High Bitrate Tests

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High Bitrate Tests

2004-02-06 02:00:38

The short sample in question is from "V-Tracks - Subway 26".

SK1 (a former member) and I detected a sample from a trance track that has
some pre-echo problems with LAME 3.90.3, even at higher settings like
--alt-preset insane.

I sat down and tested the sample, and indeed, 9/9, alhough I needed more than
an hour to finish this test. We decided to see if it's a codec-related problem
and prepared samples with MPC --insane, Vorbis GT3b2 -q 8, Nero AAC 6.3.0.3
at the VBR settings of Extreme and Audiophile, and finally, OptimFROG DualStream.

I concentrated on position 00:00.4 - 00:00.8. Throughout the sample, there are
repeating hi-hats on the left channel. They are smeared by the pre-echo effect.

In order to rule out any possible distortion/aliasing problems because of the
sound cards resampling from 44.1 KHz to 48 KHz, we used Naoki Shibata's SSRC
1.29 with these settings:

SSRC.exe --twopass --dither 0 --rate 48000 V-Tracks.wav V-Tracks-48.wav

OK, here we go:

I had mixed luck with Nero Extreme. I could not concentrate enough to get 5 in
a row, but I managed 4/4 about 5 times during 5 minutes. Unfortunately
WinABX froze, and this log can only shows my miserable attempts to
succeed again after running it for the second time. It's 4 AM and I will
probably quit now:

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 00:51:41

A file: E:\V-Tracks-48.wav
B file: D:\V-Tracks-48-nero_extreme.wav

00:59:25 1/1 p=50.0%
00:59:45 2/2 p=25.0%
01:00:31 2/3 p=50.0%
01:00:50 2/4 p=68.8%
01:00:52 reset

01:01:10 1/1 p=50.0%
01:01:51 2/2 p=25.0%
01:05:28 2/3 p=50.0%
01:05:30 reset

01:05:39 1/1 p=50.0%
01:06:35 1/2 p=75.0%
01:06:37 reset

01:06:45 1/1 p=50.0%
01:06:53 2/2 p=25.0%
01:07:02 3/3 p=12.5%
01:07:47 3/4 p=31.2%
01:09:23 4/5 p=18.8%
01:10:31 4/6 p=34.4%
01:10:34 reset

01:10:54 1/1 p=50.0%
01:11:03 2/2 p=25.0%
01:11:12 2/3 p=50.0%
01:11:15 reset

01:11:24 1/1 p=50.0%
01:11:37 1/2 p=75.0%
01:11:38 reset

01:11:55 1/1 p=50.0%
01:13:18 1/2 p=75.0%
01:13:20 reset

01:13:30 1/1 p=50.0%
01:14:09 1/2 p=75.0%
01:14:13 reset

01:17:41 1/1 p=50.0%
01:20:06 1/2 p=75.0%
----------------------------------------

I can always detect the "swoosh" sound on my first ABX attempt, but I get tired after.

SK1 had much more luck. He uses a better sound card, an Audigy, as opposed to my SB128
with its weak volume. His headphones are more suited for such a test (Sennheiser HD580,
while I still have the open HD495S). Lucky him.

Here are the logs from his various attempts:

LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset insane (easy):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/05/2004 21:25:17

A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav
B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-lame_api.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2
21:25:39 1/1 p=50.0%
21:25:57 2/2 p=25.0%
21:26:20 3/3 p=12.5%
21:26:40 4/4 p=6.2%
21:27:21 5/5 p=3.1%
21:27:29 6/6 p=1.6%
21:27:51 7/7 p=0.8%
21:28:09 8/8 p=0.4%
21:28:45 9/9 p=0.2%
21:28:54 10/10 p< 0.1%
21:29:07 11/11 p< 0.1%
21:29:22 12/12 p< 0.1%
21:29:24 test finished
------------------------

Nero 6.3.0.3, Extreme, VBR. Both Nero samples were kindly prepared for us by menno. (very easy):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 00:51:07

A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav
B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-nero_extreme.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2
00:52:04 1/1 p=50.0%
00:52:12 2/2 p=25.0%
00:52:24 3/3 p=12.5%
00:52:37 4/4 p=6.2%
00:52:46 5/5 p=3.1%
00:52:55 6/6 p=1.6%
00:53:11 7/7 p=0.8%
00:53:24 8/8 p=0.4%
00:53:32 9/9 p=0.2%
00:53:39 10/10 p< 0.1%
00:53:44 11/11 p< 0.1%
00:53:50 12/12 p< 0.1%
00:54:03 test finished
------------------------

Nero 6.3.0.3, Audiophile, VBR (very hard):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 01:26:45

A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav
B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-nero_audiophile.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2
01:27:23 1/1 p=50.0%
01:27:30 2/2 p=25.0%
01:27:59 3/3 p=12.5%
01:28:09 4/4 p=6.2%
01:28:20 5/5 p=3.1%
01:29:49 6/6 p=1.6%
01:31:55 7/7 p=0.8%
01:32:08 test finished
-----------------------

Oggenc GT3b2, Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (GTune 3, beta 2), -q 8 (hard):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 01:45:08

A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav
B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-vorbis_q8.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2
01:45:30 1/1 p=50.0%
01:45:44 2/2 p=25.0%
01:46:25 3/3 p=12.5%
01:46:36 4/4 p=6.2%
01:47:04 5/5 p=3.1%
01:47:55 6/6 p=1.6%
01:48:29 7/7 p=0.8%
01:48:36 test finished
-----------------------

DualStream --mode extra --quality 0, file bitrate = 276.8 kbps (failure to ABX):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 02:18:39

A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav
B file: E:\test\v-tracks-48-ofs_extra_quality0.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2
02:18:57 1/1 p=50.0%
02:19:20 2/2 p=25.0%
02:19:39 2/3 p=50.0%
02:19:48 2/4 p=68.8%
02:20:21 3/5 p=50.0%
02:20:34 4/6 p=34.4%
02:20:42 4/7 p=50.0%
02:20:47 test finished
-----------------------

MPC - mppenc 1.15r --quality 7 (failure to ABX):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 02:23:34

A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav
B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-mpc_insane.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2
02:24:18 0/1 p=100.0%
02:24:54 1/2 p=75.0%
02:25:20 2/3 p=50.0%
02:25:58 3/4 p=31.2%
02:26:21 3/5 p=50.0%
02:27:03 4/6 p=34.4%
02:27:24 4/7 p=50.0%
02:28:03 5/8 p=36.3%
02:28:22 6/9 p=25.4%
02:28:52 6/10 p=37.7%
02:29:36 6/11 p=50.0%
02:29:45 test finished
------------------------

We would like to hear about your experiences too. With AAC, mostly, since it's
relevant to this forum. I am adding a link to the original sample, APE, 48 KHz
(no need to SSRC) through a .torrent file.

===========================================

V-Tracks - Subway 26 - Monkey's Audio, extra high, 48 KHz

High Bitrate Tests

Reply #1 – 2004-02-06 11:01:19

I can ABX mpc standard and xtreme on this relatively easy (on both 44.1 and 48 versions). No luck with insane. Maybe I will try that another time.

High Bitrate Tests

Reply #2 – 2004-02-06 19:47:59

Here's yet another short sample and more results:

The sample is taken from:
DJ Jan - X-Santo (Angel mix) - VA album Party Time 4 - 1997
The problem: pre-echo that is even more pronounced and easier to hear,
since the drums are now isolated

LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset insane (easy):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 18:45:36

A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav
B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-lame_api.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7
18:46:16 1/1 p=50.0%
18:46:25 2/2 p=25.0%
18:46:33 3/3 p=12.5%
18:46:43 4/4 p=6.2%
18:46:54 5/5 p=3.1%
18:47:02 6/6 p=1.6%
18:47:24 7/7 p=0.8%
18:47:30 8/8 p=0.4%
18:47:39 9/9 p=0.2%
18:48:08 10/10 p< 0.1%
18:48:21 11/11 p< 0.1%
18:48:46 12/12 p< 0.1%
18:48:49 test finished
-----------------------

Oggenc GT3b2, Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (GTune 3, beta 2), -q 8 (hard):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 18:51:11

A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav
B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-vorbis_gt3b2_q8.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7
18:51:44 1/1 p=50.0%
18:52:16 2/2 p=25.0%
18:52:36 3/3 p=12.5%
18:53:01 4/4 p=6.2%
18:53:28 5/5 p=3.1%
18:54:24 6/6 p=1.6%
18:54:36 7/7 p=0.8%
18:55:59 8/8 p=0.4%
18:57:10 9/9 p=0.2%
18:59:43 10/10 p< 0.1%
18:59:47 test finished
-----------------------

Nero 6.3.0.3's AAC encoder, Extreme, VBR. Both Nero samples were kindly
prepared by Case. (very easy):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 20:01:38

A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav
B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-nero_extreme.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7
20:02:44 1/1 p=50.0%
20:02:51 2/2 p=25.0%
20:02:58 3/3 p=12.5%
20:03:04 4/4 p=6.2%
20:03:11 5/5 p=3.1%
20:03:24 6/6 p=1.6%
20:03:37 7/7 p=0.8%
20:03:53 8/8 p=0.4%
20:04:00 9/9 p=0.2%
20:04:07 10/10 p< 0.1%
20:04:30 11/11 p< 0.1%
20:04:41 12/12 p< 0.1%
20:04:42 test finished
-----------------------

Nero 6.3.0.3's AAC encoder, Audiophile, VBR (201 kbps) (medium):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 20:09:05

A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav
B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-nero_audiophile.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7
20:09:20 1/1 p=50.0%
20:09:29 2/2 p=25.0%
20:09:42 3/3 p=12.5%
20:09:55 4/4 p=6.2%
20:10:22 5/5 p=3.1%
20:10:43 6/6 p=1.6%
20:10:54 7/7 p=0.8%
20:11:19 8/8 p=0.4%
20:11:30 9/9 p=0.2%
20:12:02 10/10 p< 0.1%
20:12:23 11/11 p< 0.1%
20:12:49 12/12 p< 0.1%
20:12:51 test finished
-----------------------

MPC - mppenc 1.15r --quality 7 (185 kbps) (very hard):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 20:14:22

A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav
B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-mpc_insane.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7
20:14:56 0/1 p=100.0%
20:15:24 1/2 p=75.0%
20:15:58 2/3 p=50.0%
20:16:27 2/4 p=68.8%
20:16:55 2/5 p=81.2%
20:17:18 3/6 p=65.6%
20:18:00 3/7 p=77.3%
20:18:26 4/8 p=63.7%
20:18:43 5/9 p=50.0%
20:19:05 6/10 p=37.7%
20:19:39 7/11 p=27.4%
20:20:02 8/12 p=19.4%
20:20:26 8/13 p=29.1%
20:20:41 9/14 p=21.2%
20:21:11 10/15 p=15.1%
20:21:34 10/16 p=22.7%
20:21:58 11/17 p=16.6%
20:22:19 12/18 p=11.9%
20:22:39 12/19 p=18.0%
20:22:52 13/20 p=13.2%
20:23:27 14/21 p=9.5%
20:23:39 15/22 p=6.7%
20:23:53 16/23 p=4.7%
20:24:04 17/24 p=3.2%
20:24:37 18/25 p=2.2%
20:24:53 19/26 p=1.4%
20:25:51 20/27 p=1.0%
20:26:57 21/28 p=0.6%
20:28:28 22/29 p=0.4%
20:31:15 22/30 p=0.8%
20:31:50 23/31 p=0.5%
20:32:29 23/32 p=1.0%
20:32:53 23/33 p=1.8%
20:33:13 test finished
-----------------------

DualStream --mode extra --quality 0, file bitrate = 182.6 kbps (very easy):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/06/2004 20:46:47

A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav
B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-ofs_extra_quality0.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7
20:47:21 1/1 p=50.0%
20:47:32 2/2 p=25.0%
20:47:46 3/3 p=12.5%
20:48:24 4/4 p=6.2%
20:48:36 5/5 p=3.1%
20:48:50 6/6 p=1.6%
20:49:07 7/7 p=0.8%
20:49:41 8/8 p=0.4%
20:50:14 9/9 p=0.2%
20:50:22 10/10 p< 0.1%
20:50:31 11/11 p< 0.1%
20:50:38 12/12 p< 0.1%
20:50:39 test finished
-----------------------

The APE file can be found
here

High Bitrate Tests

Reply #3 – 2004-02-07 22:29:39

I have yet another sample of the same music style:
The track is "Sync In (original A.F.U. 016 mix)" by Silent Breed. There is smearing/pre-echo again, like in the above 2 samples.

Here are the WinABX logs:

Nero 6.3.0.3's AAC encoder, Extreme, VBR (253 kbps). Both Nero samples were kindly prepared by Case. (easy):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/07/2004 22:57:09

A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav
B file: E:\test3\sync-48-nero_extreme.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6
22:57:43 1/1 p=50.0%
22:57:58 2/2 p=25.0%
22:58:10 3/3 p=12.5%
22:58:20 4/4 p=6.2%
22:58:34 5/5 p=3.1%
22:58:51 6/6 p=1.6%
22:59:20 7/7 p=0.8%
22:59:36 8/8 p=0.4%
22:59:53 9/9 p=0.2%
23:00:08 10/10 p< 0.1%
23:00:22 11/11 p< 0.1%
23:00:34 12/12 p< 0.1%
23:00:38 test finished
--------------------------------

Nero 6.3.0.3's AAC encoder, Audiophile, VBR (301 kbps) (medium):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/07/2004 23:04:34

A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav
B file: E:\test3\sync-48-nero_audiophile.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6
23:05:09 1/1 p=50.0%
23:05:41 2/2 p=25.0%
23:05:48 3/3 p=12.5%
23:06:02 4/4 p=6.2%
23:07:03 5/5 p=3.1%
23:07:13 6/6 p=1.6%
23:07:36 7/7 p=0.8%
23:08:24 8/8 p=0.4%
23:09:05 9/9 p=0.2%
23:09:27 10/10 p< 0.1%
23:10:02 11/11 p< 0.1%
23:12:01 12/12 p< 0.1%
23:12:03 test finished
------------------------------------

LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset insane (very easy):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/07/2004 23:12:44

A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav
B file: E:\test3\sync-48-lame_api.wav

23:13:05 1/1 p=50.0%
23:13:09 2/2 p=25.0%
23:13:17 3/3 p=12.5%
23:13:24 4/4 p=6.2%
23:13:29 5/5 p=3.1%
23:13:36 6/6 p=1.6%
23:13:40 7/7 p=0.8%
23:13:43 8/8 p=0.4%
23:13:46 9/9 p=0.2%
23:13:52 10/10 p< 0.1%
23:13:56 11/11 p< 0.1%
23:14:00 12/12 p< 0.1%
23:14:03 test finished
---------------------------------------

Oggenc GT3b2, Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (GTune 3, beta 2), -q 8 (277 kbps) (hard):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/07/2004 23:22:33

A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav
B file: E:\test3\sync-48-vorbis_gt3b2_q8.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6
23:22:46 1/1 p=50.0%
23:23:08 2/2 p=25.0%
23:23:47 3/3 p=12.5%
23:24:31 4/4 p=6.2%
23:24:56 5/5 p=3.1%
23:25:54 6/6 p=1.6%
23:27:11 7/7 p=0.8%
23:28:25 8/8 p=0.4%
23:31:02 9/9 p=0.2%
23:32:21 10/10 p< 0.1%
23:32:29 test finished
------------------------------------

MPC - mppenc 1.15r --quality 7 (281 kbps) (failure to ABX):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/07/2004 23:36:22

A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav
B file: E:\test3\sync-48-mpc_insane.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6
23:37:42 0/1 p=100.0%
23:38:00 0/2 p=100.0%
23:39:39 1/3 p=87.5%
23:39:54 1/4 p=93.8%
23:40:11 2/5 p=81.2%
23:40:21 2/6 p=89.1%
23:40:46 2/7 p=93.8%
23:41:28 3/8 p=85.5%
23:41:47 3/9 p=91.0%
23:42:10 4/10 p=82.8%
23:42:25 5/11 p=72.6%
23:42:43 6/12 p=61.3%
23:42:57 7/13 p=50.0%
23:43:13 8/14 p=39.5%
23:43:25 9/15 p=30.4%
23:43:49 10/16 p=22.7%
23:44:05 10/17 p=31.5%
23:44:33 10/18 p=40.7%
23:45:09 11/19 p=32.4%
23:45:30 12/20 p=25.2%
23:45:45 13/21 p=19.2%
23:45:57 13/22 p=26.2%
23:46:10 14/23 p=20.2%
23:46:20 15/24 p=15.4%
23:46:32 16/25 p=11.5%
23:46:40 16/26 p=16.3%
23:46:55 17/27 p=12.4%
23:47:08 17/28 p=17.2%
23:47:24 18/29 p=13.2%
23:47:42 19/30 p=10.0%
23:47:59 20/31 p=7.5%
23:48:13 21/32 p=5.5%
23:48:38 22/33 p=4.0%
23:49:06 22/34 p=6.1%
23:49:18 22/35 p=8.8%
23:49:34 23/36 p=6.6%
23:49:45 23/37 p=9.4%
23:49:55 24/38 p=7.2%
23:50:03 24/39 p=10.0%
23:50:19 25/40 p=7.7%
23:50:29 26/41 p=5.9%
23:50:36 26/42 p=8.2%
23:50:48 26/43 p=11.1%
23:51:02 26/44 p=14.6%
23:51:21 27/45 p=11.6%
23:51:30 27/46 p=15.1%
23:51:41 28/47 p=12.1%
23:51:50 29/48 p=9.7%
23:51:58 29/49 p=12.6%
23:52:11 29/50 p=16.1%
23:52:28 29/51 p=20.1%
23:52:56 30/52 p=16.6%
23:53:13 31/53 p=13.6%
23:53:22 32/54 p=11.0%
23:53:30 32/55 p=14.0%
23:53:39 33/56 p=11.4%
23:53:50 34/57 p=9.2%
23:53:57 34/58 p=11.9%
23:54:01 test finished
--------------------------------

DualStream --mode extra --quality 0, file bitrate = 277.3 kbps (easy):

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/08/2004 00:04:05

A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav
B file: E:\test3\sync-48-ofs_extra_quality0.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6
00:04:33 1/1 p=50.0%
00:04:40 2/2 p=25.0%
00:04:47 3/3 p=12.5%
00:05:07 4/4 p=6.2%
00:05:15 5/5 p=3.1%
00:05:29 6/6 p=1.6%
00:05:41 7/7 p=0.8%
00:05:58 8/8 p=0.4%
00:06:19 9/9 p=0.2%
00:06:56 10/10 p< 0.1%
00:07:14 11/11 p< 0.1%
00:07:50 12/12 p< 0.1%
00:07:58 test finished
------------------------------------------------

APE file as a .torrent (BitTorrent client required):
Sync In (original A.F.U. 016 mix)

Edit: All the 3 files I torrent are also available on Ganymed's host (higher speed). Please visit this page and contribute more samples.

High Bitrate Tests

Reply #4 – 2004-02-07 23:19:22

WinABX v0.41 test report
02/08/2004 10:06:08

A file: E:\sync-48.wav
B file: E:\sync-48-nero_extreme.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6
10:06:33 1/1 p=50.0%
10:06:42 1/2 p=75.0%
10:07:03 2/3 p=50.0%
10:07:13 3/4 p=31.2%
10:07:29 3/5 p=50.0%
10:07:46 4/6 p=34.4%
10:07:54 5/7 p=22.7%
10:08:09 6/8 p=14.5%
10:08:28 7/9 p=9.0%
10:08:43 8/10 p=5.5%

High Bitrate Tests

Reply #5 – 2004-02-08 01:12:32

I had 2 bottles of wine just now, but I will give it a shot anyway:

-------------------------------------
WinABX v0.41 test report
02/08/2004 01:51:12

A file: D:\temp\sync-48.wav
B file: D:\temp\sync-48-nero_extreme.wav

Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6
01:52:16 1/1 p=50.0%
01:52:54 2/2 p=25.0%
01:54:03 3/3 p=12.5%
01:54:48 4/4 p=6.2%
01:55:04 5/5 p=3.1%
01:55:49 6/6 p=1.6%
01:56:17 7/7 p=0.8%
01:57:51 8/8 p=0.4%
01:59:53 9/9 p=0.2%
02:02:34 9/10 p=1.1%
02:03:23 10/11 p=0.6%
02:03:37 11/12 p=0.3%
02:03:49 11/13 p=1.1%
02:04:00 11/14 p=2.9%
02:04:55 12/15 p=1.8%
02:05:26 13/16 p=1.1%
02:05:52 14/17 p=0.6%
02:06:35 15/18 p=0.4%
02:06:54 16/19 p=0.2%
02:07:34 17/20 p=0.1%
02:08:01 17/21 p=0.4%
02:08:26 18/22 p=0.2%
02:11:04 test finished