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  • Miles
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Hello. I'm a member of Hydrogen Audio community since 29.09.2001. All this time I was visiting hydrogenaudio.org almost everyday, and I learned much things from it. Thanks a lot. All this time I tried to keep my posts at minimum, posting only when I know that I can help with advice or so.
Today I decided to share an idea, which was floating in my mind for some time. I though it was nice, I tried to describe it as much as I can, having in mind that english is not my native language. I though I'd see some creative opinions, some advices etc.
All I got was many useless posts with plenty of Foobar2000 stuff.
I got even a warning from the foobar2000 forum admin.
You can see the tread here.
If you, The Admins, agree, that I was trolling, and I was wishing to do harm, I was not right in my posts, please delete my account (Miles) permanently. If not, please, restore my warning status to 0 and ask, that Foobar2000 forum administrator give the apropriate excuse to me.
I will not post more, until you decide what to do with my account.
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 05:03:09 PM by Miles

  • Peter
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #1
For your information, I'm the only active site admin at the moment (both Dibrom and JohnV are offline), and responding to such "situations" was one of reasons why I was given admin access here. Perhaps I should get my title changed, to prevent more confusion regarding this. Apparently AtaqueEG mistook your thread for another foobar2000 thread misposted in general hydrogenaudio forum, because those happen at least on weekly basis. I actually have mistaken it too, but I wasn't 100% sure so I left it where it was, instead of moving. But AtaqueEG's post was definately not trolling, while your response to it (and further posts) were. Please keep it calm and civilized, and your warning level will be restored to 0.

  • Miles
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #2
I promised that I will not post more, until the admins decision, but I will answer to you.

I'm the last man here, who will question your admin rights. If you have them, there should be a reason. And you decide who is trolling, who is not, who should be warned etc. That's a big responsability, and I do not envy you.

I know, that as a primary Foobar2000 developer, and Foobar2000 site manager you are not unbiased, but I tell you what I think.
Today I posted an idea, sharing it with the community, and I was expecting some substantial discussion about it. The first answer I got was "This thread belongs to Foobar forum".
Forgive me, but I care for my idea, and I was shocked, when somebody told me, that it belongs elsewhere.
Foobar2000 could be very nice player, may be even the best, but I don't know. And I don't know, because I don't like it. And how come that I don't like it, without even seeing it ever?
Very simple. I am a regular visitor (and member) of the Hydrogen Audio since it's start. I even remember and was registered user of the old R3Mix forum. That was in ancient, pre-foobar times.
And then suddenly - everywhere foobar! In every post - foobar. What's the time? - Foobar. What's your favorite song? - Foobar. What's the best Lame preset? - Foobar.
Sorry, I exaggerate, but that's only to get my point.
You can bet that I was not happy at all, seeing, that my idea belongs to Foobar forum.
That's why I asked not to mention foobar in replies to my post. Because I didn't want to start another - What's-the-time-it-is-foobar topic. If my idea is any good, it's for all players - even for foobar (if you like it).

I can understand your feelings regarding foobar stuff, and I even sympathize to them.
My account is the last thing, which can cast a shadow on your creation.
But, since you are not unbiased, and I also, but you are in admin position, and I am not, please, let Dibrom and JohnV decide what was my behaviour, and will my account be deleted, or I will have my warn status restored, with the relevant excuses.

My best regards to you, and all members!

Edit: much typos, I gues I was too emotional. 
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 05:57:50 PM by Miles

  • Peter
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #3
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And then suddenly - everywhere foobar! In every post - foobar. What's the time? - Foobar. What's your favorite song? - Foobar. What's the best Lame preset? - Foobar.
And you are the fisrt person to have a problem with this (or at least publicly express it) since foobar2000 topics got (by public demand) removed from portal page. Can you point examples where such "everywhere foobar" thing happens other than in your thread ?
I'm sorry, but what you've done is a classic "user asks question, another user answers, original poster doesn't like the answer, thread turns into a flamewar" thing.
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 05:31:51 PM by zZzZzZz

  • Peter
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #4
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But, since you are not unbiased, and I also, but you are in admin position, and I am not, please, let Dibrom and JohnV decide what was my behaviour, and will my account be deleted, or I will have my warn status restored, with the relevant excuses.
Biased towards what ? When trolling happens, I don't care what the subject is, you were the one to start it, and you got what you were asking for. "Warning" function revealing user group of the person sending it is the only faulty part here, someone else could have sent that instead and this discussion wouldn't be happening.

  • Garf
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Reply #5
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Can you point examples where such "everywhere foobar" thing happens other than in your thread ?

I guess he means that a lot of times when something gets asked (also for another player), you get answers 'foobar can do this' or 'foobar does it better' etc...

For obvious reasons, HA has a high foobar-zealot rate. Given that we also have a lot of MP3, MPC, Vorbis, AAC, FLAC, MAC, ... zealots, I don't see it as a particular problem.

_If_ you feel things are getting out of hand, report to the moderators. 'Counterstrikes' like in the original thread just make things go from bad to worse.
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 05:53:37 PM by Garf

  • Miles
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #6
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Biased towards what ? When trolling happens, I don't care what the subject is, you were the one to start it, and you got what you were asking for.

You think, I start my topic, just to have my warning status increased, because I don't want my idea to belong to other forum?

Quote
"Warning" function revealing user group of the person sending it is the only faulty part here, someone else could have sent that instead and this discussion wouldn't be happening.

Yes, you're absolutely right. If I din't know that Foobar developer warned me for "trolling", this discussion wouldn't be happening. But since I saw who gave me the warning, the things became absolutely clear. And I can understand why you don't like this function - if your usergroup remains hidden, you can give warning to everyone, who doesn't like Foobar, and says it out loud.
And, if as you say, I get what I want, then please have in mind that I want either excuse, or account deletion.
To be fair, let Dibrom and JohnV do the judgement.

  • sthayashi
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Reply #7
A rule of thumb is that if you are unjustifiably annoying, you will be officially warned.  Why? because that's what I'd do if I ran this site.

Interspersing literally every other word with a bold Foobar2000 is annoying and without just cause.  Now, although I don't have any admin or moderator powers, here's what I would ask you to do:  Edit that post to be less annoying and apologize for it.

It's a simple enough task and it shows good faith on your part; and if Dibrom/JohnV are feeling forgiving, they will remove your warning.

  • Garf
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #8
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Quote
Biased towards what ? When trolling happens, I don't care what the subject is, you were the one to start it, and you got what you were asking for.

You think, I start my topic, just to have my warning status increased, because I don't want my idea to belong to other forum?


You did not start the trolling IMHO. You _did_ spampost, which is making things go out of hand. See my reply above.

Quote
Yes, you're absolutely right. If I din't know that Foobar developer warned me for "trolling", this discussion wouldn't be happening. But since I saw who gave me the warning, the things became absolutely clear.


Given what you posted, I'd presume most admins/mods reading that thread would have reacted in some way.

Quote
And I can understand why you don't like this function - if your usergroup remains hidden, you can give warning to everyone, who doesn't like Foobar, and says it out loud.


All warnings that are given are required to be justified by the admin/mod who does them and are logged. If Peter were found to be abusing the system to pester non-foobar users, I'm fairly sure all foobar2000 stuff would be out of here very quickly, so don't count on that.

  • Peter
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #9
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You think, I start my topic, just to have my warning status increased, because I don't want my idea to belong to other forum?

Geezes, read my first reply here.
Quote
Apparently AtaqueEG mistook your thread for another foobar2000 thread misposted in general hydrogenaudio forum, because those happen at least on weekly basis. I actually have mistaken it too, but I wasn't 100% sure so I left it where it was, instead of moving.
Nobody claims that your idea "belongs" to something. Appearance of your thread made some people think that it was a foobar2000 feature request accidentially posted in the wrong forum, because such situations have happened several times before.

[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #10
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For obvious reasons, HA has a high foobar-zealot rate. Given that we also have a lot of MP3, MPC, Vorbis, AAC, FLAC, MAC, ... zealots, I don't see it as a particular problem.

Well, as much as that's true (and as much as I am most of those  ), I think the main thing he needed was an answer to a general question. Sure, his (I think good) idea could be implemented in fb2k, but it could also be implemented in winamp or a cd-stereo system. I believe the main problem lies in that he was mentioning a general idea, not an 'I have a suggestion for a fb2k plugin' idea. By being directly pointed to the fb2k forums for posting a simple, general idea by a user, he has gotten understandably angry.

However, points against him are twofold: 1.) Users do not represent the entire HA.org community, and 2.) His spamming in his reply is just that; spam.
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 06:04:32 PM by pseudoacoustic

  • ancl
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #11
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Yes, you're absolutely right. If I din't know that Foobar developer warned me for "trolling", this discussion wouldn't be happening. But since I saw who gave me the warning, the things became absolutely clear. And I can understand why you don't like this function - if your usergroup remains hidden, you can give warning to everyone, who doesn't like Foobar, and says it out loud.
And, if as you say, I get what I want, then please have in mind that I want either excuse, or account deletion.
To be fair, let Dibrom and JohnV do the judgement.

Please!!

You write the most irritating post (the spam) I have read here in a long time, and when you then get a warning you think it is because of the subject?
How paranoid can a person be...
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 06:11:32 PM by ancl

  • Garf
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Reply #12
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I believe the main problem lies in that he was mentioning a general idea, not an 'I have a suggestion for a fb2k plugin' idea. By being directly pointed to the fb2k forums for posting a simple, general idea by a user, he has gotten understandably angry.

As explained above, that was a misunderstanding.

If you'd want to see the idea in practise, guess whose players'developers you'll reach the fastest here, and will have the best chance of convincing.

Not wanting anyone to mention foobar in response is hence, IMHO, rather silly.

  • Miles
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #13
Quote
A rule of thumb is that if you are unjustifiably annoying, you will be officially warned.  Why? because that's what I'd do if I ran this site.

Interspersing literally every other word with a bold Foobar2000 is annoying and without just cause.  Now, although I don't have any admin or moderator powers, here's what I would ask you to do:  Edit that post to be less annoying and apologize for it.

It's a simple enough task and it shows good faith on your part; and if Dibrom/JohnV are feeling forgiving, they will remove your warning.

Well, Sthayashi, I am sure that the warning is given for a reason, and I agree that the reason could be unjustifiably annoying behaviour.
The only goal here, is to track the thread, and to judge who's behaviouris unjustifiably annoying. That's why the admins are. And that's why I wan't the admins to judge. And even my warning was given from an admin, but, bad luck, he is Foobar developer, and Foobar forum manager, which tells me he is not unbiased, and that's normal.
Yes, my post with many bold foobar2000's doesn't look good. But if you follow the thread, you can see that the previous post was filled with bold Foobar2000, and it's from the same person, who told that my idea belong to Foobar forum, and that's after I showed, that I don't want Foobar stuff in this thread. Yes, I was angry. Yes, I was trying to show how annoying is to have Foobar2000 everywhere. But there is also a meaningful text inbetween foobars, maybe it's better if you try to read it. That is the main. Foobar was just for illustration.

That's why I want Dibrom and JohnV to decide if I started the flame or not. And if they decide that I was the one who started all - to delete my account. I think it's fair enough.
I would mind if zZzZzZz judges, but in that case he isn't unbiased. Twice.
One, because he was the one who gave me warning, and second because he is a foobar developer.

Am I still not clear?

  • Miles
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Reply #14
OK, people, I agree, my spamming is a spam.
Guess why I posted spam in the forum, which I visit everyday, and treasure most?
Maybe because I was feeling spammy?

  • Peter
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Reply #15
Does this mean that I - after being selected by other admins for this function - can't respond to "nice" posts that have something to do with foobar2000 because my response will be recognized as "biased" and the person who made the "nice" post will launch a personal counterattack against me ?
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 06:24:52 PM by zZzZzZz

  • sthayashi
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Reply #16
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Well, Sthayashi, I am sure that the warning is given for a reason, and I agree that the reason could be unjustifiably annoying behaviour.
The only goal here, is to track the thread, and to judge who's behaviouris unjustifiably annoying. That's why the admins are. And that's why I wan't the admins to judge. And even my warning was given from an admin, but, bad luck, he is Foobar developer, and Foobar forum manager, which tells me he is not unbiased, and that's normal.
Yes, my post with many bold foobar2000's doesn't look good. But if you follow the thread, you can see that the previous post was filled with bold Foobar2000, and it's from the same person, who told that my idea belong to Foobar forum, and that's after I showed, that I don't want Foobar stuff in this thread. Yes, I was angry. Yes, I was trying to show how annoying is to have Foobar2000 everywhere. But there is also a meaningful text inbetween foobars, maybe it's better if you try to read it. That is the main. Foobar was just for illustration.
Your defense reminds me a friend who is a lawyer.  You're claiming that you were justified in submitting an extremely annoying post simply because someone else wrote a post that was semi-annoying.

I'm 99.99% certain Dibrom will agree with Peter's decision, especially if you don't apologize for it and correct it.

Yes, I did read between your words, but it gave me a headache doing so. I would have given you a warning if I had the power to do so (maybe I should have reported it?).
Quote
OK, people, I agree, my spamming is a spam.
Guess why I posted spam in the forum, which I visit everyday, and treasure most?
Maybe because I was feeling spammy?
No, I recognize that you were trying to make a point that foobar2000 is mentioned a lot in your thread.  That doesn't mean that you weren't f***ing annoying in making that point.

Edit: Grammar & Clarity
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 06:27:36 PM by sthayashi

  • Miles
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Reply #17
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If you'd want to see the idea in practise, guess whose players'developers you'll reach the fastest here, and will have the best chance of convincing.

Not wanting anyone to mention foobar in response is hence, IMHO, rather silly.

In fact I want to see my idean in practice, but my idea is mainly to develop and accept it as a standard for marking (ranking) audio (may be not only) files. Whose player will support it first (if ever accepted!  ) I don't care much. I was thinking more from the file rating side, than from the playing side. I hope you understand my bad english. 
And I am afraid (maybe again because of my bad english) that I was misunderstood when I said "No more Foobar stuff in this topic". I wouldn't mind if somebody writes "Your idea is nice, but a better rating system is implemented already in Foobar player" or something similar. You can see, there are number of players pointed out in that thread. But saying "your thread belongs to..." or posts like "
Quote
Indeed, but I don't see it happening, they way you want it too anywhere else than in foobar2000. That's because foobar2000 has a really good SDK and a very knowledgeable and open- minded user base that could, maybe be talked into implementing this kinda thing. iRiver players? They are great for sure, but, as you where told before, the best tag to hold this kind of meta-information is APE2 tag, and only foobar2000 supports those.
can get the spammer out of me.
And if I am so much evil spammer, the admins know what to do with me.

  • Garf
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[USELESS] Please, delete my account!
Reply #18
Quote
posts like "
Quote
Indeed, but I don't see it happening, they way you want it too anywhere else than in foobar2000. That's because foobar2000 has a really good SDK and a very knowledgeable and open- minded user base that could, maybe be talked into implementing this kinda thing. iRiver players? They are great for sure, but, as you where told before, the best tag to hold this kind of meta-information is APE2 tag, and only foobar2000 supports those.
can get the spammer out of me.


If this kind of post gets you spamming, I will personally make sure your account is deleted as soon as possible.

Quote
And if I am so much evil spammer, the admins know what to do with me.


If you only wanted admins, wtf post all of this.
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 06:40:57 PM by Garf

  • Mac
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Reply #19
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That doesn't mean that you weren't f***ing annoying in making that point.

Edit: Grammar & Clarity

A nice clear point being made? 

I sympathise with Miles in that too many player related questions are answered with Foobar, just like a lot of audio questions are answered with MPC despite being about specifically another codec.  The Foobar spam was comical considering the previous posts
< w o g o n e . c o m / l o l >

  • Miles
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Reply #20
To Sthayashi:

My defense reminds you for your friend lawyer? My grand dad was a judge, maybe I've taken something from him. But I'm a musician and soundengineer. 

You tell me that my post was ultra-annoying, in reply to a post that was semi-annoying. Yes, but you judge from YOUR point of view. Not from mine.
And yes, there are things such as a semi and full annoying posts, but there is also who started first etc.
My fault is, that I got angry, I got "caught", but I am ready to face the consequences. I wanted to show where a gradation leads. I agree that it's no good at all, and I hope that this could make people to think a little more before starting to troll and spam. Maybe not. I don't know.
Will see.
Really my last post fro today. I go to bed. The morning is always better than the evening.
Good night.
  • Last Edit: 12 September, 2003, 06:49:55 PM by Miles

  • nick705
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Reply #21
jeez, Dibrom...pleeeze...where the hell are you??

  • Jan S.
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Reply #22
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jeez, Dibrom...pleeeze...where the hell are you??

In Amsterdam...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/12644

  • sthayashi
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Reply #23
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You tell me that my post was ultra-annoying, in reply to a post that was semi-annoying. Yes, but you judge from YOUR point of view. Not from mine.
And yes, there are things such as a semi and full annoying posts, but there is also who started first etc.

True, this is MY point of view, but I'm also a pretty laid back about most things.  Truth be told, I think Dibrom is pretty strict when laying down the rules, but that's his right and I can't complain since I find the discussion is usually very intelligent and friendly.

If you want to get into semantics, you started it by bashing foobar without provocation. However, from what I've seen of the policies here, I don't think the admins will care who started it.

  • nick705
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Reply #24
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QUOTE (nick705 @ Sep 13 2003, 01:00 AM)
jeez, Dibrom...pleeeze...where the hell are you??

In Amsterdam...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/12644


--------------------
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Aha...now you're talking...

Come on guys, chill out, smoke some skunk...

In 100 years or so, we'll all be equally dead, regardless of how "right" we thought we were about anything, how long we lived, how happy/unhappy we were, etc etc...

hmmm...time for bed I guess...