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Topic: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality (Read 5047 times) previous topic - next topic
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Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Hello everyone, I am looking forward to rip a song I badly need from Vinyl to Digital, so I can listen to it on a digital way.
Can anyone please tell me which is the best tool I can use in MAC to rip from Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality?

I've done some research but wanted to make sure that I will do it once & in the best way :)
I read somewhere that a good tip would be to originally record it in 24/44 (so less noise is present) and then convert to 16/44.

Your answers & suggestion would be highly appreciated :)

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #1
What equipment do you have available for doing this?

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #2
What equipment do you have available for doing this?
Hello, thank you for your answer. I am using a Vinyl Player Audio Technica with USB for transfer.
Any good suggestion for MAC and the best configurations for best audio rip?

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #3
Since you can't "rip" an LP like you would a CD (ie by reading the data rather than playing it), all you are doing is inputting the audio from the LP by playing it, at 1x speed.  Any audio recorder or editor app will do that.  You'll probably want something which can remove clicks and hiss and then split the overall recording into tracks – if it were Windows I would use Audacity, I don't know what's available for Mac.

There is very little point saving the result as lossless, there will be no quality to preserve.
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #4
Since you can't "rip" an LP like you would a CD (ie by reading the data rather than playing it), all you are doing is inputting the audio from the LP by playing it, at 1x speed.  Any audio recorder or editor app will do that.  You'll probably want something which can remove clicks and hiss and then split the overall recording into tracks – if it were Windows I would use Audacity, I don't know what's available for Mac.

There is very little point saving the result as lossless, there will be no quality to preserve.

Thanks for your answer. There will be 1 track only that I need to rip, not the whole Vinyl.
Unfortunately I will have to do it from a Mac computer, that's why I was asking for a tool and for the best configurations.

I need to export in lossless so no more sound deteriorations are made.


Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #6
if it were Windows I would use Audacity, I don't know what's available for Mac.
Audacity has always been multi platform and is currently available for Windows, MAC, and Linux:
https://www.audacityteam.org/download/


Thanks for your answer. Do you have any suggestions for the settings I should set in Audacity for the best rip?

 

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #7
Thanks for your answer. Do you have any suggestions for the settings I should set in Audacity for the best rip?

With Audacity as it's multi-track digital audio editing software, you can export a Wav file out of the box but you need the FFMPEG add-on to export to other formats: https://lame.buanzo.org/ffmpeg.php

FFMPEG is multi-platform and is it's own tool for encoding and decoding various digital formats both lossless and lossy and common and obscure formats and it has a MAC version as well: https://evermeet.cx/ffmpeg/

FLAC is multi-platform for compressing exported WAVs and AIFFs and is the most well known of lossless formats and has a MAC version: https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/flac

WavPack is multi-platform and has a MAC version and is similar to FLAC: https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/wavpack

Of course there's Apple Lossless (ALAC) as well.

I'm not a MAC user by any means but I know a lot of stuff in this area tends to be multi-platform.

I want to be clear about this and please keep in mind that the digitization of any analog source is not a lossless process.  Vinyl is not lossless by it's very analog nature.  No analog format is lossless at all.  Lossless is strictly a digital domain only thing. that means the digital audio itself is unchanged either for transmission or storage  The editing and changing of audio itself is not lossless either.  Compression of digital audio can be either lossless or lossy.  Lossless doesn't have a quality, it strictly means that the digital audio itself remains unchanged or can be reconstructed back to it's original state before any change was made.  Your vinyl recording will always sound like vinyl and nothing else.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #8
I need to export in lossless so no more sound deteriorations are made.
Personally I would export as .wav and then convert that to the desired format afterwards.  If file size is not an issue, then sure, lossless if you want.  Just understand that any loss of quality due to using a lossy format will be totally insignificant compared with the loss of quality due to recording from vinyl.

Do you have any suggestions for the settings I should set in Audacity for the best rip?
There are no settings.  You'll see a microphone input level, all you need to do is make sure there is no clipping (the waveform display is always below max).  Hopefully your USB turntable has RIAA built in, if not you can apply it to the captured sample afterwards.

Once you have captured the sample, top and tail it and then save to .wav.  Then you can look at removing clicks and hiss and save it again (different filename).  By saving at each stage you can always go back to a previous point in the process.  Once you have your final version, save it as final.wav (or whatever) and convert that to final.flac (or whatever).

Most of what you want is on the Effects menu, and you have to select all (Ctrl+A) to define what section the effect is applied to.  If you don't know Audacity it's a learning curve, but there is plenty of reference material and it's useful to know if you do any audio manipulation at all.
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #9
What equipment do you have available for doing this?
Hello, thank you for your answer. I am using a Vinyl Player Audio Technica with USB for transfer.
Any good suggestion for MAC and the best configurations for best audio rip?
In all likelihood, your A-T turntable is fixed to 16/44 output so Audacity with default settings should work fine. Just keep your recording levels below 0 dB. Save your work as AIFF and when finished use iTunes or XLD to convert to Apple Lossless.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #10
In all likelihood, your A-T turntable is fixed to 16/44 output
16 it is, but with a choice between 48 and 44.1. At least that is the case for one of their current models (and not the most expensive) - I didn't check more.

so Audacity with default settings should work fine. Just keep your recording levels below 0 dB.

Yeah, digital clipping would be a disaster.
But A-T aren't amateurs, they must have set volume reasonably? They claim a S/N ratio of "> 50 dB", so there could be plenty of headroom when the output is 16 bits.
(If it were too loud, I guess there is nothing you could do about it without changing hardware - like, pick-up?)

Edit: Note, some of them offer Bluetooth. That will transcode to a lossy of varying quality (possibly SBC). I don't know if that will even be audible, but just don't. Plug it in for USB.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #11
Thanks for your answer. Do you have any suggestions for the settings I should set in Audacity for the best rip?

With Audacity as it's multi-track digital audio editing software, you can export a Wav file out of the box but you need the FFMPEG add-on to export to other formats: https://lame.buanzo.org/ffmpeg.php

FFMPEG is multi-platform and is it's own tool for encoding and decoding various digital formats both lossless and lossy and common and obscure formats and it has a MAC version as well: https://evermeet.cx/ffmpeg/

FLAC is multi-platform for compressing exported WAVs and AIFFs and is the most well known of lossless formats and has a MAC version: https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/flac

WavPack is multi-platform and has a MAC version and is similar to FLAC: https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/wavpack

Of course there's Apple Lossless (ALAC) as well.

I'm not a MAC user by any means but I know a lot of stuff in this area tends to be multi-platform.

I want to be clear about this and please keep in mind that the digitization of any analog source is not a lossless process.  Vinyl is not lossless by it's very analog nature.  No analog format is lossless at all.  Lossless is strictly a digital domain only thing. that means the digital audio itself is unchanged either for transmission or storage  The editing and changing of audio itself is not lossless either.  Compression of digital audio can be either lossless or lossy.  Lossless doesn't have a quality, it strictly means that the digital audio itself remains unchanged or can be reconstructed back to it's original state before any change was made.  Your vinyl recording will always sound like vinyl and nothing else.

Thanks for your answer. Yes, I am clear that Vinyl rips won't sound the same as digital rips. I was thinking of ripping it from Vinyl and later on trying to remaster the recording to have a better sounding experience.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #12
I need to export in lossless so no more sound deteriorations are made.
Personally I would export as .wav and then convert that to the desired format afterwards.  If file size is not an issue, then sure, lossless if you want.  Just understand that any loss of quality due to using a lossy format will be totally insignificant compared with the loss of quality due to recording from vinyl.

Do you have any suggestions for the settings I should set in Audacity for the best rip?
There are no settings.  You'll see a microphone input level, all you need to do is make sure there is no clipping (the waveform display is always below max).  Hopefully your USB turntable has RIAA built in, if not you can apply it to the captured sample afterwards.

Once you have captured the sample, top and tail it and then save to .wav.  Then you can look at removing clicks and hiss and save it again (different filename).  By saving at each stage you can always go back to a previous point in the process.  Once you have your final version, save it as final.wav (or whatever) and convert that to final.flac (or whatever).

Most of what you want is on the Effects menu, and you have to select all (Ctrl+A) to define what section the effect is applied to.  If you don't know Audacity it's a learning curve, but there is plenty of reference material and it's useful to know if you do any audio manipulation at all.

Thanks for your answer. Yes, I am planning to export in WAV format.

When I say settings, I was referring to Sample Rate & Bit Depth. Should I go 24/44 instead of default 16/44? I read somewhere that 24/44 would be better since it would reduce noise, but I am not 100% sure.

Also, are there any suggested settings under Preferences => Recording section? Furthermore, on Audacity => Preferences => Quality section there are 2 parts: Real-Time Conversion & High-Quality Conversion. Should I set any of those to Dither or should I set Dither as None?

Thank you for the feedback :)

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #13
What equipment do you have available for doing this?
Hello, thank you for your answer. I am using a Vinyl Player Audio Technica with USB for transfer.
Any good suggestion for MAC and the best configurations for best audio rip?
In all likelihood, your A-T turntable is fixed to 16/44 output so Audacity with default settings should work fine. Just keep your recording levels below 0 dB. Save your work as AIFF and when finished use iTunes or XLD to convert to Apple Lossless.

Thank you for the feedback, so you're suggesting to stay with 16/44 instead of 24/44? I read somewhere that 24/44 was suggested in order to reduce noise. What do you think? Also, after I record should I apply any noise removal or other effect or export it straightforward?


Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #14
In all likelihood, your A-T turntable is fixed to 16/44 output
16 it is, but with a choice between 48 and 44.1. At least that is the case for one of their current models (and not the most expensive) - I didn't check more.

so Audacity with default settings should work fine. Just keep your recording levels below 0 dB.

Yeah, digital clipping would be a disaster.
But A-T aren't amateurs, they must have set volume reasonably? They claim a S/N ratio of "> 50 dB", so there could be plenty of headroom when the output is 16 bits.
(If it were too loud, I guess there is nothing you could do about it without changing hardware - like, pick-up?)

Edit: Note, some of them offer Bluetooth. That will transcode to a lossy of varying quality (possibly SBC). I don't know if that will even be audible, but just don't. Plug it in for USB.

Thanks for the suggestions, yes I will use USB indeed. Do you suggest me to go 24/44 or 16/44? I read somewhere that 24/44 would be better to reduce noise and then convert it to 16/44.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #15
Also 1 more additional question: when ripping from Vinyl in STEREO, should I expect a difference between L & R channels, or since I am recording from analog to digital both channels should be very similar in terms of frequencies?

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #16
Also 1 more additional question: when ripping from Vinyl in STEREO, should I expect a difference between L & R channels, or since I am recording from analog to digital both channels should be very similar in terms of frequencies?

Left & Right will be similar but not equal. That's the thing with stereo (and sometimes multichannel), except if the channels are from significantly different sources. Is better to view waveform instead of spectrum to analyze the stereo. Analog/Digital conversion has nothing to do with that.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #17
Quote
and later on trying to remaster the recording to have a better sounding experience...

...should I apply any noise removal or other effect or export it straightforward?
There is special software for removing vinyl clicks & pops but I'm on Windows so I can't suggest anything.

Audacity has 4 tools ("effects"):

 - Regular Noise Reduction uses a "fingerprint" of noise-only and it's for reducing constant background noise (like bum or hiss).   If the noise is bad, "the cure can be worse than the disease" so you'll have to try it.

 - Click Removal is automatic.

 - Repair is manual.  You have to find and zoom-in on the defect.

 - You can also zoom-in and manually re-draw the waveform.

I find a lot of older records to be a bit "dull sounding" (rolled-off highs).    So, I'll often use a little EQ to boost the highs.

When you're done you can run the Amplify or Normalize effect to "maximize" for 0dB (or near 0dB) peaks.


Quote
When I say settings, I was referring to Sample Rate & Bit Depth...

 ...Do you suggest me to go 24/44 or 16/44?
We think the analog-to-digital converter in your turntable is 16-bits, and that's generally better than human hearing and way better than vinyl.   You don't magically improve quality by up-sampling.  It would be like copying DVD or VHS to Blu-Ray.

By default, Audacity converts everything to 32-bit floating point which is better/easier for processing.    You can export to whatever format you want.


Quote
...I read somewhere that 24/44 was suggested in order to reduce noise.
The "real noise" comes from the analog record.

There is something called quantization noise and it's worse at lower bit-depths.    But under normal listening conditions you can't hear it at 16-bits or higher.  You CAN hear it at 8-bits.


Quote
Should I set any of those to Dither or should I set Dither as None?
As a practical matter it won't make any difference. 

You're "supposed to dither" when you down-sample.    You're not down-sampling so you can set it to 'none".

Dither is added noise that's supposed to sound better than quantization noise, but you can't normally hear either one (at 16-bits or higher).    And you already have analog record noise that's worse so it's "self dithered" and it doesn't make sense to add a tiny-bit more noise.


Quote
I am planning to export in WAV format.
The possible downside to WAV is that metadata/tags (embedded album/artist/title/artwork, etc.) is not well-standardized for WAV.   All of the other popular formats are better for metadata.     If you want lossless, FLAC is lossless compression, it's better for metadata, and your files are almost half the size.   But of course, you player needs to support FLAC (not a problem if you are using a software player on your computer).    Apple ALAC is also lossless compression.


Quote
should I expect a difference between L & R channels, or since I am recording from analog to digital both channels should be very similar in terms of frequencies?
Yes, left & right are different.   Assuming music - Usually the main vocals (and the bass) are in the "phantom center" (identical in both channels).   The other sounds are panned left-to-right across the virtual soundstage to simulate/approximate the arrangement of the band/orchestra.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #18
I suggested WAV just for intermediate saves.  I expected metadata to be added when doing the final conversion to the target format, because obviously there will not be any metadata coming in from the vinyl!
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #19
I was thinking of ripping it from Vinyl and later on trying to remaster the recording to have a better sounding experience.
You'll never get a "better sounding experience" from vinyl.  Yes, you can hide the clicks and filter out the hiss and rumble, but ultimately you are limited by the transfer function from the master tape through pre-emphasis to the cutter to the press to the vinyl and then your stylus, cartridge, and de-emphasis.  It's only ever worth it if a CD copy or download is unobtainable.

Do you suggest me to go 24/44 or 16/44? I read somewhere that 24/44 would be better to reduce noise and then convert it to 16/44.
It's not going to make one spit of difference.  Just use whatever the USB sends you.  Any kind of resampling will reduce quality (in theory – although in practice you won't notice).

Also 1 more additional question: when ripping from Vinyl in STEREO, should I expect a difference between L & R channels, or since I am recording from analog to digital both channels should be very similar in terms of frequencies?
I fail to see any relevance to this.
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #20
Also 1 more additional question: when ripping from Vinyl in STEREO, should I expect a difference between L & R channels, or since I am recording from analog to digital both channels should be very similar in terms of frequencies?

Left & Right will be similar but not equal. That's the thing with stereo (and sometimes multichannel), except if the channels are from significantly different sources. Is better to view waveform instead of spectrum to analyze the stereo. Analog/Digital conversion has nothing to do with that.

Thank you for the feedback!

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #21
Quote
and later on trying to remaster the recording to have a better sounding experience...

...should I apply any noise removal or other effect or export it straightforward?
There is special software for removing vinyl clicks & pops but I'm on Windows so I can't suggest anything.

Audacity has 4 tools ("effects"):

 - Regular Noise Reduction uses a "fingerprint" of noise-only and it's for reducing constant background noise (like bum or hiss).   If the noise is bad, "the cure can be worse than the disease" so you'll have to try it.

 - Click Removal is automatic.

 - Repair is manual.  You have to find and zoom-in on the defect.

 - You can also zoom-in and manually re-draw the waveform.

I find a lot of older records to be a bit "dull sounding" (rolled-off highs).    So, I'll often use a little EQ to boost the highs.

When you're done you can run the Amplify or Normalize effect to "maximize" for 0dB (or near 0dB) peaks.


Quote
When I say settings, I was referring to Sample Rate & Bit Depth...

 ...Do you suggest me to go 24/44 or 16/44?
We think the analog-to-digital converter in your turntable is 16-bits, and that's generally better than human hearing and way better than vinyl.   You don't magically improve quality by up-sampling.  It would be like copying DVD or VHS to Blu-Ray.

By default, Audacity converts everything to 32-bit floating point which is better/easier for processing.    You can export to whatever format you want.


Quote
...I read somewhere that 24/44 was suggested in order to reduce noise.
The "real noise" comes from the analog record.

There is something called quantization noise and it's worse at lower bit-depths.    But under normal listening conditions you can't hear it at 16-bits or higher.  You CAN hear it at 8-bits.


Quote
Should I set any of those to Dither or should I set Dither as None?
As a practical matter it won't make any difference. 

You're "supposed to dither" when you down-sample.    You're not down-sampling so you can set it to 'none".

Dither is added noise that's supposed to sound better than quantization noise, but you can't normally hear either one (at 16-bits or higher).    And you already have analog record noise that's worse so it's "self dithered" and it doesn't make sense to add a tiny-bit more noise.


Quote
I am planning to export in WAV format.
The possible downside to WAV is that metadata/tags (embedded album/artist/title/artwork, etc.) is not well-standardized for WAV.   All of the other popular formats are better for metadata.     If you want lossless, FLAC is lossless compression, it's better for metadata, and your files are almost half the size.   But of course, you player needs to support FLAC (not a problem if you are using a software player on your computer).    Apple ALAC is also lossless compression.


Quote
should I expect a difference between L & R channels, or since I am recording from analog to digital both channels should be very similar in terms of frequencies?
Yes, left & right are different.   Assuming music - Usually the main vocals (and the bass) are in the "phantom center" (identical in both channels).   The other sounds are panned left-to-right across the virtual soundstage to simulate/approximate the arrangement of the band/orchestra.

Hey, thank you very much for the well detailed explained information :)
May you please tell me the name of the Vinyl Click Removal tool? Is it free or do I have to pay for it? I can install it in my friend's PC (which is Windows) and try to remove clicks.


Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #22
I was thinking of ripping it from Vinyl and later on trying to remaster the recording to have a better sounding experience.
You'll never get a "better sounding experience" from vinyl.  Yes, you can hide the clicks and filter out the hiss and rumble, but ultimately you are limited by the transfer function from the master tape through pre-emphasis to the cutter to the press to the vinyl and then your stylus, cartridge, and de-emphasis.  It's only ever worth it if a CD copy or download is unobtainable.

Do you suggest me to go 24/44 or 16/44? I read somewhere that 24/44 would be better to reduce noise and then convert it to 16/44.
It's not going to make one spit of difference.  Just use whatever the USB sends you.  Any kind of resampling will reduce quality (in theory – although in practice you won't notice).

Also 1 more additional question: when ripping from Vinyl in STEREO, should I expect a difference between L & R channels, or since I am recording from analog to digital both channels should be very similar in terms of frequencies?
I fail to see any relevance to this.

Thank you, the only reason I am doing this is because the song was exclusive to Vinyl only, that's why :/
Thanks for the information though :)

Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #23
Quote
May you please tell me the name of the Vinyl Click Removal tool? Is it free or do I have to pay for it? I can install it in my friend's PC (which is Windows) and try to remove clicks.
I have two.   Wave Corrector is FREE and fully automatic.   I don't have much experience with it because I digitized most of my vinyl (that wasn't available digitally) before I got it.

Wave Repair is $30 USD after a 30-day free trial and you shouldn't need it for longer than that.    It's manual so it can be VERY time consuming but with only one song that shouldn't be a big deal, especially if the record is in good condition.   That also means that it only "touches" the audio where you identify a defect.      It has a few different repair options/methods and it does an audibly perfect job on most (but not all) clicks & pops.   Ironically, it seems to work best on the really nasty clicks, maybe because they are easier to find in the waveform.   (There is also a spectral view which usually makes the defects stand-out visually better than trying to find them in the waveform.)


Re: Which is the best suggested tool to rip Vinyl in LOSSLESS quality

Reply #24
Quote
May you please tell me the name of the Vinyl Click Removal tool? Is it free or do I have to pay for it? I can install it in my friend's PC (which is Windows) and try to remove clicks.
I have two.   Wave Corrector is FREE and fully automatic.   I don't have much experience with it because I digitized most of my vinyl (that wasn't available digitally) before I got it.

Wave Repair is $30 USD after a 30-day free trial and you shouldn't need it for longer than that.    It's manual so it can be VERY time consuming but with only one song that shouldn't be a big deal, especially if the record is in good condition.   That also means that it only "touches" the audio where you identify a defect.      It has a few different repair options/methods and it does an audibly perfect job on most (but not all) clicks & pops.   Ironically, it seems to work best on the really nasty clicks, maybe because they are easier to find in the waveform.   (There is also a spectral view which usually makes the defects stand-out visually better than trying to find them in the waveform.)



Thank you for your feedback, I will see what I can do :)