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Topic: MiniDisc or MP3 player? (Read 27422 times) previous topic - next topic
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MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Hello everybody, stumbled across this site while researching Minidisc players. I'm hoping some of you can help me. I'm just about to start  a year long course and will be commuting to and fro everyday for about 2 hours each way. I'm trying to figure out which audio system is better suited for me. I don't know whether to get an MP3 player or a Sony MiniDisc recorder/player. The music I want to listen to is MP3 and WMA format and I would like to have both formats available to me. Also, My computer is an older, 14G (don't laugh, it was free) Emachines and I'm wondering how to get the music files out of my computer onto whichever music machine (mp3 or MiniDisc) I buy. I also collect vinyl (remember the 12" round things your parents played music on?) and was wondering if I can plug my record player into a Minidisc recorder/ player and record from vinyl. Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Graham

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #1 –
Since you indicated that the format you want are MP3 and WMA, then get an MP3 player. Minidisc is NOT an MP3 player. Minidisc uses Sony's own propietary format, Atrac. If your collection is in MP3 already, then it makes more sense to just get an MP3 player. Going MD means that you have to reconvert all you music to Atrac.

As for vinyl, you can transfer the music to your PC through the line-in of your soundcard. In this case, MD may be more versatile since a mid-range MD portable recorder with a line-in can record the music directly without going through your PC.

It all depends on your needs. If you really need Minidisc's recording capabilities, then go for it. HiMD units are available now, which offer more storage than the old MD. Just remember to get a unit with a line-in. Low-en MD/HiMD units don't have line-in jack.
twitter.com/pika2000

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #2 –
can't I just record onto a minidisc from my computer? I was under the impression that you can record mp3s onto minidisc, is this not so?

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #3 –
also, how do i hear and record my vinyl onto my computer? when i plug into the line-in on the back, nothing happens

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #4 –
Quote
can't I just record onto a minidisc from my computer? I was under the impression that you can record mp3s onto minidisc, is this not so?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=236319"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This requires Sony's software (sonicstage). MD uses Atrac, not MP3. So before transferring your music, you have to convert your MP3s to Atrac with Sonicstage on your PC, then the software will transfer the music to your MD unit. Note that as for now, all MD/HiMD units only operates within USB 1.1 speed. Keep this in mind when transferring a lot of music, especially with the new 1GB HiMD unit. Many MP3 players support USB2.0 already, which will make transferring a breeze.
twitter.com/pika2000

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #5 –
hmmm, in my travels online researching this topic, I read that as long as I play the mp3 while recording with a minidisc, there aren't any problems.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #6 –
I believe you didn't understand. Nobody said that you would have problems. MD will work fine with your MP3.

pika just said that IF you get a MP3 player you wouldn't have to convert your songs in MP3/WMA to sony's ATRAC format (that makes more sense to me...).

BTW, it's possible to make the recording while playing the MP3 files, as you described, but I don't see why you would want to do that: it's much slower and the files will be transcoded to ATRAC anyway...

hope this helps...

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #7 –
so, if i get a minidisc, and plug it in to my comp, play the mp3 file i want to record, press record on the minidisc, it will record fine?

are you guys saying that if i want to record mp3s WITHOUT using real time recording, ( in other words, faster than realtime) i have to get something to alter the format to the sony whatever the hell it? atact or whatever you called it?

now, if i do record by just playing the track and pressing record, is my mp3 file going to change into the whatever it is format you mentioned ON MY COMPUTER? or will it only change on the minidisc itself? I'm kinda lost here, i was under the impression that i can just plug the minidisc into my comp, play the tracks I want to record and record.


thanx to all for putting up with my stupid questions, but you've been very helpful actually, and i appreciate it. I don't like the idea of buying an mp3 player that needs multiple sound cards (which are expensive) that i can't alter without plugging into my comp. the minidisc sounds easier and more versatile to me as I'd also like to record from tapes and vinyl as well.

thanks again everyone, up until a year ago, I could barely turn a computer on.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #8 –
I'll try to clear it up for you:

1. Yes it will record fine but, if you do have the MP3/WMA files stored in your computer, i don't see any advantage on doing real time recording.

2.  With or without real time recording you HAVE to convert you music from MP3/WMA format to ATRAC (a kind of MP3) format. MD players ONLY play ATRAC format. With real time recording the MD player itself will convert for you. Without real time recording you will need a software, either the one provided with the MD player or Sonic Stage (I would recommend the last one. google for it.).

3. Either with real time recording or without it your original MP3/WMA files will not be altered. If using the Sonic Stage software it will create new files based on the original ones and transfer them to the MD via USB. If using real time recording the files will be saved directly in the MD.
If you are interested in MD you'll find lots of info in Minidisc.org, but beware that this site is really biased, IMO, so take everything they say with the usual grain of salt...

4. I really do not understand your comment regarding MP3 players and multiple soundcards... I don't see the link between MP3 players and soundcards you're trying do make...

Other very good info resource is the FAQ here at HA.

Other thing: do not assume that MDs are a panacea either and will suit all your needs without doing extensive research on the subject. Read a lot before purchasing anything is my advice for you...

EDIT: grammar

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #9 –
I have 4 Minidisc players (portable, car, main deck, and CD/MD dubbing deck).  I've recorded about 60 discs.

But I rarely use any of these players any more since I got a Rio Karma.  An MP3 player is much more convenient (and the Karma also plays WMA, Ogg Vorbis, and FLAC).

Minidisc is certainly easy to use.  Just plug an analog or digital source into it and hit record (after setting the record levels).  A few of my discs were made from vinyl and cassettes.

With an MP3 player, you of course need to get your music onto your computer first.  I don't use Windows much, but I've got to believe that there are dozens of applications you can find which will let you generate digital audio files from analog sources.

In fact, I just searched for "record audio" at versiontracker.com and got 70 hits.  Something there should work for you.

One one Mindisc, you can record about 20 songs.  On my Karma, I have about 3400 songs.  That's why the Karma rides with me to work every morning.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #10 –
Quote
One one Mindisc, you can record about 20 songs.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=236346"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I should have noted that I purchased all of my Minidisc players before the advent of MDLP (and ATRAC3 encoding), and you can store more than 20 songs on a current model (up to 320 minutes, I believe).

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #11 –
Though MD was my first foray into digital compressed audio back in the 90's, and despite the fact that I still use MD occasionally, I would not recommend getting into the format at this late date. grahamt98, you're better off getting an MP3 player and recording your analog sources with your computer.

Like it or not, MD is on its way to obsolescence. MiniDisc was meant to be a replacement for the cassette tape, not a "digital audio player" by the likes of our current 21st century standards.
ATRAC itself is an inferior and obsolete format, as my own and some other user's tests have shown: at 292kbps, it's as good as a 192kbps MP3 at best, maybe even less. ATRAC3 @132kbps (LP2) solidly lost to every other modern ~128kbps format out there in Roberto's recent listening test, and the 66kbps LP4 mode (i.e., the "320 minute" deal) sounds like a cassette tape that was eaten and barfed up by a dog. In short, it's absolutely useless for music, save for very noisy listening environments. For line-in recording (either S/PDIF or analog), only SP mode has any value as a recording tool. These days, 80 minutes of near-CD music per piece of media is not very convenient for portable use when players like the iPod hold hundreds of hours of comparable-quality audio without the need to carry a case of discs. For live recording off of analog sources or concerts, MP3 recorders now exist that allow for upload of recorded audio onto a computer, something which MD cannot do unless one records in real-time via their soundcard.

Sound quality aside, you then have the issue of a format that was never popular in the US and many other countries outside of the Far East, so discs and equipment are hard to find offline, whereas MP3 players, blank CD's, and flash chips are so ubiquitous as to be found in the corner drugstore these days. Then there's the whole Net-MD business: to move your CD's onto the player, you are held hostage to the absolute rubbish, buggy, DRM-infested software, and the whole process takes considerably longer than moving MP3's to an MP3 player. Or, you're forced to record in real-time using a CD deck, which is time consuming and tedious. Sony's new 1GB "Hi-MD" isn't much of an improvement: the only thing that has changed is a bigger media capacity and the choice of using ATRAC3plus, which again is not a very impressive format when compared to other modern codecs like MPC, AAC, and Vorbis. Transfer times are still horrifyingly slow (500KB/sec), the software still sucks, and you are still forced to transcode your files to ATRAC, which takes time and kills quality.

MD is still popular in Japan, but IMO, that will soon change. Once iTunes and other EMD services make it to Japan (where MD is popular due to the fact that most people rent, not purchase, CD's), I predict that MD will start to fade away there as well. Recent articles discussing the cult-like popularity of Apple's players over there suggest that this is already beginning to happen. In short, I would suggest giving MD a pass. If you'd like to record from LP's and things, either use your computer or maybe even look into an MP3 recorder (I have one from iRiver that works great).

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #12 –
Quote
Like it or not, MD is on its way to obsolescence. MiniDisc was meant to be a replacement for the cassette tape, not a "digital audio player" by the likes of our current 21st century standards.
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It's too bad that Sony marketed the MD as "a companion to audio CDs". Had they promoted it as an ideal replacement for cassettes, it might've become more popular.

I agree with everything you say though. I stopped using, and eventually sold my MD recorder simply because the mp3 format is much more convenient and versatile. It's less expensive too.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #13 –
thanx again for all the responses, this is great info.

how much does a mp3 player that I can plug into my stereo cost?

isn't it true that with mp3 players, you have to purchase different memory cards if you want to store more music? and what do these cost?

i know the iPod is on sale right now for $350, but that's out of my price range.

my price range is: $200.00 (that includes any thing I need to 'record' onto. example: discs; minidiscs; memory cards or chips or whatever they're called.

i listen to music all the time, and need something relatively easy to use, within my price range, that can hold a shitload of songs.

thanks again guys and girls, i really appreciate all you cyberaudiophiles helping out this beginner

graham

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #14 –
also, my ancient, 14 GB computer doesn't accept 2.0 USB stuff, only the older USB... 1.1 or whatever it is.


imagine my surprise when i saw that RIO player is 20GBs!!! more than my whole comp!!!! lol

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #15 –
There are several different sorts of mp3 player, the only common link is that they play the mp3 format.

There are  :-

1) Flash memory based players with fixed memory (non upgradable) the memory size that you buy is all it can ever have. Although obviously you can delete the files and write new ones. They get quite expensive for a relatively small capacity, have the advantage as with all flash based players that the music cannot jump or skip. eg most budget mp3 players, creative muvo2 x-trainer.

2) Flash memory based players with no internal memory and for which you will need to buy memory cards. There are several completely different types of memory card and most players only accept one type. Has the advantage that you can get more space for files at a later date, but the disadvantage that usually you can only use one card at a time so the older smaller card probably will just gather dust. Uncommon

3) Flash memory based players with an internal memory that can also accept additional memory cards. (a combination of 1+2). If you can get by on just the internal memory initially it has the advantage that you can add memory cards later for more space.

4) Mini hard drive players, these store files on mini hard drives usually 1Gb to 5Gb capacity at the moment, likely to increase. Have the advantage of greater capacity than flash based players, but unlike flash players could possibly jump or skip as they use a hard drive. They have various degrees of shock protection to reduce this problem. Also larger than flash players. Whichever hard drive size they have is fixed for almost all users. e.g Ipod mini, rio eigen, rio nitrus, creative muvo2

5) Mini hard drive recorders, haven't actually seen any of these yet but sure they must be either around and I've missed them or one their way shortly. Same as 4 but can record from erxternal source.

6) hard drive players. Larger than the mini players in both physical in your hand size and capacity, currently upto 60Gb, but otherwise the same. Again capacity is pretty much fixed at what you buy. ipod, creative nomad zen (extra), rio karma

7) hard drive recorders as 6 but can record from external sources. eg iriver h120, iriver h140, creative zen extra, archos gmini

8) portable media player as the hard drive players but have a video screen and can play video files as well as audio, very new, quite expensive.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #16 –
You could also consider a portable CD player that supports mp3 file playback from a CD-R or CD-RW. The cheaper ones start at around $50 (US).

Sure, you'd be limited to only 700mb per disc, but it's a lot cheaper than an iPod.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?scoring=...e&sa=N&start=50

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #17 –
USB 2.0 Flash memory is amazing as far as speed, durability & size, are there any disadvantages?

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #18 –
@Grahamt:

Since no one pointed out specifically: Transcoding from one format into another will severely decrease your music quality. ATRAC may be even worse than MP3 but converting from MP3 to ATRAC will result in a much worse quality (than e.g. converting the original source into ATRAC).

So if your original songs (MP3) are rather bad quality (<160 kbps) don't bother converting them into ATRAC, because that will cause artifacts that are likely to be heard in portable (=headphone) use. Once you notice them, they will annoy you.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #19 –
Quote
You could also consider a portable CD player that supports mp3 file playback from a CD-R or CD-RW. The cheaper ones start at around $50 (US).

scoring=p&q=mp3+cd+player&btnG=Search+Froogle&sa=N&start=50]http://froogle.google.com/froogle?scoring=...e&sa=N&start=50[/url]
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Damn missed one, well two really, there are smaller mini cd mp3 players too, using 8cm cd's instead of 12cm ones. I should really have remembered that one as I have one.

Both do have the possible problem of skipping, but again usually have large buffers to reduce this problem.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #20 –
Quote
can't I just record onto a minidisc from my computer? I was under the impression that you can record mp3s onto minidisc, is this not so?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=236319"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Your connect your Net/Hi-MD unit to your computer, start Sony's Sonic Stage software, import your files and select transfer when SS transcodes your music into Atrac3(plus) and transfers it to Mini disc somewhat faster than real-time.
I find the new Hi-MD players a good option. 1 Gb discs = 8 hours of atrac3plus @ 256 or 16 h of Atrac3 132.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #21 –
This is such a good thread. You folk have really gone to lot of trouble to explain things - and clearly too.

For my part I am still using MDs. I have several drawerfulls of the things and use my MD every day to and from work (journey time 75mins each way which is handy for MDs).

Reading this thread I think I aught to start looking at portable MP3 players - my CD collection is on my PC.

Cygnus X1, you chose the iRiver. I like the look of that. What did you get, any regrets (yea I should have got the bigger one!)

Once again thanks for such good answers.

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #22 –
Quote
Cygnus X1, you chose the iRiver. I like the look of that. What did you get, any regrets (yea I should have got the bigger one!)

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I bought the 128MB IFP-380T in January from Best Buy, since there was a $30 rebate available at the time. I hardly ever use it to listen to music, since it doesn't hold very much unless you encode with Vorbis (which I don't really use). I have found it to be exceptionally useful for two things: encoding my LP records straight to MP3's for my portable, and recording lectures. There's room for 4.5 hours of 64kbps/44.1Khz mono voice encoding, which sounds quite clear and intelligible (lower sampling rates drive me nuts). It's helped with my PhD-level courses, especially advanced statistic courses I've had to take, which I find hard to pay attention to at 8am in the morning.

Regrets? Too bad the 1GB model isn't cheaper 

PS--Getting back to MD, I am officially getting out of it for good....my last recorder will be up for grabs on eBay later this evening. Me want silver iPod mini 

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #23 –
<offtopic>

I'm still stuck in a MD (NetMD MZ-505, ancient hardware some might say ) solution due to proibitive costs of HD based players in Brazil. But I cannot complain... It's been serving me quite well for a long time.

For the future Rio Karma may be a good option...

</offtopic>

MiniDisc or MP3 player?

Reply #24 –
Quote
<offtopic>

I'm still stuck in a MD (NetMD MZ-505, ancient hardware some might say ) solution due to proibitive costs of HD based players in Brazil. But I cannot complain... It's been serving me quite well for a long time.

</offtopic>
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Hey, as long as it works for you, stick with it. Most of my friends still carry cassette tape players everywhere because they serve their needs fine, and have no use (or money) for iPods or what have you. When you don't have all that many CD's and $300+ to burn, the iPod (or other HDD-based players) can seem like a pretty ridiculous purchase.

You might want to consider a CD-based mp3 player as an intermediate step between a MD and HDD player. The CDP will hold a lot more and won't cost as much; in fact, 8cm players are pretty small and still hold more than a MD at equal quality.