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Topic: Apple Lossless analysis? (Read 35391 times) previous topic - next topic
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Apple Lossless analysis?

Reply #50
Dr. Zick:

I don't think any "rational" person would disagree with your argument for less "fluff" in music sales.  However, there's one major problem from the music industries perspective that will have them dying before they consider anything like singles sales.

First the vast majority albums only have one or two good songs, and this has only become more true in the rapid paced modern music industry where pop bands pump out crap at a rapid clip.  Everyone knows this, including the industry executives.

Second, the industry uses the "size" of albums as an argument for their enormous cost.  Back when CDs were introduced they were priced with a premium.  The industry argued this was the cost of teh materials and teh production process, and that prices would eventually return to something more reasonable (like tapes) as production technology matured and became more efficient.  As we know now prices have only INCREASED (both real and inflationary) since the 80s.  This would mean that any decrease in album "size" or "quantity" would HAVE to lead to a direct change in product pricing.

Third, as the industry's market (read everyone age 5 - 40) becomes more technologically adept and aware, they are and will increasingly turn to the internet and interactive space for raw, digital music sales.  So we can assume the total share of digital sales will only increase, and that the number of people buying "singles" at teh reduced price over actual albums will skyrocket (if it is available).

If you take these three things together the result is rather clear from the industry's perspective.  The creation of services selling music singles or 2-3 song "minis" will directly undermine full priced album sales.  Unless the quantity of singles or minis sold increases SUBSTANTIALLY the music industry faces an immediate loss of about 50% of its revenue.  This is because:

1. There is no way the industry can float the same $15 price for a 2 song CD they can for a 12 song album (given current public sentiment)

2. There is no way the industry can expect to sell full albums with fluff when consumers can purchase what they want in a "packaged" format (one song digital sales aren't well packaged, hence their lower attractiveness)

The music companies are two short-sighted and stupid to see beyond the immediate danger of such a proposition, and so they follo wthe knee-jerk reaction that they need to destroy anyone who would undermine the album format and make sure that file sharers who provide an easy way to listen to new stuff you like OUTSIDE the album format are crushed.

Of course we all know the answer.  The music industry has been living on borrowed time since the 80s, perpetrating what is essentially massive organized price fixing and trampling over the rights of artists and music listeners to line the pockets of a few undeserving music executives.  They need to understand that they have ZERO right to the money they've been making (whyere the hell is the JD?!?), and the market will no longer support their ridiculous connivings.

Everything went downhill when music publishing became a business.

-rt

Apple Lossless analysis?

Reply #51
Quote
Of course we all know the answer.  The music industry has been living on borrowed time since the 80s, perpetrating what is essentially massive organized price fixing and trampling over the rights of artists and music listeners to line the pockets of a few undeserving music executives.  They need to understand that they have ZERO right to the money they've been making (whyere the hell is the JD?!?), and the market will no longer support their ridiculous connivings.

You know, it's funny that I didn't hear anybody complaining about this before Napster became popular...

My opinion on this: a lot of people are jumping on the "evil record companies"-bandwagon to try to justify their piracy. 

And I think many of those people have no idea about the economics of selling music...
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.

Apple Lossless analysis?

Reply #52
I complained about it before Napster.  I complained about it when I boughtr my first CD for like $18.99.  I also remember multiple complaints from multiple folks as soon as CDs appeared with high prices.  If I remember correctly congress has convened hearings on the subject multiple times.

The only reason you hear more about it now is that the actions of the record companies are beginning to be felt and noticed by a larger percentage of the population.  When that happens mainstream media gives it more coverage and the issues begin to pick up momentum.

Hell, bands have been complaining about the labels ripping them off since the 70s.

-rt

Apple Lossless analysis?

Reply #53
Quote
Hell, bands have been complaining about the labels ripping them off since the 70s.

I hope you meant the 1870s, because it's been going on at least that long.
------- Rick -------
--------------------

Apple Lossless analysis?

Reply #54
Touche!

I actually meant the 1470s, but I'm having a hard time pulling together the evidence to back it up.  Seems most of my documentation disappeared in a mysterious monastery fire during the in the early 1800s.

All I could find before then was a torn parchment with the line "Beware the RIAA" scrawled in blood.

-rt

Apple Lossless analysis?

Reply #55
I apologize that I'm not adding anything useful to the conversation, but I'd like to say that this is one of the friendliest message forums I have ever been to.

For as strongly opininiated as anything involving open source/closed source and then on top of it talking about music, while it is clear that everyone here has strong opinions, they are very respectful of others and there is a lot of back and forth.

What made me take the time to write this is that people were actually polite about making the corrections about the mixup between copyright and patents, every other message forum I know of people get flamed like hell for that stuff.

Anyway...this site has an incredible wealth of information and knowledgable users. It's great!!

I guess this place is all about people's opinions, so if anyone cares, I like the idea of Apple's Lossless format because I have a huge commitment to iTunes, ratings, smart playlists, my iPod, etc. And even if it's not 100% the best thing out there, they've done a wonderful job just making it work, as they always do so I am happy.

Another reason that iTunes kicks ass is that if you reencode a CD (meaning putting the CD in to rip in a new format, NOT transcoding), it asks if you want to replace the versions you already have. It's AWESOME because then the songs remain in all the playlists and everywhere you've already put them. it's great !

 

Apple Lossless analysis?

Reply #56
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My opinion on this: a lot of people are jumping on the "evil record companies"-bandwagon to try to justify their piracy.


Read this article and then defend the business and royalty practices of the record companies.

Quote
-Florence Ballard from The Supremes was on welfare when she died.

-Collective Soul earned almost no money from "Shine," one of the biggest alternative rock hits of the '90s, when Atlantic Records paid almost all of their royalties to an outside production company.

-Country music legend Merle Haggard, with 37 top-10 country singles (including 23 #1 hits), never received a record royalty check until he released an album on the indie punk-rock label Epitaph.


Quote
With the explosion of the Internet and the ease of downloading music onto your computer, a whole new royalty arena has opened up in recent years. Record companies usually treat downloads as "new media/technology," which means they can reduce the royalty by 20% to 50%. This means that rather than paying artists a 10% royalty on recording sales, they can pay them a 5% to 8% rate when their song is downloaded from the Internet. In the case of downloaded music, although there is no packaging expense, many record company contracts still state that the 25% packaging fee will be deducted.


Quote
And I think many of those people have no idea about the economics of selling music...


Most people do not know how the business works.
Do you?

Quote
States settle CD price-fixing case
By David Lieberman, USA TODAY
NEW YORK — The five largest music companies and three of the USA's largest music retailers agreed Monday to pay $67.4 million and distribute $75.7 million in CDs to public and non-profit groups to settle a lawsuit led by New York and Florida over alleged price-fixing in the late 1990s.

Attorneys general in the two states, who were joined in the lawsuit by 39 other states, said that the industry kept consumer CD prices artificially high between 1995 and 2000 with a practice known as "minimum-advertised pricing" (MAP).

The settlement will go to all 50 states, based on population. Consumers may be able to seek compensation.

Under MAP, the record companies subsidized ads by retailers in return for agreement by the stores to sell CDs at or above a certain price.

"This is a landmark settlement to address years of illegal price-fixing," New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer said in a statement. "Our agreement will provide consumers with substantial refunds and result in the distribution of a wide variety of recordings for use in our schools and communities."

The companies, including Universal Music, Sony Music, Warner Music, Bertelsmann's BMG Music and EMI Group, plus retailers Musicland Stores, Trans World Entertainment and Tower Records, admitted no wrongdoing.

The companies have not practiced the pricing agreement since 2000. At that time, they agreed in settling a complaint by the Federal Trade Commission that they would refrain from MAP pricing for seven years.

Former FTC chairman Robert Pitofsky said at the time that consumers had been overcharged by $480 million since 1997 and that CD prices would soon drop by as much as $5 a CD as a result.


Price fixing in the industry is not something that is in doubt IMO. So while certainly anti-record company zealotry is very common, it appears to be better justified by the facts than pro-record company zealotry (not that either extreme really makes a lot of sense).

The large production and distribution houses and their defenders cannot maintain that it makes sense to cut artist royalties on downloaded music tracks yet keep the cut they make on "packaging" constant, when there is no packaging involved whatsoever.

BMG/Sony/EMI/Universal/Warner simply have exhausted any good reason for being given the benefit of the doubt. Manufacturing costs per CD have dropped precipitously since the advent of the Compact Disc, but CD prices have not followed suit. This is in part because "packaging costs" have stayed at essentially the same rate despite immense decreases in absolute costs since the early 1980's (when I first started buying CDs).

Likewise older recordings that pay little or no royalties to artists (that may even be dead), and are not advertised or promoted anywhere, mysteriously cost exactly the same amount of money as heavily promoted albums that cost an immense amount of money to record, distribute, package and produce.

edited for spelling and clarification

This is quite off-topic I know, my apologies