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Topic: ASIO question/alternatives (Read 2116 times) previous topic - next topic
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ASIO question/alternatives

On fb2k components page I read this paragraph:

Quote
Please note that this component is meant for systems where ASIO is the only available output method. It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance.

What are the alternatives?
I do want to have BitStream audio unprocessed by Windows.

Re: ASIO question/alternatives

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Gabriel Schwartz on
On fb2k components page I read this paragraph:

Quote
Please note that this component is meant for systems where ASIO is the only available output method. It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance.

What are the alternatives?
I do want to have BitStream audio unprocessed by Windows.
Back when WASAPI was not the default output mode and had to be added via a plugin, it's my distinct memory that the add-on foo_wasapi component actually contained a similar statement (from Peter!) which claimed DirectSound with its Windows Mixer was just fine for audio fidelity and he was only providing the WASAPI plugin as a sort of "cave-in" to users who used hardware expecting it.  That astounded me at the time, and I wouldn't be surprised if people now think I'm "full of it" and it never happened.  The statement has been removed from the archived component's description, but "echos" of the representation can be felt in the article "Bypassing Windows Mixer" in the HA Knowledgebase, in statements like "Quality gains are questionable at best," "low latency playback is... completely useless for music playback," "Forfeits advantages of modern Windows audio pipeline," and "Interacting with soundcard drivers directly rather than letting Windows Mixer do it will often expose soundcard driver bugs that can't be triggered otherwise and lead to system-wide instability."  While technically none of those are out-and-out WRONG, my, how times have changed, haha..

As far as the ASIO plugin statements, not being an ASIO user I have no basis to comment on them except that the mode is extremely popular despite its setup twitchiness and reliance on 3rd-party driver compatibility, but when done right it does provide bit-perfect sound, ability to use a greater channel mode selection (? I may understand that wrong), and appears to be accepted or expected by a wide variety of DSD hardware.

I'm not dissing Peter.  Back then, the bit-perfect concept was firmly in the "2-gauge oxygen free copper" world.  People have come to expect more from technology that has developed with the ability to provide it.  I mean, I'll take Case's SoX Resampler anyday over Speex.  My opinion is that improvements regardless of how tiny or "inaudible" in a single processing stage, when consistently applied across a whole range of software/hardware can produce noticeable results, even if "sometimes" or with "certain specific examples."  It's FUN, also, it's very interesting.

Re: ASIO question/alternatives

Reply #4 –
> Case's SoX Resampler

Reply #4 By Case: https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,118566.msg978194.html#msg978194

The developer of SoX Resampler is lvqcl.

Please continue, sorry about that.
SHURE SRH1840, SENNHEISER HD660S2, SENNHEISER HD620S, SENNHEISER HD 490 Pro Plus, beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, HiFiMAN Edition XS, HIFIMAN ANANDA, Bowers & Wilkins P7, FiiO FT5, FiiO FT1 Pro, 水月雨 (MOONDROP) 空鳴 - VOID, SONY WH1000XM5 (made a Upgrade/Balanced Cable by myself)

Re: ASIO question/alternatives

Reply #6 –
Quote from: sveakul on
Quote from: Gabriel Schwartz on
On fb2k components page I read this paragraph:

Quote
Please note that this component is meant for systems where ASIO is the only available output method. It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance.

What are the alternatives?
I do want to have BitStream audio unprocessed by Windows.
… It's FUN, also, it's very interesting.

Music is fun but your extensive reply is not what I was looking for.
I get it some like to add all kind of manipulation to the sound via DSP.
I don’t.
As for “inaudible”, it depends on many things like the mastering, DAC, preamp, amp & speakers.
As for cables, any decent speaker cable like 12AWG is more than enough.
I had friends listening to my system and I played them the same song from, DSD, PCM and lossless Apple Music.
I didn’t tell them which is which. All three voted the same and the ranking they gave to the sound quality was the same as I listed above. I guess old tech DSD is still superior.
Having said that, I did started with mastering which IMHO has the most effect on quality. I have bad DSD and better PCM of the same album.
Since you don’t use ASIO and you won’t mind DSP, it’s fine by me.
The reason I’m looking for an alternative is due to bad ASIO plugin implementation.
I used to use, foo_asio+dsd until recently when I found it gets stuck on format switches between HiRes PCM and DSD256.
I tried the official ASIO from fb2k and saw the note and was wondering what are the alternatives.

Thank you for your contribution

Re: ASIO question/alternatives

Reply #7 –
Just to clarify.
I am only looking for an alternative to ASIO and not trying to open a debate on what’s best.
BitStream, Windows or anything in between.

Re: ASIO question/alternatives

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Gabriel Schwartz on
I have onboard soundcard disabled in my UEFI.
Will it show WASAPI?

I think so. Try enabling it in BIOS, then check foobar if it shows up or not.

These are my onboard (ASUS motherboard) sound devices as seen in foobar. Green box = WASAPI exclusive.




Do not mistake it with the WASAPI shared (Orange box, without the word exclusive)

Re: ASIO question/alternatives

Reply #9 –
Quote from: boxerfan88 on
Quote from: Gabriel Schwartz on
I have onboard soundcard disabled in my UEFI.
Will it show WASAPI?

I think so. Try enabling it in BIOS, then check foobar if it shows up or not.

These are my onboard (ASUS motherboard) sound devices as seen in foobar. Green box = WASAPI exclusive.

[attach width=500]34715[/attach]


Do not mistake it with the WASAPI shared (Orange box, without the word exclusive)

[attach width=250]34717[/attach]

You’ve got plenty on devices.
Anyway, I’ve enabled the sound in UEFI and found the Exclusive output.
However, if I uninstall HoloAudio ASIO driver it disappears.
Another interesting fact is that HoloAudio Control Panel shows PCM when I play DSD but the DAC shows DSD. This means that it goes out as DoP which as long as the DAC handles it I don’t mind.