Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion (Read 86422 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #150 –
Quote
Quote
hm lpcm is used for dvd movie sound?

I don't know. But I would prefer LPCM neverthless

Of course, if it's not available, DTS would be the way to go. AC3 isn't a good idea considering it's already quite compressed.

obviously, AC3 is lossy, but DTS is as well. however, the problems in theatrical AC3 is not present in DVD AC-3 because higher bitrates can and usually are used, as far as the stuff i've encountered (i wish i could borrow/rent Kings of Comedy to triple check that). well, the Garbage music video, TWINE @ 96kbps being an sadly grieved exception to that. if high enough bitrates are used in AC3, it should at least be "on par" with DTS (which i thought i read was not the most efficient codec).

i guess what i'm saying is, is that AC3 can be just as good of a contender as DTS, since they're both lossy.


oh, and i wouldn't suggest a straight music video DVD for LPCM, unless they mastered the sound specifically for the DVD. they seem to use 2nd generation audio from an analog-seeming transfer or something as most don't even compare to the CD mix.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #151 –
Quote
How about true killer sample, what Guruboolez uploaded once IIRC. biniou.flac

that sounds like a good sample, at least based on my experience that killer samples seem to have synthy or distortion related attributes to choke the codec.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #152 –
I really like my caffeinebattlecry sample and it would probably cause problems with some of the encoders (haven't tested yet):
caffeinebattlecry.sample20sec.flac
caffeinebattlecry.sample5sec.flac

It did really well as a sample in my private (F)AAC tests, but I guess people could complain about the test becoming too muck rock and not enough classical stuff. I will look for a good live sample later today.
"To understand me, you'll have to swallow a world." Or maybe your words.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #153 –
Quote
Quote
How about true killer sample, what Guruboolez uploaded once IIRC. biniou.flac

that sounds like a good sample, at least based on my experience that killer samples seem to have synthy or distortion related attributes to choke the codec.

Hrm... I can already hear people complaining that sample gives them headaches

Also, I don't think it represents any specific style well. I can't even identify what instrument is playing that!

Quote
I really like my caffeinebattlecry sample and it would probably cause problems with some of the encoders (haven't tested yet)


Do you think that sample would be good to replace the other sample you submited? (mybloodrusts). I think it's kinda too agressive and "messy" (for lack of a better word), I already got comments from several people complaining they don't know where to focus to try to detect artifacts on such kinds of samples (gone's final part is very difficult in that aspect too)

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #154 –
Identifying artifacts in mybloodrusts is really easy in my oppinion (and according to the ratings from the prior tests most people seem to think similiar), but I wouldn't have a problem with replacing it with caffeinebattlecry, which might represent punkrock/emocore/hardcore music more accurately, since it's less noisy and features more "classical" artifact spots (hard attacks etc.).

I'd really like to have them both featured, but I see that you can't do that. There are some interesting spots on albums I bought recently, which I haven't looked into any further yet, but I promise there'll be a shitload of new heavy samples for the next test set ready.
"To understand me, you'll have to swallow a world." Or maybe your words.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #155 –
http://sjeng.org/ftp/work/Peccatum.flac

Old sample from Dibrom. IMHO very useful for codec testing. (Posted in other thread)

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #156 –
In case it's not too late yet:

I've finally found a good/hard to encode live sample. It's from
James Brown - Greatest Hits - Body Heat (live)

Uploaded here.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #157 –
I don't think that biniou.wav is a killer sample. Nero AAC have problems with it in the past - but other encoders sound find, close to transparency.
Brass instruments in Mahler3 are more terrific, for all encoder at this bitrate
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #158 –
still interest in a movie sample (speech will low volume background music)?

if yes, how should i treat the multichannel dts source? it should be possible to downsample with azid to stereo...
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #159 –
Quote
http://sjeng.org/ftp/work/Peccatum.flac

Old sample from Dibrom. IMHO very useful for codec testing. (Posted in other thread)

Indeed, very interesting. Do you think it can be used to replace gone maybe?

@tigre: Thank-you very much. I'll replace Scars with it, since that seems to be another sample listeners don't like much. Also, I didn't have any funk/soul sample

@bond: I probably can accept, but you will need to hurry. I'll start encoding the samples very soon. Also, tell what sample should be replaced :B

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #160 –
Quote
@bond: I probably can accept, but you will need to hurry. I'll start encoding the samples very soon. Also, tell what sample should be replaced :B

thanks to gam3r and fr4nz i now have 2 sources:

1) speech only
2) speech + some pumping sound (from drums?) in the background

which of the two is prefered?
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #161 –
Quote
1) speech only
2) speech + some pumping sound in the background

Speech can usually be compressed down to 16kbps while keeping a quite good quality (look at Speex, ACELP, etc.), so I think the version with pumping will be better. I'll test it to see if it is too obviously easy to encode, and I'm afraid it might be.

Downmixing with DPL would do, no problem.

And resampling to 44.1kHz would also be very important

Also, again: What sample will be replaced?

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #162 –
ok here it is: http://8ung.at/bond/NinjaScroll.flac

i created it that way:
1) decoding the source .dts (from the anime Ninja Scroll, thanks gam3r!  ) with the Intervideo Audio dshow decoder (which is the only stable DTS decoder i know) to .wav (default settings: 2 speaker mode - dolby surround compatible, vocal options: both)
2) cutting the .wav in cooledit
3) saving as .fla with case's flac plugin (default setting: compression level 5)
4) rename to .flac (i assume thats correct)

i hope its interesting

Quote
Also, again: What sample will be replaced?

hm also again, no clue as i dont really know the samples which will be used atm
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #163 –
Quote
ok here it is: http://8ung.at/bond/NinjaScroll.flac

Server down?

I can't get it from here nor from the 3 SSH servers I have access to.

Can you please put it at the upload thread?
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/18632

Quote
hm also again, no clue as i dont really know the samples which will be used atm


http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ndpost&p=185286

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #164 –
Downloaded, k-tnx

Some problems I find:

-The volume is too low
-I couldn't find any part of it that would stress codecs. My guess it that most of them would reach transparency there.

Opinions from others?

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #165 –
Quote
-The volume is too low

well the volume is always that low on movie dvds (normally someone would gain the whole thing, but i avoided that of course to not change the source)

Quote
-I couldn't find any part of it that would stress codecs. My guess it that most of them would reach transparency there.

hm if you think so 
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #166 –
Last minute change: Fatboy will be replaced with Roel's velvet.wav. Compaact behaved too badly on Fatboy (270kbps!). And velvet is pretty evil neverthless.

So, the final frozen list will be:

BigYellow
bodyheat
DaFunk
gone
Hongroise
Mahler
mybloodrusts
NewYorkCity
OrdinaryWorld
Quizas
velvet
Waiting

Regards;

Roberto.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #167 –
Quote
Last minute change: Fatboy will be replaced with Roel's velvet.wav.

Ugh!  I can't do ABXing with velvet, one constant beat with melody tends to get to me pretty fast, one constant beat on its own . . . . my ears just can't take that. 
gentoo ~amd64 + layman | ncmpcpp/mpd | wavpack + vorbis + lame

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #168 –
hello.

I'd like to ask a favour from someone that understands well the unix shell.

This is one of the .bat files I'll use for this listening test:

Code: [Select]
@echo off

rem Reference decoding
flac -d -o ..\Sample01\BigYellow.wav ..\Sample01\BigYellow.flac

rem Samples decoding
faad -o ..\Sample01\BigYellow_1.wav ..\Sample01\BigYellow_1.mp4
faad -o ..\Sample01\BigYellow_2.wav ..\Sample01\BigYellow_2.mp4
faad -o ..\Sample01\BigYellow_3.wav ..\Sample01\BigYellow_3.mp4
faad -o ..\Sample01\BigYellow_4.wav ..\Sample01\BigYellow_4.mp4
faad -o ..\Sample01\BigYellow_5.wav ..\Sample01\BigYellow_5.mp4

rem Cleanup
del ..\Sample01\BigYellow.flac
del ..\Sample01\BigYellow_1.mp4
del ..\Sample01\BigYellow_2.mp4
del ..\Sample01\BigYellow_3.mp4
del ..\Sample01\BigYellow_4.mp4
del ..\Sample01\BigYellow_5.mp4


Can someone please provile a .sh script that would perform the same?

I will expect the test participants to have FLAC an FAAD somewhere in the path. There's no way I can provide binaries for Linux, Solaris, MacOS, BSD... specially considering all the dependency issues.

The echo off isn't needed.

Thank-you for your help.

Regards;

Roberto.


Also, so that critics can start complaining right away that Nero bitrates are too high:
http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/Bitrates.txt

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #169 –
Omg, they're too high! I understand that bitrates tend to rise for problem samples and for overall music they stay closer to their target (as I once argued), but I doubt this is the case here....I'll encode a few CDs to check.
Happiness - The agreeable sensation of contemplating the misery of others.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #170 –
Code: [Select]
Nero:  
Hongroise    142
Mahler  142

They really made a special Guru-optimized build, after his classical test results. 

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #171 –
Quote
Quote
http://sjeng.org/ftp/work/Peccatum.flac

Old sample from Dibrom. IMHO very useful for codec testing. (Posted in other thread)

Indeed, very interesting. Do you think it can be used to replace gone maybe?

I'd use it to replace whatever sample had the least discriminating power/highest scores and that's still in. Qua genre it has a little of a lot, if you know what I mean.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #172 –
Quote
Omg, they're too high! I understand that bitrates tend to rise for problem samples and for overall music they stay closer to their target (as I once argued), but I doubt this is the case here....I'll encode a few CDs to check.

I tested 272 samples which are a mixture of completely different music styles. I have 132.5kbps average for Nero, which is actually lower than for Compaact1.2b2 VBR5 which was 1 kbps higher average.
It depends on the music style pretty much.
Juha Laaksonheimo

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #173 –
JohnV:

Compaact 1.2 beta 3 has been out for almost a week I believe. Alexander informed me of it. Perhaps he forgot to update his beta thread with that link. I think it has various optimizations, so you might want to get a copy instead of using beta 2 for testing.

AAC @ 128kbps listening test discussion

Reply #174 –
Quote
Compaact 1.2 beta 3 has been out for almost a week I believe. Alexander informed me of it. Perhpas he forgot to updatre his beta thread with that link. I think it has various optimizations, so you might want to get a copy instead of using beta 2 for testing.

Do you really think he didn't send me an e-mail already about beta 3?

Edit: Erm? That post is directed at JohnV?


So, anyone willing to take a look at my batch script to convert it to bash-friendly?