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Topic: Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum? (Read 5822 times) previous topic - next topic
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Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

I don't know if this is the place  for this kind of post, but I've been using Ahead's/Nero AAC/MP4 encoder since 5.5 and have adopted aac as a novices hobby of sorts. I have rarely been dissapointed in encoding quality, but have reciently found a track that regardless of upping quality/preset VBR levels in the most recent Nero 6.0.0.23 libraries has some obvious high frequency distortions. Do developers want to know about these occurances, or is optimization mainly centered on specific tracks internally and there isn't much need for help from the community?

Thanks.
~Metaphor

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #1 –
All feedback from users is needed. If you have sample which cause problems and you listen them then post about it here! Remember to do an ABX test and post here your results.

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #2 –
The developer of this codec visits this forum regularly, just hope he sees it

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #3 –
Metaphor > did you listened to classical? There are some problems with nero encoder that seem to be more audible with classical than with saturated music (rock, etc...). High frequencies problems. High VBR profile are less affected than lower one (streaming has problems with 2582 - fixed by Ivan with an unofficial version). But i repeat: it concern classical mostly; I've tried on a metallica track, and it sounded fine (for my ears).

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #4 –
^^^ Jazz, actually. The track is from the Album Topaz from the Group Russ Freeman And The Rippingtons. The track in question os Stories of the Painted Desert. When the track first starts out there is a breathy high frequency aural mist that fades in with the acoustic guitar, and when encoded in Nero VBR regardless of preset bit-rates, gets what I would describe as precussive waves added to the normally smooth tones of the breathy ambiance. Is this the known effect that you were mentioning? I could send the first 15 sec of the track uncompressed, if you are interested?

~Metaphor

Edit: Spelling

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #5 –
Quote
I could send the first 15 sec of the track uncompressed, if you are interested?

This would be appreciated. You can upload a uncompressed (or better losslessly compressed) sample to upload forum; according to the rules up to 30 seconds is allowed. As WILU has said, performing a blind listening test (ABX) and reporting the result here would be a good idea. It will dramatically increase the probability that others (including developers) will show interest in what you've found.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #6 –
Quote
Metaphor > did you listened to classical? There are some problems with nero encoder that seem to be more audible with classical than with saturated music (rock, etc...). High frequencies problems. High VBR profile are less affected than lower one (streaming has problems with 2582 - fixed by Ivan with an unofficial version). But i repeat: it concern classical mostly; I've tried on a metallica track, and it sounded fine (for my ears).

2582 that from nero 6.0.0.23 right ?
whee can i get these new "problem free" encoder files?
Sven Bent - Denmark

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #7 –
Absolutely. I'll post the samples tomorrow Morning, and the original 30 sec of the clip. And as I've never done a formal ABX comparison, I'm sure I can google to find the proper methodology, eh? 

~Metaphor

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #8 –
Quote
Absolutely. I'll post the samples tomorrow Morning, and the original 30 sec of the clip.

Posting a losslessly compressed original should be enough (and telling the encoding settings you used).

Quote
And as I've never done a formal ABX comparison, I'm sure I can google to find the proper methodology, eh? 

You'll find all you need in Hydrogenaudio FAQ.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #9 –
Q: As I've never posted a file to this forum before, do I need a benifactor/patron of sorts, or do I need to host it myself (In which case I'm not able to do so)?

Thxs
~Metaphor

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #10 –
Just go to upload forum which you will find on the forum dropdown list or here, start a new thread named something like "Nero AAC problem saple" (or add a post in an existing thread if you find a related one) and attatch the sample to your post. (Only works in upload forum). Then come back here and insert a link to that thread.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #11 –
Posted the sample file here.

I've only had 2 people complete my ABX, so before I post results I'll try and get a few more subjects for better correlation.

~Metaphor

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #12 –
Quote
I've only had 2 people complete my ABX, so before I post results I'll try and get a few more subjects for better correlation.

I hope you didn't understand something wrong. It's enough if 1 person (e.g. You) performs it ...
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #13 –
I've just tested 2.5.8.2 & 2.5.8.4 at ::extreme:: and ::audiophile:: (but I didn't compared both encoders directly).

• At extreme, there's problem on noise: unatural, fluctuating. Easy to ABX. Slight problems on cymbal at the end (pre-echo maybe).
• At audiophile profile, it was more difficult. I had less difficulties to ABX 2.5.8.2 than 2.5.8.4, but without direct comparison, I can't say that the latest aacenc32 is better than the official one.

I didn't tried with ::transcoding::

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #14 –
Quote
I've just tested 2.5.8.2 & 2.5.8.4 at ::extreme:: and ::audiophile:: (but I didn't compared both encoders directly).

• At extreme, there's problem on noise: unatural, fluctuating. Easy to ABX. Slight problems on cymbal at the end (pre-echo maybe).
• At audiophile profile, it was more difficult. I had less difficulties to ABX 2.5.8.2 than 2.5.8.4, but without direct comparison, I can't say that the latest aacenc32 is better than the official one.

I didn't tried with ::transcoding::

2.5.8.2 and 2.5.8.4 are bit identical (header information excluded) with anything except streaming.
2.5.8.4 changed only streaming profile.
Juha Laaksonheimo

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #15 –
Damn, I forgot it! 
So, no difference between both encoders (except listening tiredness).

Encoder Quality Optimization: Right Forum?

Reply #16 –
Quote
I hope you didn't understand something wrong. It's enough if 1 person (e.g. You) performs it ...

Oops! <blush> I though that what ws asked was for a formal participant driven ABX to be produced </blush>.

My personal results were:

10/10 distinction for ::Extreme:: to wav
8/10 distinction for ::Audiophile:: to wav
4/10 distinction for ::Transcoding:: to wav

The main concern was for the fluttering fade in of the noise at the beginning of the track. I didn't even notice the pre-echo that guruboolez was able to pick out on the cymbal - heh.

Thanks!
~Metaphor