Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC? (Read 10657 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Hallo. Anyone have any thoughts or info about how iTunes CD ripping quality compares to EAC?
I know EAC gives you crazy options and whatnot, but for the general user who just wants reliable, clean copies, does anyone know why iTunes wouldn't be good enough?

I've been using EAC for a while but I'm digging iTunes now and just wondering if it's worth it to consolidate my efforts.

Thanks.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #1 –
Quote
Anyone have any thoughts or info about how iTunes CD ripping quality compares to EAC?


Good question.
I don't know that anyone has done enough tests to give a concrete answer.

I'd guess that the quality of the iTunes error correction (C2?) is variable based on the model of the CD drive used, and likely not anywhere as extreme in implementation as EAC (or CDex with full paranoia for that matter).
 
  Whether Apple spec's optical drives with excellent C2 in their own hardware or not is another good question.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #2 –
Note: Preliminary results.

Okay, I just did a quick test on my new "Johnny Socko - Quatro" CD that I purchased on Friday at a show. CD is in perfect condition.

Hardware used: Lite-On 42X CD-RW
Software Used: iTunes 4.1 (windows) and Exact Audio Copy V0.9 Beta 4 22 May 2002

Settings:
iTunes: Convert to WAV, used the "Use Error Correction" option checked.
EAC: Secure Mode, Drive Caches Audio, Drive is capable of retrieving C2 Codes, UNCHECKED use C2 information. Test and Copy on tracks.

I ripped the first 3 tracks, and then the 9th track.

I then created MD5 sums for all the resulting wave files.

Result: iTunes and EAC resulted in matching MD5 sums. Fairly safe to say that both files are the same.

Comments: I can't do that cool "diff" trick using CoolEdit because I don't have it, so I can't exactly say that the files are exactly the same (but they do have the same MD5 sums, which is pretty good support). Also, the CD in question was in perfect condition, just recently opened and played in a CD player once or twice. So, the error recovery part is not being questioned.

I might add CDex w/ Full Paranoia (was going to, then CDex flipped out on me) to the mix. Then I'll grab a slightly scratched CD, and one that has some more damage to it (if I can find one) and retest. The speeds of EAC and iTunes were fairly comparable, I don't remember exactly but I usually get something like 11x in EAC and was seeing about the same (maybe 15x) in iTunes.

In Conclusion, atleast for a prestine CD iTunes w/ their Error Correction on is on par with EAC.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #3 –
Quote
In Conclusion, atleast for a prestine CD iTunes w/ their Error Correction on is on par with EAC.

On mint CDs ANY ripper will give identical results unless it's doing something funky with the data, like normalising.
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #4 –
iTune is good enough for most people!!
Let's make things better!

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #5 –
Quote
Quote
In Conclusion, atleast for a prestine CD iTunes w/ their Error Correction on is on par with EAC.

On mint CDs ANY ripper will give identical results unless it's doing something funky with the data, like normalising.

Surely that's not true. When you read the rationale for developing the paranoia libs in the first place, its not the quality of the CD (or the ripping software) that is questioned though obviously that's a factor too. It's the reliability of accurately extracting digital audio from an Audio CD in a computer CD drive.

http://www.xiph.org/paranoia/faq.html#usecdparanoia

http://www.xiph.org/paranoia/faq.html#play

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #6 –
It is true, if an CD is in perfect condition then any CD ripper should give the same results.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #7 –
Quote
iTune is good enough for most people!!

Common ripping software are enough for common needs. That's all. iTunes is probably a common ripping tool, without great error detection, no ripping log, etc... Like dozens of other similar softwares.
People are using EAC for security. Security on scratched CD, security for new and clean CD that might have errors. No need to perform any bit-to-bit or md5 comparison in order to compare overall extraction quality. Better take few scratched CD, and then compare the behaviour and the results of both software.
Wavpack Hybrid -c4hx6

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #8 –
Quote
It is true, if an CD is in perfect condition then any CD ripper should give the same results.

Did you read the links I posted above (especially the 2nd one)? It goes into detail about why reading digital audio from an Audio CD is tricky and dependant on the drive amongst other things.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'd just like some more support than a slightly uncertain sounding assertion (i.e. "should" or "will"?).

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #9 –
I have read it, it talks about regular clicking - if any CD ripping program cannot sync the data propperly then I would laugh at it. It talks about problems in firmwares, as though Paranoid ripping will get over a bug in the firmware. Lots of FUD, however I will admit a re-reading scheme like EAC employs can help recover errors on a scratched CD, if only by virtue of giving the CD drive another chance at ripping.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #10 –
I still don't know, what this "Use Error Correction" in iTunes 4.1 really does.
Yesterday I ripped a pretty badly scratched CD twice in iTunes and used the Toast "Compare-Tool" to compare the two rips.
The rips were identical.
But I am sure the quality of the rips still heaviliy depends on the quality of the CD-Drive.
I have a Matshita CDRW drive built into my Powerbook 12". This drive seems to handle scratched CDs very well. I wonder what iTunes does, when ripping a unreadable CD. Would it just rip and import all tracks or would you be told that the CD was unreadable?
Unfortunately I don't have a bad enough CD to test.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #11 –
I ripped a ton of CDs recently and three gave me trouble, with one track on each refusing to rip.

iTunes gave up on two of them leaving partial song rips, and when produced the spinning rainbow of death for the third.

I could only find the third CD right now but when I tried to rip it I got some bizarre results:

Try #1: without secure ripping enabled, it gets further than it ever did before but is going very slowly (0.2x realtime) and keeps stuttering out half-second snatches of the song as I have iTunes set to play songs as they rip. Feeling that it is close and not wanting to wait I  try to cancel the import, get a spinning rainbow and so force quit.

Try #2: Still without secure ripping, I turn off playing while importing. The song imports for the first time ever achieving 3.0x realtime after pausing at the tricky bit. Slightly surprised by this but impressed.

Try #3: Switch on secure ripping: the rip stops at the same point it always used to (about 14 seconds in) and stalls there until I force quit.

Try #4,5 etc.: This is where it gets weird as I can't now replicate any result, bar the spinning rainbow of doom, no matter what settings I try.

I don't know what that proves if anything, but it least it gives an insight into what iTunes does when ripping severely flawed CDs.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #12 –
Would you be willing to try the same CD in EAC (assuming you have a PC) bawjaws? I'd be very interested to see whether it can salvage the rip or not.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #13 –
Why do the people care so much about iTunes' ripping capabilities?. 

Why don't you just use EAC, make a CUE image, and then load in a virtual drive program, like DAEMON Tools and then "virtually rip" with iTunes, so you get your files, 100% error free, and RIGHT tagged with iTunes ready to get on the iPod  . Pretty much good huh? 

Thanx to Radu for this advise... lol... ^^
XviD

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #14 –
Quote
Why do the people care so much about iTunes' ripping capabilities?. 

Well I for one care because my main computer platform is the Mac and apart from iTunes new secure ripping feature there is only one rather shoddy implementation of the paranoia libs available. I did plan to dual boot PPC Linux but got bored waiting and made a start with iTunes. You can imagine how pleased I was that iTunes 4.1 turned up with at least some kind of secure ripping.

(and if I was a PC user, I think the answer would be "ease of use")

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #15 –
Quote
...iTunes new secure ripping feature...

I doubt that there is basis for calling the iTunes ripper secure. It's better than the old ripper, but why would Apple want to make a secure ripper? They're interested in making a decent compromise between ripping speed and read quality, not making a ripper which is guaranteed to give 99,9% correct output, at 10% the speed.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #16 –
Im sure EAC =winner

try to let your dog(cats prefered) play around with the cd, then re-do the test with itune or whatever with EAC

cheer
My Favorite Lame Preset

--alt-preset fast insane

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #17 –
Quote
Lots of FUD,

These links are not FUD, they are from 1999. In 1999, there were still some CD ROM drives didn't even feature DAE.

Quote
Unfortunately I don't have a bad enough CD to test.

Andre Wiethoff's DAEquality kit can test any ripper for ripping quality.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #18 –
In replying to my post some time later...

I am now using a G3 iBook with iTunes 4.1 to rip some CD's. However I am really having problems with quality. Lots, lots of clicking. These are somewhat-used but cared for CD's, and the clicking happens at the same places in the songs, even after 2 or 3 AAC rips and 1 WAV rip, with error checking turned on the whole time.

When I rip with my desktop PC with iTunes, the clicking is considerably less, though still present here and there.

Of course with EAC there is no clicking.

So, that answers my question anyway -- iTunes is not comparable to EAC, not even for the casual user in my opinion. Using an iBook and good quality CDs I would not expect the amount of clicking that's coming through. Maybe if you have a better quality CD ROM it's not so much an issue; perhaps these old iBook drives are lame.

Sucks because I was hoping to transition to Mac 100%, now guess I'm stuck with the PC, at least for decent ripping.

EAC, please, please make a Mac version! I would pay for it!! 

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #19 –
Quote
When I rip with my desktop PC with iTunes, the clicking is considerably less, though still present here and there.

Of course with EAC there is no clicking.

So, that answers my question anyway -- iTunes is not comparable to EAC, not even for the casual user in my opinion. Using an iBook and good quality CDs I would not expect the amount of clicking that's coming through. Maybe if you have a better quality CD ROM it's not so much an issue; perhaps these old iBook drives are lame.


Thanks for the update. It does seem rather strange that a newer model Mac would have such noticeable problems with CD's in good condition. I wonder how CDex w/paranoia would compare here (on these plarticular discs) 

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #20 –
Hey, what about ripping with foobar2000? Anybody knows how does it compare to EAC & iTunes?

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #21 –
Quote
Hey, what about ripping with foobar2000? Anybody knows how does it compare to EAC & iTunes?

I don't think foobar can rip CDs.

iTunes CD ripping vs. EAC?

Reply #22 –
Quote
Why do the people care so much about iTunes' ripping capabilities?.  

Why don't you just use EAC, make a CUE image, and then load in a virtual drive program, like DAEMON Tools and then "virtually rip" with iTunes, so you get your files, 100% error free, and RIGHT tagged with iTunes ready to get on the iPod   . Pretty much good huh?  

Thanx to Radu for this advise... lol... ^^

I think you missed the point of my advice. I was offering a solution if you wanted to rip & encode with iTunes and still needed to keep EAC's security features. This thread, however, is addressing the issue of whether iTunes' ripping capabilities match EAC's. The reason I think people care about iTunes' ripping capabilities is because ripping & encoding is easier to set up than in EAC.....and possibly because it looks better .
Happiness - The agreeable sensation of contemplating the misery of others.