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Topic: Winamp\'s Equalizer (Read 36755 times) previous topic - next topic
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Winamp\'s Equalizer

Hello.

I have read in several forums in many threads negative comments on the quality of the equalizer included with Winamp.

I was wondering if anyone could comment on the truth of this.

I use supereq but not because I can hear any sound degradation with the regular eq. It just has a parametric capability allowing isolated adjustment of the 30 to 40 hz range and more bands for separate channels.

Is there something wrong with Winamp's  eq?

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #1 –
Hmm... have you tried using DiskWriter on a file with the Winamp EQ off, then again with the same file, but with the EQ turned on and everything set to 0dB?

Perhaps you could do that with a song, then invert one of the files and add it to the other using an audio editing tool, and see if anything turns up. If Winamp's EQ is as bad as people say it is, then there should be a lot of audible stuff left over after the operation, even though all the EQ sliders were zeroed.

Then maybe you could try moving just one slider, using DiskWriter again, and performing another subtraction operation to see if using the EQ sliders is messing with the wrong frequencies.

If you find time to experiment with this, I'd really like to hear about your results!

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #2 –
Yes, It is true that Winamp's equalizer is buggy!
  It uses two different equalizer modules. A "Fast MPEG Layer-3" equalizer
  for mp3 decoding purposes and a general one for other decoder plugins.
  The fast eq is implemented internally on the mp3 decoder plugin and
  technically it can be used on any other transform coding schemes (eg AAC, ...)
  but due to its small FFT size and also low precision and probably internal
  frequency cut-off, it really sacrifices quality for the sake of low CPU usage.
  The general eq module has even smaller FFT size and a really annoying
  frequency cut-off which has made it totally useless. The difference in
  sound quality between these two modules is clearly audible if you play
  an MP3 file and its decoded wave file afterward. I really recommend you
  using Shibatch's Super Equalizer instead of Winamp's buggy eq if you don't
  care much about CPU usage

  Cheers,
  Mehrtash

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #3 –
Quote
Originally posted by mehrtash
I really recommend you using Shibatch's Super Equalizer instead of Winamp's buggy eq if you don't  care much about CPU usage


If you care, you can download SuperEqu compiled with ICL6 at RareWares.

Not a huge difference, but it's quite faster than the one at Naoki's page.

Regards;

Roberto.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #4 –
To be more precise on this subject.. the winamp EQ disables itself when ALL bars (including the preamp) are at zero

If you use any plugin that uses the default EQ, or if you disable the fast EQ in the Nullsoft MPEG decoder, you'll notice that when you move ANY bar out of this perfect 0db position, there appears a degradation of the highs. This is when the EQ gets enabled.

Appart from this, there is another annoying problem with the default EQ, the bar at 14kHz does not work right.. try checking 12Khz and 16Khz ones, and you'll notice that the 14Khz one almost is unnoticeable. (Maybe the problem is on the 16Khz one)

Finally, when using the fast EQ, it works quite well, but then, the EQ responds in a different way (the bands are not the same). This means that a preset made with the general EQ (or almost any other plugin) does not play fine with the fast EQ (or viceversa).

I am not using shibatch supereq because I find it hard to use. I am thinking on modifying it in the near future if I can (the sources are avaiable, right? I am not sure now)

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #5 –
Quote
Originally posted by [JAZ]
(the sources are avaiable, right? I am not sure now)


Yes, they are available.

I believe a very useful modification would be reducing the size of the configuration window. :-P

Regards;

Roberto.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #7 –
Yes, it is much better.

Thanks, Case.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #8 –
Many thanks to Case! I keep my desktop at 800 by 600 and this was a major pain before.

The dsp plug-in dialogue box has to stay open, but the playlist comes up and works so it is much  easier to use this now.

Too bad a curve could not be assigned to each song and autoloaded. Maybe stored on the v2 tag or something.

Alot of the old stuff out there is pretty anemic in the lower bass. Lots of bright recordings still too, unfortunately.

Anyway, thanks for the information and the modified supereq window. That's really convenient.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #9 –
Quote
Originally posted by [JAZ]
I am thinking on modifying it in the near future if I can (the sources are avaiable, right? I am not sure now)


Is it possible to auto-load a curve stored somewhere on the file? This seems like the ultimate in convenience but might be a tough thing to code.

I am not a programmer at any level so I don't know what is involved in these ideas at all.???

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #10 –
Quote
Originally posted by kennedyb4
Is it possible to auto-load a curve stored somewhere on the file? This seems like the ultimate in convenience but might be a tough thing to code.


AFAIK, DSP plugins can't read data from the file.

For that to work, you would need to make each input plugin out there feed the right info to the DSP plugin. Kinda unfeasible... :-P

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #11 –
Quote
Originally posted by kennedyb4


Is it possible to auto-load a curve stored somewhere on the file? This seems like the ultimate in convenience but might be a tough thing to code.


I would rather use a  method like winamp EQ (this means, creating a file like winamp.q2 , where it stores the autoload eq presets for songs).
This is easy except if the file increases considerably in size ( let's say.. 2000 songs and above), but then you can order the presets alphabetically, and use a dicotomy search to get faster finding.

The question is if the DSP plugin is notified of song change....

Quote
Originally posted by Case


Regarding Shibatch EQ, I modified the config yesterday, I hope you find it more pleasing:


Good, now the only missing thing is Auto-preview. That's the 2nd part that worried me.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #12 –
Quote
Originally posted by Case
Regarding Shibatch EQ, I modified the config yesterday, I hope you find it more pleasing:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~cse/superequ-0.03.zip


Does anybody know what kind of filter SuperEQU use?
Minimum phase or linear phase?
--  Frank Klemm

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #13 –
Copied from the readme: "This plugin uses 16383th order FIR filter with FFT algorithm." I hope this is an answer to your question. I don't know if that is minimum or lineair phase.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #14 –
Quote
Originally posted by Speek
Copied from the readme: "This plugin uses 16383th order FIR filter with FFT algorithm." I hope this is an answer to your question. I don't know if that is minimum or lineair phase.


With a 16383th order FIR filter you can program linear phase filters and
you can approximate very well minimum phase filters.

Make a WAV file with a zero's and a single sample != 0.

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 16384 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.

Impulse response of a good EQU should be asymmetrically
with nearly no pre-echo (< 2 ms for 5 kHz, < 20 ms for 500 Hz)
and a lot of post-echo.

Most people think linear phase filters are the best, but this is
(nearly) completely wrong. Next read of HydroAudio in 3 weeks.
--  Frank Klemm

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #15 –
Quote
Originally posted by Frank Klemm


Does anybody know what kind of filter SuperEQU use?
Minimum phase or linear phase?
x'=irdft(rdft(x)*h)

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #16 –
Quote
Originally posted by [JAZ]
Good, now the only missing thing is Auto-preview. That's the 2nd part that worried me.

I beg to disagree (I may be the only one).  I find the increments (is it 1dB?) *way* too large to make the Shibatch EQ useful.  Maybe that's the only way it can be done because of the MP3 format, but it's ridiculous.  It makes music too quiet with even a small adjustment. 

Also, even if not recommended... it would be nice to see a way to boost frequencies as well as cut, perhaps with an anti-clipping (dynamic compression) algorithm implemented.  My soundcard has a relatively low output as-is, and a boost would be really useful.

At the moment, the WinAMP default EQ is adequate in some cases (with cheap computer speakers & MP3 specifically, the effect on highs can't really be heard much, but the boost in bass sure is nice with a subwoofer).

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #17 –
Quote
Originally posted by fewtch

I beg to disagree (I may be the only one).  I find the increments (is it 1dB?) *way* too large to make the Shibatch EQ useful.  Maybe that's the only way it can be done because of the MP3 format, but it's ridiculous.  It makes music too quiet with even a small adjustment.
Are you saying that you can audibly discern EQ adjustments of ~0.1dB? The Winamp EQ has steps of ~1dB, anyway. Either way, the increments are not related to MP3; it's already been stated that Winamp DSP plugins cannot read any file data, and I'm pretty sure that includes the file type.

And if it's any consolation, you can use the SuperEQ's parametric equalizer to boost frequencies by any increment you want, for example "20Hz to 80Hz, 2.53991 dB LR"

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #18 –
What's this file data reading thing ?

SuperEQ read its own presets, that are stored as files with the .EQ extention.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #19 –
Quote
Originally posted by Pio2001
What's this file data reading thing ?

SuperEQ read its own presets, that are stored as files with the .EQ extention.
Winamp's EQ can associate a unique EQ for each song, and it will automatically load the EQ preset whenever that song is played. I guess SuperEQ can't do this.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #20 –
Yes, it can't

I mean, No it can't...

Well, it can't !

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #21 –
Quote
Originally posted by DSPguru
x'=irdft(rdft(x)*h)


(x^-1)^-1 ???
--  Frank Klemm

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #22 –
Quote
Originally posted by Pio2001
What's this file data reading thing ?


My wish for the perfect eq:D

If an eq curve for each file needing one could be stored somewhere,maybe on the v2 tag, I thought thid would be very handy and functional.

Sounds like alot of work based on what the programmers are saying though. The shibatch .eq files are pretty tiny. A few lines of text only.

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #23 –
Quote
Originally posted by SometimesWarrior
And if it's any consolation, you can use the SuperEQ's parametric equalizer to boost frequencies by any increment you want, for example "20Hz to 80Hz, 2.53991 dB LR"


Hmmm..  I'll have to try that.. 

I found the "Biphonic Curve"  an invention of one of the Binaural guys.. (there's a site,  don't have it handy)  that is a "more correct" EQ for wearing headphones.  According to them,  having the transducers near your ears,  creates peaks and valleys that you can EQ out for more "natural" sound.

I think they might be on to something.  But, it's tough to do with such "low resolution" tools like these slider bar based things.  I was using Cool Edit and "drawing" in the filter curve,  but no real time processing there..

If I'm understanding it right,  I could define a curve,  instead of a limited number of discrete channels?

Winamp\'s Equalizer

Reply #24 –
JonPike, check your PM