Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: Buying a new PC (Read 5346 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Buying a new PC

Hi. My brother is buying a new PC, so he requested my advice. Since I'm not in touch with new hardware on a daily basis, I'd like to read the opinion of HA members currently selling/assemblying/testing PCs or hardware enthusiasts really in the matter.

I do read hardware reviews sites but I trust you better. 

We are talking about a relatively "tight budget" PC here, forget about fancy watercooling dreams.
After analyzing various setups, I need to know if there is a big difference betwen the following:

First Setup: Based on ASUS A7V8X-X motherboard (FSB 333MHz, UltraDMA 133) with AMD Sempron 2600+ processor, 256MB DDR (Kingston), some IDE 7200RPM 80GB HDD, hopefully Seagate.

Second Setup: Based on ASUS K8V-X motherboard (FSB 800MHz, SATA) with AMD Sempron 3100+ processor, 256MB DDR (Kingston), some SATA 7200RPM 80GB HDD, hopefully Seagate.

In both cases I'm thinking about a video card based on GeForce FX5200 chip with 128MB DDR (probably ASUS V9520 Magic).

Also he wants a CD-RW drive and a separate DVD-ROM unit (any recommended brands/models based on your recent experience? There are mostly Sony and LG around here).

Audio is integrated in the mobo and its more than enough for his needs I think.

Do you think the VIA chipsets on these ASUS are reliable?. I trust ASUS but not so much VIA.

This will not be destinated to intensive DOOM3 gaming or heavy, time critical multimedia  encoding/editing; most demanding game he'd use would be GTA Vice City or similar, not caring much for future or current super fancy games.


I know there are newer and better machines, I just want to get the best possible PC available around here for the money he wants to spend (around 650 to a max. 800 USD). Local prices are a bit higher than those of USA/Europe.

Thanks for reading

Buying a new PC

Reply #1 –
Take the second setup, and make it 512MB RAM. That Sempron 3100+--a A64 2800+ would be better if they aren't too much more--less than 10% difference in the US--will wipe the floor with the socket-A counterpart in every thing you throw at it.

For video, if the FX 5200 is cheap, that'll be fine.

VIA chipsets should be OK, but I'd trust a NF3 250 as well. SiS would be even better, but no really high quality mobos are based on the 755/760 .

If Sony (often Lie-On) and LG optical drives are easy to get and not too expensive, go for them, as neither will be bad.

Lastly, get a decent PSU. I don't know what you'll have available, but a Antec (Channel Well), OCZ (?), Fortron (a Fortron FSp-xxx would be a good value, but avoid ATX-xxx), Sparkle (a FSP-xxx will be one of the Fortron PSUs, and the ATX-xxx will not be good), Enermax, PCP&P, Enlight (Hipower), Thermaltake (Hipower), or Solverstone (Enhance) would be good brands. A 300w will be plenty, but it needs to be a quality one, or there's a good chance it'll bite you later on.

Buying a new PC

Reply #2 –
Definitely the second setup. If you don't trust VIA (i can understand that), get a board which uses the nForce3 250; the MSI K8N Neo Platinum is a good choice.

As for the FX5200, i wouldn't buy it, unless you can get it on eBay for less than 25 dollars. It's the same thing as with hard disks: The next step above it doesn't cost that much more, but it's better value for money. For the graphics card, i'd recommend a Radeon 9600 here. For the HD, a 120 GB model, maybe even 160 GB, (preferrably SATA). Why? Example with IDE: Cheapest local price for a Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 160GB: 69 Euros = 0.43 Euro/GB. Cheapest for a Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 120GB: 62.50 Euros = 0.52 Euro/GB. And for a Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 80GB: 46 Euros = 0.57 Euro/GB.

Buying a new PC

Reply #3 –
From the reviews I´ve read, I strongly agree with both of you. The Sempron 3100+ beats (sometimes by far) any of the Socket-A based Semprons (2800+ and lower). It´s a machine with much brighter future if it has a 3100+. That was the way I used to think when buying my machines in the old days, when economy wasn´t so awfully sick.

The problem is, the cost of the Sempron 3100+, plus the cost of the mobo required for it (be it VIA or nForce chipset) is quite higher than the cheaper 2600+ and cheaper Socket A motherboards.

I´m even thinking of getting an nForce2 based ASUS mobo with GF4 MX integrated to make it cheaper. Believe it or not, the ASUS V9520 Magic GF FX 5200 128MB DDR is ninety dollars around here.

Example:  Sempron 2600+ is $112 --- ASUS A7N8X-VM (nForce2 + GF4 MX) is $109 , then we make it $221 for both.

                Sempron 2600+ is $112 --- ASUS A7V8X-X (VIA KT400) is $74 --- ASUS V9520 Magic is $90, a total of $276 

                Sempron 3100+ is $188 --- ASUS K8V-X (VIA K8T800) is $110, then we make it $298, plus a $50 cheap card makes a total of $348.

In any case it would be very stupid to put a $50 card with that Sempron 3100+ I think. If any demanding application would be used at all, it´d be a game so...guess I´ll go with the FX 5200.

The price goes up when we add screen, case, CD-RW, DVD-ROM, memory, HDD etc, I just realized it exceeds $800 by a nice amount in case of the Sempron 3100+ setup. Not even dreaming of 512MB RAM (+55 dollars) or 160GB SATA HDD (a hell of a lot more).

The difference is not reasonable for the purposes the machine will serve.

Many people makes around $200 a month here right now, so get an idea of why the budget is so tight.  In any case my brother seems happier with buying cheaper even if it´s slower.

Edit:
      Arranged some numbers. And forgot to say thank you

Buying a new PC

Reply #4 –
The socket-A Semprons are PR based on the Celeron D.
So a Sempron 2800+ ebout even with a Barton 2500+.
Also, the Athlon64 parts in general are speedy, with plenty of HT bandwidth to spare.

The Athlon64 2800+, if not more expensive, would be good. Same chip with more cache enabled, and able to use x86-64 and NX. IIRC, the Semprons have NX bit support and x86-64 support turned off.

non-gaming benches

NF2 IGP is the only integrated I'd recommend, as (with dual-channel RAM) it isn't much slower than having a video card, where ATI, SiS, VIA, and Intel solutions are (and mainly, they feel it). Also, with a socket-A, you won't have to worry *as much* about a PSU. With a socket-754, you'd be stupid not to get a good one (in the US, the Fortron FSP-300 can be had for under $40, but it still adds cost). I wouldn't have a PSU of unknown quality in a gaming box with socket-A stuff, but most newer ones will do well for lesser appliations.

For a video card, if gaming isn't your thing, a Radeon 9550SE, 9200SE, or even Radeon 7000, would be fine.

A typical ATA HDD is thousand of times slower than RAM. Once you eat up your RAM, you go to the HDD all the time, bogging the PC down. A PII 500 with a new HDD and half a gig of RAM would be better than that 3100+ w/ 256B RAM in web and office apps. For new parts, a Sempron 2200+ (AthlonXP 1800+) with 512MB would be a nice balance. I have a 1800+ and 512MB RAM, and have no problems for non-gaming tasks, save that LAME could encode a bit faster....

If possible, make the 512MB 2x256MB to help with the NF2 IGP (with dual-channel DDR, the NF2 IGP offers desktop performance dead even with the actual GF4 MX cards).

Buying a new PC

Reply #5 –
I don't know how it goes there but in the US I was leaning to building but unless you have substantail parts already to reuse it is cheaper to buy ready made. 

I recently got for US$700: an HP with Asus MB, Athlon64 3200, 512 mb pc3200 memory, 160 GB drive, dual layer 8x DVD writer plus another read-only drive,  a bunch of formats of flash card slots (I only use SD), WinXP, and all the other stuff that normally comes with a computer except monitor and speakers.

Start adding up part costs (plus case and PS) and you will run past $700 way before you have a system.  I could have got more of a stripped down (but still functional) A64 for a bit over $500.

I think the same economies hold (but more so) for lower performing CPU's because a lower percent of system cost is performance related hardware.

Buying a new PC

Reply #6 –
Quote
I think the same economies hold (but more so) for lower performing CPU's because a lower percent of system cost is performance related hardware.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=266254"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You've also got the fact that encoding media and gaming are the only things that really push home PCs. With anything better than a Duron or Celeron (and Prescott Celerons only suck because of the price), RAM capcity and HDD speed are the biggest bottlenecks. Power users will appreciate the extra speed of a A64, but most users, aleready being used to slow PCs bogged down w/ crap, or being slower than the PC (if you can't react faster than the PC can can give you output, you don't need a faster one), will notice increased RAM (if needed) or a faster HDD much more than getting a CPU that do 4x the number crunching. When dealing with web browsing and office, the HDD is performance-related hardware, where the video card and CPU are much less so.

For modern desktop use, increasingly bloated software is the main reason for faster CPUs.

Buying a new PC

Reply #7 –
Suppose I buy something like the Asus A7N8X-VM  (GF4 MX integrated). Does it come with its own video RAM (and how much?) or does it use exclusively the system RAM for video?.  I can´t find this info on ASUS.com.

Maybe as you say its better to go with 512MB RAM saving money with this cheaper video integrated setup. He will use it to watch DVDs so will that work ok?.

Another question: ASUS ATI 9600SE/TD vs. ASUS based on GF FX 5200 , what would you buy?  (I know citay recommended 9600, but 9600SE is another matter...)

Buying a new PC

Reply #8 –
It uses system RAM for video. For non-3d stuff, 16MB or so should be fine (memory allocated for the video is set in the BIOS). It will be fine for DVDs as long as the monitor will be used to watch them--a cheap video card usually has TV outputs, but not a mobo.

For a desktop user, I'd get the 9600SE. For a light gamer, 9600. The FX 5200 will perform in games about at the level of a 9600SE. So the FX 5200 would be cheaper for the performance. If you have to penny-pinch, though, just go with NF2 integrated--you can always  add a AGP video card to that NF2 IGP motherboard.

Buying a new PC

Reply #9 –
An FX5200 at 90 dollars is way overpriced. They are sold on eBay here for 25 euros to 40 Euros (~33 to 50 USD). A Radeon 9550 (128 bit version) sells for 55 Euros new (~72 USD) and it's already faster than any FX5200.

Buying a new PC

Reply #10 –
Because my brother wanted to buy the thing last tuesday, didn't have time to read replies posted after my last post.

The system he bought:

Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe (nForce2 Ultra 400MHz FSB, SATA, dual channel memory, 1Gbps LAN (2 ports), IEEE1394 (2 ports), AGP 8X, etc.)
Processor: AMD Sempron 2600+
Memory: Kingston 256MB DDR 400MHz
HDD: SATA 80GB 7200RPM (brand depends on availability, they said Western Digital is most probable)
Video: ASUS ATI Radeon 9600SE/TD 128MB DDR (64bit memory interface instead of 9600's 128bits)
CD-RW drive: Sony 52/32/52 OEM
DVD-ROM drive: Sony 16/40 OEM
Screen: Samsung 793DF (CRT 17" flat screen)
PSU: 500W, don't know the brand. Seemed reliable at first sight.
Case: Fancy black ATX case with transparent acrylic and an 80mm fan at one side. Only reason to choose this more expensive case was the much better PSU that comes with it.


With four fans total (CPU, video, PSU and case) I guess it'll be far from silent.
Audio is integrated on the motherboard , says "Realtek ALC650 6-Channel CODEC
Integrated APU(Audio Processor Unit), Dolby Digital (AC-3) Encoder, S/PDIF in / out interface". Can't be that bad for a non-audiophile.

Memory might be upgraded to 512MB several months later, only if needed.

Athlon 3100+ wasn't available at the place he wanted to buy, plus he considered 2600+ more than enough for his needs.

Personally was going for the GF FX 5200, but since citay said 9600 is better...the salesman, who looked more like a truck driver (no offense against them) recommended FX 5200 against 9600SE, even when FX was 20 dollars cheaper. Hope 9600SE is almost as good as 9600 and can decode DVD. I gave it for granted.

My only fear is they lie and put some unreliable HDD...i'll have to check it out.

The price reached $793, near the $800 limit he had in mind. Told you prices were considerably higher than USA/Europe. Checked many local retail stores.
There are sites like ebay here, prices are lower but when investing this kind of money sometimes is hard to trust. Plus 99% of sellers are located in Buenos Aires (60Km from here). Would have to go there for any troubles....

Would you recommend Win2000 against XP?. Never used any of them in an intensive way.  (forgot to say it comes with a blank HDD, well known hardware stores don't pirate software anymore).

Edit: Found an FX5200 for $66 on mercadolibre.com.ar. The Radeon 9600SE is at almost the same price we got ($109).

Buying a new PC

Reply #11 –
Win2k over XP...depends: which is cheaper?
For actual use, the only difference is that Win2k is easier for power users to deal with, as there aren't a hundred things that need turning off, and you won't get fancy window skinning.

Win2k quickly became such a corporate staple that drivers are no problem at all, nor stability or compatibility in any other sense. XP will get more future updates, though.

Buying a new PC

Reply #12 –
Price doesn´t matter.
Compatibility, ease of set up, configuration and use, lesser RAM usage, availability of drivers. And stability of course. And be able to play games too.

Thanks for the replies Cerbie.

Buying a new PC

Reply #13 –
Sure, 9600SE can decode DVD. I must say, $109 is indeed expensive, you could get a normal 9600 for that here. About the OS, i would definitely recommend XP. Try to get a version with integrated SP2 (Service Pack 2), they should be selling those now. Otherwise you have to install SP2 seperately before you go online for the first time.

Buying a new PC

Reply #14 –
Tested the PC yesterday. I was in a dead end for hours trying to install XP, because didn´t seem to recongnize the HDD. Later discovered I had to bypass installation with F6 and install a SATA-RAID driver in the early stages of WinXP installation. The driver came in the motherboard´s drivers CD, but you can only install the driver from floppy.
Lucky I had another machine to read manuals, etc.
Installed WinXP SP1, maybe SP2 doesn´t have this problem. Will update later.

The HDD they shipped is a Hitachi Deskstar. The name gave me a chill, even if it isn´t just plain IBM.

The 9600SE works pretty well. Much more than enough. Really high performance compared to what I was used to (GF4 MX440).

Buying a new PC

Reply #15 –
Quote
The HDD they shipped is a Hitachi Deskstar. The name gave me a chill, even if it isn´t just plain IBM.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=267193"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


IF its the same design and same factory with same employees...

Buying a new PC

Reply #16 –
Quote
Quote
The HDD they shipped is a Hitachi Deskstar. The name gave me a chill, even if it isn´t just plain IBM.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=267193"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


IF its the same design and same factory with same employees...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=267239"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


But the "Deathstar" problem (some fluid building up in front of the head IIRC) is long solved...

About SATA: Yes, you need the F6 method for most SATA solutions. The only ones where you don't need it are Intel's integrated southbridge SATA solutions, ICH5(/R) and ICH6(/R) - but if you run the ICH6 southbridge in AHCI mode (to enable Native Command Queueing and Hotplugging), it also needs the F6 method.

Definitely install SP2 before you go online with that PC.

Buying a new PC

Reply #17 –
Quote
Definitely install SP2 before you go online with that PC.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=267247"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


problematic if SP2 is gotten online.  Program your firewall to only talk to microsoft before going online and until updates are finished?

Buying a new PC

Reply #18 –
Quote
Quote

Definitely install SP2 before you go online with that PC.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


problematic if SP2 is gotten online.  Program your firewall to only talk to microsoft before going online and until updates are finished?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=267249"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Microsoft sends you an SP2 CD [a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/sp2/cdorder/en_us/default.mspx]free of charge[/url]. It was also included on many magazine CDs.

Buying a new PC

Reply #19 –
Thanks for the advice. Not going to go online with this machine anytime soon, but will install XP SP2 from a CD ASAP.

Buying a new PC

Reply #20 –
I´ve requested the WinXP SP2 patch to Microsoft, thanks for the link Citay.

The name on the product they are sending is "Windows XP Professional SP2 Spanish Patch CD Web Only Pro/Home"

My question is....what does the "Web Only" part mean?. I thought that maybe you must be online to activate the patch, i.e. you can´t install the patch without some kind of password or something else obtained online.

Since I´m planning to install this patch on a machine without an internet connection, I wonder if it´s possible to do it being offline. I guess maybe somebody around here has experience in the matter.

Thanks!

Buying a new PC

Reply #21 –
I could install it without an active internet connection at a friend's place; the CD looked like this.

Buying a new PC

Reply #22 –
Thanks
 

Buying a new PC

Reply #23 –
I am thinking that an external sound card might do it for this guy.  I use an Extigy - not the best I have read but it is way cool for me - and there are other external sound cards that can run through the USB port(s).  That would seem to do it.  Get the IBM and a good external sound card.  Lots of advice around here on sound cards.  Some of it good. 
Nov schmoz kapop.