audio formats - you are not limited to a single format (either by dvda-author or the DVD-A standard) to a single audio format per group.

  Ah! Good to know... I was under the impression (since I have not yet been able to properly test the authoring software against a compliant device) that gapless playback was forthcoming, but did not realize it had already been achieved.

  But are you saying the only limitation to gapless playback is continuity of formatting? That I could, within the same group, have a mono track back-to-back with a stereo track, which is in turn adjacent to a 5.1 mix? Although such a combination would not play gaplessly, I failed to realize that it would even be possible to author that combination.

  This prompts another question:

  3) Does the authoring tool currently support monophonic/single-channel content, or will that be added with the yet-to-accomplish multi-channel capabilities?

    - M.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #42
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  3) Does the authoring tool currently support monophonic/single-channel content, or will that be added with the yet-to-accomplish multi-channel capabilities?
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Strange you should ask.  I've just released a new alpha (20050323c) which does just that - adds support for single-channel (mono) audio.

So dvda-author now supports 16-bit mono or stereo files at all supported samplerates (44.1KHz up to 192KHz).

Dave.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #43
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... So dvda-author now supports 16-bit mono or stereo files at all supported samplerates (44.1KHz up to 192KHz).
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Again, beautiful. Just one more quick question (unless, of course, I think of another one...  ):

  4) Is the DVD-A spec limited to 99 audio files per group, or was that merely an early limitation of the authoring software... and by extension, would indexing avoid such a limitation, if it exists?

    - M.

Edit: Ignore the question above, since I found clarification. But that in turn changes the question! The [a href="http://patches.sonic.com/pdf/white-papers/wp_dvd_audio.pdf]Sonic White Paper[/url] (see below) indicates - assuming I understand correctly - that *.wav files, as they are currently being added, qualify as "titles." But the limitation you specified in your announcement of the software seemed to indicate they were being treated as "tracks." Or have I misunderstood?

  The revised question 4 would be, "If I have a few hundred songs in a collection, and would like the option to 'Play All,' must I concatenate subsets into single tracks and divide them with indices to accomplish this goal?" Obviously, if groups will not automatically segue from one to the next, simply grouping would not be a satisfactory solution.

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Logical Structure: Albums, Groups and Tracks
DVD-Audio players that read AMG (all except simple Audio-only players) are able to take advantage of DVD-Audio’s capacity to organize material hierarchically rather than simply linearly. This logical hierarchy exists in parallel to the format’s data structure. It is based on five different levels: album, group, title, track and index.

Each side of a DVD-Audio disc contains one album. Each album may contain up to nine groups, each of which is essentially a playlist specifying the playback order of a number of titles. While any title may contain up to 99 tracks, there may be no more than 99 tracks total within a single group.

As on a CD, a track may be thought of as a single audio program (i.e. a song). Audio attributes such as channel configuration, sample-rate, and word-length may be changed on track boundaries (players may mute during such attribute changes). An index is a reference point to a portion of an audio track (cell), and there may be up to 99 indices within a single track.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #44
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Edit: Ignore the question above, since I found clarification. But that in turn changes the question! The Sonic White Paper (see below) indicates - assuming I understand correctly - that *.wav files, as they are currently being added, qualify as "titles." But the limitation you specified in your announcement of the software seemed to indicate they were being treated as "tracks." Or have I misunderstood?


dvda-author works by concatenating consecutive tracks with the same audio format into a title.  So if you author a group from WAV files A, B, C, D and E, where A-C are 16-bit 48KHz Stereo and D and E are 16-bit 44.1KHz Stereo, then dvda-author will create two titles, containing 3 and 2 tracks respectively.

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  The revised question 4 would be, "If I have a few hundred songs in a collection, and would like the option to 'Play All,' must I concatenate subsets into single tracks and divide them with indices to accomplish this goal?" Obviously, if groups will not automatically segue from one to the next, simply grouping would not be a satisfactory solution.
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This is an issue that's been briefly discussed on the dvd-audio-devel mailing list.  As you seem to be saying, DVD-Audio players can't automatically continue playback from the end of one group to the start of the next.

But I don't think indexes are the answer - as far as I know, DVD-Audio players don't navigate based on indexes, they navigate based on tracks.

Dave.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #45
Great project, it already does more & better than for instance Uleads 99$ Burn.Now


Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #47
Great job, this should be nice program for changing vinyls to digital format with very good quality.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #48
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I created my first DVD Audio disc with dvda-author, but I only can try to play it in two weeks, because my DVD Audio Player is at home in another town.
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I just played my test DVD Audio disc with Panasonic DVD-RA82 player. It works perfectly! The test disc was created with dvda-author 2005 03 19 release, and disc contains 3 groups. Great!
I've noticed that new release support flac as input file, which is also great. Do you plan to support cue/wav or cue/flac images as input file? For example one group would be created from a cue/wav image, and dvda-author itself will create tracks based on cue sheet information.

Open Source DVD-Audio project

Reply #49
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I've noticed that new release support flac as input file, which is also great. Do you plan to support cue/wav or cue/flac images as input file? For example one group would be created from a cue/wav image, and dvda-author itself will create tracks based on cue sheet information.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=286343"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yes, but not immediately.  There are other, more important things to do first, like the GUI and multi-channel support.

For now, you will have to use something like shntool to split the WAV or FLAC into individual files, and then author the DVD-A using those.

Dave.