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Topic: VHS vs. Betamax (Read 8375 times) previous topic - next topic
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VHS vs. Betamax

I read somewhere in this forum and elsewhere some time ago that the Betamax tape format was indeed better than VHS, but for marketing reasons the latter replaced the former. However, I have never come across exactly why it was better. Better image quality... How? Did it have better resolution? Less artifacts?

EDIT: Well, now it turns out that there was no significant quality difference between the two, according to this page. How about audio?

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #1 –
Beta must be better quality since it's still used in TV stations (all TV programs are recorded in beta tapes).

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #2 –
I think you're thinking of BetaSP, which is completely different format. It's broadcast quality (analogue, SD, composite, but "broadcast quality") as opposed to Betamax, which is basically "VHS quality".

BetaSP will soon be dead. It's moving towards all DigiBeta now. All new BBC programmes in the UK are on DigiBeta.

Cheers,
David.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #3 –
The quality of Betavideo is somewhere in between VHS and S-VHS. Both Beta and VHS are based on the Azimuth system, but Beta has a luminance area bandwidth of 1.4 MHz versus 1 MHz for VHS. For reference, S-VHS's luminance bandwidth is 1.6 MHz, not much better than Beta. This helps creating noticably sharper picture than in VHS.

VHS downconverts chroma (colour) information to 627 kHz -- this frequency is too low for Azimuth system to work efficiently. This causes colour bleeding as well as other aberrations. Beta format downconverts chroma to 688 kHz and varies the band by 2 kHz for successive fields. Beta's chroma storing technique is basically better than S-VHS's.

Beta is still used in professional applications (TV stations etc), and since DVD and other digital mediums, VHS is nowadays as good as dead. So let the Betavideo scavenger hunt begin

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #4 –
Quote
The quality of Betavideo is somewhere in between VHS and S-VHS. Both Beta and VHS are based on the Azimuth system, but Beta has a luminance area bandwidth of 1.4 MHz versus 1 MHz for VHS. For reference, S-VHS's luminance bandwidth is 1.6 MHz, not much better than Beta. This helps creating noticably sharper picture than in VHS.

I think you're misunderstanding what those figures mean.

The video recording system on all analogue VCRs uses frequency modulation. So, the original amplitude modulated video signal is frequency modulated to record it onto the tape at something like reasonable quality. On VHS, a 0V video signal is modulated at 3.8MHz; 1V video signal becomes 4.8MHz. Values in between scale proportionally, and a changing video signal produces FM side bands well outside this range.

Together with the modulation index, the extent of these side bands define the actual luminance video bandwidth on playback. Typical figures are approximately:

Analogue formats:
VHS and Betamax: 3MHz
Betacam SP: 4.5MHz
S-VHS: 5MHz

Digital formats (for comparison):
D-3: 6MHz
Component digital formats: even more (in theory)



Quote
VHS downconverts chroma (colour) information to 627 kHz -- this frequency is too low for Azimuth system to work efficiently. This causes colour bleeding as well as other aberrations. Beta format downconverts chroma to 688 kHz and varies the band by 2 kHz for successive fields. Beta's chroma storing technique is basically better than S-VHS's.


I don't know about your first point, but as for the second: Betacam SP has a significantly better chrominance bandwidth (and chroma and luma SNR) than S-VHS, but domestic Betamax doesn't have an advantage.


Quote
Beta is still used in professional applications (TV stations etc), and since DVD and other digital mediums, VHS is nowadays as good as dead. So let the Betavideo scavenger hunt begin


Betamax, Betacam, Betacam SP, Betacam SX, and DigiBeta are all different formats.

"Betacam uses cassettes and transports similar to the old Betamax home video format, but the similarities end there. Tape speed is six times higher, and luminance and chrominance are recorded on two separate tracks. The two colour difference signals are compressed in time by two and recorded sequentially on a single track."

from http://www.hut.fi/~iisakkil/videoformats.html


The widely used (but now totally out-of-date) Betacam SP is the analogue "Beta" format used in studios. Of course it's better than VHS - it's a professional format, with good bandwidth and SNR to match. Betamax is a consumer format, with very similar performance to VHS.

Cheers,
David.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #5 –
Didn't Betamax also have smaller tapes with longer running times.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #6 –
The other "beta better" part was it was out to market before VHS, came in hi-fi/stereo before VHS, and had some super (improved picture) version, but I don't know whether that had S-video output.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #8 –
who ever (and where) said that beta's were better except for beta users? 

2bdecided is right,and niktheblak is not;they both should have cca. 3MHz bandwidth and therefore very simillar loking images..........(i might add they both should of included TBC from the start....  )

what destroyed beta?sony's poor decisions (you wanna sell licenses,and not hold them for yourself,stupid),and vhs had 4h tape while beta didn't....and it was probably cheaper etc.

but if anyone has both types of machines let them post few images as captured by his PC capturing board....i believe differences should be marginal.......

inboth systems,y is FM ,and chroma is AM,as color-under,and that's where the problem lies with the color reproduction (AM modulation is very susceptable to noise etc.)
betaSP uses FM for both y and chroma
http://betacam.palsite.info/format.html

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #9 –
well, as I recall, VHS maxes out at about 220 lines of resolution, beta was about 250 LoR, so beta did have only a slightly better picture. Not exactly a night and day situation. And S-VHS was about 400 LoR.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #10 –
Quote
2bdecided is right,and niktheblak is not;they both should have cca. 3MHz bandwidth and therefore very simillar loking images..........

Okay, okay, I'm wrong.

I had this one usually very reliable web page which claimed that the luminance signal in VHS is frequency modulated to a range of 3.8 - 4.8 MHz. In Betamax it was 3.8 - 5.2 MHz, and hence the higher bandwidth. The site talked nothing about FM side bands, and I can't seem to find another (reliable) reference for those figures anyway.

Looks like it's googling for "side bands" for me.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #11 –
shorty,not quite;

3Mhz means ccca. 240lines for both systems....vhs and beta alike....i have tested vhs horiz. resolution (test pattern recordings) and i can say it's cca. 3Mhz as stated.....for sure it's not any more than that!

nik,i've found data (in one book) that vhs luma is 3.8-4.8MHz...
color is at 626.9kHz...

i have also seen beta h.resolution numbers....always simillar as vhs;ie cca. 240 or so...

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #12 –
I'm finding it terribly hard to find/google any concrete data, at least in searching for beta info. I can't even find any beta specs from sony, heh. I haven't looked at JVC's sites yet to see if they have VHS specs up. Everybody seems to agree that beta had a better picture, though so far with only one (300 lines?!? yeah right) exception everybody seems to think that vhs is 240 and beta is 250. Here's a typical 'fact sheet' that I'm finding: http://www.videointerchange.com/formathistory.htm

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #13 –
What you have to do is get off the internet, get down to a library (remember those - filled with all those things made from pulped trees?) and read a good book.


There are a lot of things that just aren't explained properly on the internet. Most things have a better definitive source off-line, especially those pre-dating the internet!

Cheers,
David.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #14 –
and leave the house? you're hilarious

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #15 –
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

D.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #16 –
And a subjective comment, back in the 80s when video was new and you were flash if you had one and you lived in a world of "video nasties", "pirates", etc., the picture quality of the Sony Betamax machines was indeed superior to the VHS (there was no SuperVHS at this time).  I owned both (well my dad took my advice and he bought a Sony because Betamax was acknowledged as technically superior).  Beta tapes became more difficult to rent so we got a VHS player (a few generations later) and the Sony Beta player still had the best picture quality.

Oh and of course beta max tapes are a bit smaller (but who cares you don't watch them on the move).

Oh yeah and we walked to school in those days, and there would be at most one fat kid in every high school (and he was the only one who got a lift from his mum and he was the only single parent family kid).  Haven't times changed, I got old!

Fairy

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #17 –
Quote
and leave the house? you're hilarious

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #18 –
My memory is that Betamax was way in advance, but....  woow, that  was many many moons ago

Wasn't there a third format as well, made by Philips; Philips 2000, or something like that, which was even further up the "I'm better than VHS, but no one uses me, so I am going to wither away quietly" scale? 

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #19 –
Not sure about the quality, but the Philips Video2000 system allowed you to turn the tapes over and record on both sides (just like cassettes). IIRC there were no auto reverse decks, so you couldn't use this extra capacity for more timer recordings etc, but it was a cool feature. My aunty and uncle still have a working deck, or did last Christmas.

EDIT: There are older, stranger domestic formats too. There must be websites around...

Cheers,
David.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #20 –
One key to survival is critical mass.  Beta tende to flourish in areas that had beta video rentals available.  The first real death knell in the US came from libraries which I guess wanted to standardize because then lend stuff back and forth.  THey chose VHS so now
there was a national network of FREE loaner videos.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #21 –
One common story you hear about the VHS' success was that the porn industry focused on the cheaper VHS cassettes and thus this format became more popular with video rentals.

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #22 –
yeap,that too..porn is a great motivator...heh
 

VHS vs. Betamax

Reply #23 –
Quote
One common story you hear about the VHS' success was that the porn industry focused on the cheaper VHS cassettes and thus this format became more popular with video rentals.

Somewhere I read an article whose premis was that porn has driven the early adopters of every visual communication technology since the printing press.  The first porno movies were out only 1 or 2 years after the movie camera was invented.