Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: The newer CD's without CDA Tracks (Read 5853 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

I did a search but failed to find the info.  YES it is probably here somewhere, so I aplogize for having missed it - but just point me there if you could.

The question is - how is it that the newer CD's not only have no tracks showing up in Explorer view . . . but they also only have a few small files.  The CD should hold 650 MB but it shows only 9 MB approx (the new Liz Phair CD).  I was expecting at least one large data file that "contained" the tracks. 

Older CD players can't handle these - but WMplayer and Real Player have no problem.  The player that could not open the CD, oddly, was the pne that came with it - Interactual !!

Is the data contained in some type of structure that is not a file??  Or do they somehow make the files invisible to Windows?  Any info that explains this in detail?  TIA

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #1 –
Copy Protected CD... the CD reader is reading the other data track. The audio tracks are hidden from Explorer. You will most probably hear the audio tracks on a stand alone player. WMP will play the 9MB of POS files no troubles at all... it will just sound like POS!
-=MusePack... Living Audio Compression=-

Honda - The Power of Dreams

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #2 –
It is possible that the CD uses some sort of copy protection based on an illegal TOC. Anyway, there isn't something like CDA files on a CD. The CDA files you see with Windows are generated by a device driver and are actually shortcuts to the audio tracks.

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #3 –
Quote
I did a search but failed to find the info.  YES it is probably here somewhere, so I aplogize for having missed it - but just point me there if you could.

The question is - how is it that the newer CD's not only have no tracks showing up in Explorer view . . . but they also only have a few small files.  The CD should hold 650 MB but it shows only 9 MB approx (the new Liz Phair CD).  I was expecting at least one large data file that "contained" the tracks.

First of all, thank you for requesting info in a nice way, unlike some people lately 

In addition to the other answers, remember to try more than one program to rip with. For some bizarre, my new Shuttle can't see any tracks at all on copy protected CDs with EAC, but Media Player et all all see them fine. So try more than one program and make sure you download an aspi driver from the adaptec site.

seany

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #4 –
You could use one of the numerous CD protection identification tools that are available freely on the net to find out what protection the cd uses: ClonyXXL is one such good tool that comes to mind.

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #5 –
Interesting...another "transparently copy-protected CD".  And since there are no CDA files, I'm using the term "CD" loosely.  Look closely at the disc and the case, inside and out.  No Compact Disc Digital Audio logos anywhere to be found...I never noticed that before.

I just bought Liz Phair's new self-titled album myself, but at first I didn't bring it up in Explorer.  I started EAC, it saw the tracks just fine, and securely ripped at ~7x as per usual.  I never suspected a thing.  Just now, Explorer said there is 471 MB used on the disc, but a search for *.CDA files yields a big goose egg.

They're going to have to get more effective copy-protection if they want to have the desired effect, I think.  First goal is to make the copy-protection noticeable.      Maybe if they stamped in large letters on the front of the case: [span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%']This is a copy-protected disc...there is no Compact Disc Digital Audio on it[/span]  Otherwise, people like me will never notice the difference.  I did get the video startup when I inserted the disc, but that didn't make me suspect anything.  I have several discs with actual CDA files *and* those "enhanced features" as well.

EAC has never even slowed down on any of the ~400 discs in my collection, all of which I just encoded (again) recently.  And I've never had to "Manually Detect TOC" either.  I was beginning to think I was lucky and ended up with not a single copy-protected disc, even though I have many discs released in the past three years (when copy-protection became more rampant).

Geez...they'd NEVER be able to charge me with circumventing copy-protection.  I'd have to at least suspect it's presence, first of all, before I could even begin to attempt "circumvention".

Stupid RIAA.  Forward The Revolution

Edit: P.S. - Thank you again to Andre Wiethoff for creating a solid, reliable, seamless software application.  If all software in the world worked as well as EAC, I'd be out of a career (a big part of which is making software work for people).

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #6 –
I envy you ScorLibran.  I've only bought one Copy Protected Disc and will never again.  Neither of my CD drives will rip the disc, let alone play the low bitrate encodes they've put on it.  Even if it did, the copy protection has caused a number of pops to appear in the tracks.  I'm going to order that CD now from the US where it doesn't have copy protection.

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #7 –
Quote
a search for *.CDA files yields a big goose egg.



I not positive, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that there is an actual *.CDA extension.  I read somewhere, the old r3mix forum I think it was, that CDA is simply an acronym that Miscosoft came up with to identify CD audio files.  So, unlike .mp3, .wav, .wma, etc., .cda is not a legitimate extension.

Later.
"Did you just say he contacts you through a bird? Did I just hear you say that?" Sonny Valerio (Cliff Gorman). Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai.

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #8 –
Quote
Quote
a search for *.CDA files yields a big goose egg.



I not positive, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that there is an actual *.CDA extension.  I read somewhere, the old r3mix forum I think it was, that CDA is simply an acronym that Miscosoft came up with to identify CD audio files.  So, unlike .mp3, .wav, .wma, etc., .cda is not a legitimate extension.

Later.

Here is a screenshot of an Explorer listing of Green Day's Nimrod.  Perhaps Windows Explorer just sticks the CDA extension on the end of each file as a description of what it is, but a properties view of each file says the same name ("Track01.cda", etc.)



Here is a screenshot of the contents of Liz Phair's "CD" for comparison...

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #9 –
Haw... that last picture ScorLibran is just the second session showing up in explorer. This means if you can see it audio tracks in EAC and not in explorer, just means Windows is just loading the last session on the CD which is the data track which includes any bonus material that the CD may include such as wallpaper etc.. Normally CP'ed CDs getting the audio tracks to load up in EAC is one of the hardest steps cause the damn CD Reader gets all confused with the illegal TOCs etc... Your Liz Phair CD is unprotected and has an extra data session on it...

Regards

AgentMil
-=MusePack... Living Audio Compression=-

Honda - The Power of Dreams

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #10 –
The .cda extension and files are just representations of whats on the disc.  I'm not positive but a CD just contains a filesystem (iso???? or whatever), with a table of contents that points to sections of data (the songs). So explorer just reads the TOC and then generates nicely named and numbered files that you can click on and play, that is not what is actually there.
When you see other files there, I think it is a CDExtra CD, which is an audio CD filesystem, and after that a completely different filesystem (iso9660?).

But don't take my word for any of this go look it up!

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #11 –
Quote
Perhaps Windows Explorer just sticks the CDA extension on the end of each file as a description of what it is


Yes, I'm not entirely positive, but I do believe that is what it is.  It's Microsoft's way of dealing with CD audio.

Later.
"Did you just say he contacts you through a bird? Did I just hear you say that?" Sonny Valerio (Cliff Gorman). Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai.

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #12 –
Quote
The .cda extension and files are just representations of whats on the disc.  I'm not positive but a CD just contains a filesystem (iso???? or whatever), with a table of contents that points to sections of data (the songs). So explorer just reads the TOC and then generates nicely named and numbered files that you can click on and play, that is not what is actually there.
When you see other files there, I think it is a CDExtra CD, which is an audio CD filesystem, and after that a completely different filesystem (iso9660?).

But don't take my word for any of this go look it up!

But when I go to a DOS (emulation) window and path to my F: drive, I still see the same *.cda files, extensions and all.  Or is it because my "DOS" window is also subject to any session that is Windows XP-compatible?  Anyway, with the Liz Phair CD, it's a lie.  The header bar says Files Currently on the CD with the root of F: highlighted.

Arrrrgggh!  M$ pisses me off enough as it is, without them not really showing me what's on a disc.  I'm not very "UNIX-literate", hence I feel like M$ has me by the b*lls by providing the only OS that's easy to use and also gets my work done.  Damn them!  (Not being sarcastic, for once.)

Maybe it's time to install Linux???  Big question:  Can PhatNoise, Winamp, PVCS (VM and Windows-only Tracker), DVD playback, and every other thing I do work with it?  I know there are office apps for it, and I'm sure there's a PVCS compile for it (except for Tracker).  Also, are there drivers for my ATI Mobility Radeon (video) card, Echo Indigo (audio) card, and Windows emulators like a "reverse Exceed Hummingbird" for things not ported to Linux?  Anyway, if it can compatibly support all my most critical aspects of computing, I'll take it!  Oh well...sorry to get OT...

Another seemingly evil aspect of M$.  Forward The Revolution  (used to just be against the RIAA stealing music from us...now it also covers M$ helping them and otherwise "lying to us" via marketing, promises of security, misleading Explorer disc contents, etc.)

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #13 –
Any enhanced CD will do the same (ie no .cda files), they are not copy protected.
 

The newer CD's without CDA Tracks

Reply #14 –
And the answer is . . .

The Liz Phair CD is CD Extra also called Enhanced CD and Mixed-Media CD.  "CD Extra", which is also called Enhanced CD (ECD) and  Mixed-Media CD.  The CD's use multisession - with one data and one audio session.  The first session contains the audio tracks and the second session contains the data (see the two sessions below).  The data will be images, video, and other freebies such as a DVD player utility for your PC.




The CD Extra format is documented in detail in the "Blue Book".

CD Extra was originally promoted by Philips and Sony in the mid-90's and backed by major computer suppliers including Microsoft and Apple. It provides a way of adding CD-ROM and computer data to a music CD without stopping the CD working as a normal audio CD in an ordinary HiFi CD Player. It also allows information about the music, such as the names of the performer and composer, track titles and even an image of the disc's jacket to be stored on the CD. This additional information can be displayed by a new generation of HiFi and home entertainment products.


CD Extra in Home and Car Stereos - these devices do mot support multi-session CD's and therefore by default, see only the first session - which is the audio tracks.

CD Extra on your PC - all modern PC's and CD drives support multisession CD's as do modern CD player utilities such as Windows Media Player and Real Player.  So you can play CD Extra on your computer. 
However !!!  Windows Explorer and most other file-based utilities on your PC are incapable of viewing multisession CD's - and will see only the last recorded session (the last track) - which for CD Extra, is the data session.
How to see a list of CD Extra's Audio Tracks (on the first Session)

As we discussed, Windows Explorer normally only shows the last track of a multisession CD.  To see the 1st session in Explorer with Win95-98, use Nero Multi Mounter as follows.  For Win2000-XP, multi-mounter does not work but ISObuster does !!!

Win98

Use Multi Mounter, which is automatically installed with Nero, which allows you to access ANY of the tracks on a CD directly from your Windows desktop.

Put the CD you want to read in your CD/DVD-ROM drive or in your recorder.
Select the corresponding drive in Windows Explorer.
Choose Properties from the File menu, or right-click on the drive icon and choose Properties from the pop-up menu.
A dialog box with several tabs appears. Choose the Volumes tab. You will see a list of all the tracks on the CD. As Windows automatically accesses the last track on a CD, this track is marked with a tick.
Select the track you want, and confirm your selection by clicking on OK.
From now on, Windows will display the track you have selected under the drive icon of the CD drive or recorder.
Win2000-XP

Open ISO-Buster (free download - search the web - it's easy to find), and the two sessions will appear !!