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Topic: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit (Read 1202 times) previous topic - next topic
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Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

 ::) I use an Acer 32-bit notebook with a 1TB SSD attached for playing all my Hi-Rez (PCM and DSD) files and it was only when I decided to check for Foobar2000 updates and found version 2 this evening, which I've subsequently installed, that I struck this problem. PCM files still play without an issue but my DSD128 files, which played just fine in version 1.6.13, now start off OK but soon become stuttery and slow down slightly. I've checked the DSD and SACD settings and they all seem to be pretty similar to the ones in the previous version, so I'm not sure what to do next. The latest version of Win10 32-bit (22H2) is installed on the notebook.  Many thanks for any help offered.

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #1
You should check for updated versions of whatever component(s) you're using to play your DSD files. I don't use them so I have no idea where to get them but if you can't figure it out, I'm sure someone else will post at some point

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #2
 ::) Thanks for your suggestion, but that was one of the first things I tried. However, there was one interesting discovery that I'm rather confused about and I probably should have mentioned it before. In the 'components' list in version 1.6.13 there is a Binary Comparator, with a module name of foo_bitcompare, and when I updated to version 2, I was informed that the file was obsolete and should be removed, so I went ahead and deleted it. I subsequently did a "Check for updated components' (in Help) and was informed that 'No updates are available at this time', which I assume means everything was as it should be.

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #3
You'll need to find and update the DSD component manually. It's not on the official repo so checking for updates within the program won't do it.

edit; I guess it's one or more of these...

https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #4
I don't know what format of file your DSD's are, but I can play SACD ISO and derived DFF and DSF files just fine after upgrading the SACD component from the above link.

If you play DVDA ISO's as well you'll need to upgrade that plugin as well.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dvdadecoder/files/latest/download

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #5
Well, I visited SourceForge and downloaded the latest version of foo_input_sacd (1.5.4), unzipped it to produce the component files for input_sacd and dsd_processor and updated the corresponding modules in the components section of fb2K from 1.1.5 for the processor to 1.2.1 and, as mentioned, input_sacd from 1.4.2 to 1.5.4. Both installed successfully. As soon as I played one of my DSD128 albums I knew the problem hadn't been solved. The data that moves along the bottom of the notebook screen when playing any files should be smooth in its motion, but this was jerky right from the start as it had been when the problem first began and the sound soon started resuming its stutter. Sorry, guys. I was obviously hoping for success, but thanks for your suggestion. The files I'm playing are native DSD files - all DSD 128 - downloaded from NativeDSD Music. Where to now, I wonder?

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #6
Well, I visited SourceForge and downloaded the latest version of foo_input_sacd (1.5.4), unzipped it to produce the component files for input_sacd and dsd_processor and updated the corresponding modules in the components section of fb2K from 1.1.5 for the processor to 1.2.1 and, as mentioned, input_sacd from 1.4.2 to 1.5.4. Both installed successfully. As soon as I played one of my DSD128 albums I knew the problem hadn't been solved. The data that moves along the bottom of the notebook screen when playing any files should be smooth in its motion, but this was jerky right from the start as it had been when the problem first began and the sound soon started resuming its stutter. Sorry, guys. I was obviously hoping for success, but thanks for your suggestion. The files I'm playing are native DSD files - all DSD 128 - downloaded from NativeDSD Music. Where to now, I wonder?

I downloaded some DSD128 files. Files play without stuttering and are received at my Marantz in 192kHz 24bit PCM as configured in foobar with output in exclusive mode. Marantz should be able to receive DSD as well, but I have no clue how to configure that.

Running the most current 2.1 preview,

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #7
1set: DSD compatible DAC ASIO Driver + foo_input_sacd 1.5.x + ASIO+DSD support 0.3.x (foo_out_asio+dsd) Native playback

ASIO+DSD support (foo_out_asio+dsd) - foo_out_asio+dsd-0.3.6.zip
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_out_asio%2Bdsd/

---------
Super Audio CD Decoder
1.) Preferrences > Tools > SACD > Output (per device) > Type > DSD

ASIO+DSD support
2.) Preferences > Playback > Output: ASIO+DSD DAC ASIO Driver
for example
Output: ASIO+DSD: Denon XM ASIO Device

Do not use DSP (Active DSPs → None)

If you play with this and feel that the sound is small, please check 1.) again
--------
Since it is a highly dependent Component, it is compatible with DAC (ASIO Driver, etc.)
DACs that is said to be compatible:
DENON, FiiO, RAL, iFi, TEAC, Audinst, xDuoo ...

DACs that are said to be incompatible:
Marantz
SHURE SRH1840, SENNHEISER HD660S, Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, HIFIMAN HE5se, Ultrasone Performance 880, AKG K712 PRO, SONY MDR-1AM2, Bowers & Wilkins P7 Mobile Hi-Fi, Bose QuietComfort 45, SONY WH-1000XM3 (made a Upgrade/Balanced Cable by myself) Shall I write more?

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #8
JohnMarch, how is the CPU usage when you play these DSD files? Also how many CPU cores does your machine have?
If CPU use is high, would be interesting to know how it was with the old foobar2000 v1.x version.

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #9
I decided to check for Foobar2000 updates and found version 2 this evening, which I've subsequently installed, that I struck this problem.

Did you install 2.0 over top of 1.6? If so maybe older components are interfering, what other components are installed? I would suggest, just as a test, make a fresh portable install of 2.0 into a new folder and just add the SACD component. Then try an output device with the [exclusive] label (WASAPI Exclusive) which plays native DSD fine for me, otherwise can try the ASIO output component mentioned above.

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #10
If using ASIO, try increasing latency from the ASIO driver settings (50ms, 100ms).
Foobar preferences > Advanced > Playback, tick Exclusive output overrides, untick Use event.
Advanced > Playback > Buffering, try increasing those buffers.

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #11
Firstly, thanks to everyone for your various suggestions. They were much appreciated. The result is that it now plays reasonably well for about half a minute and then it bursts into a loud hum/buzz and remains like that until stopped  PCM files still play properly, as expected. Air KEN: I downloaded foo_out_asio+dsd and installed that into Components  (The DAC I am using is an iFi NEO iDSD (I have other iFi models too, but that's the best one) and it has never given me any trouble before). That created a new output, showing as ASIO+DSD : iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio. I have noted that the previously used ASIO : iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio is still an available option in the output list. I have since tried that and it's not working as well as it did originally (which isn't saying much as it was bad before). Case: the CPU usage (using Task Manager in Windows 10) seems to be between around 30 to 35 percent. That seems high to me, but as I have very few other apps on the computer, it will one of the few actually running so maybe that's normal. I'm not sure. Anamorphic: I've really got all the latest components installed in FB2k 2.0 now so I doubt older components are a problem any more. Gus: I tried your suggestions but they didn't make any difference.

If I don't have any success soon, I'm seriously thinking of going back to the earlier version that ran properly. As I am using that version on my Win10 desktop, I can always compare the two to make sure  all the settings are correct. My only real concern about doing that is the possibility of losing my library, and its a pretty big one now. If  I uninstall FB2K 2.0 and reinstall the older version, will my library still be intact? Finally I  have to say that the DSD128 file that I was testing and which sounded normal for the short  time it lasted did sound absolutely stunning, so it will be a shame if I'm forced to go backwards.

John Marchington

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #12
Please try.

・Super Audio CD Decoder 1.2.7 (foo_input_sacd.dll)
foo_input_sacd-1.2.7.zip (2021-01-17)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_input_sacd/
Preferences > Playback > Tool > SACD > Output Mode: DSD+PCM

・dsd_transcoder (DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native))
DSDTranscoderInstall-1.2.0.zip (2022-10-03)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/dsd_transcoder/

Preferences > Playback > Output > ASIO > ASIO drivers > DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) Double click
> ASIO Device: iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio Select
DSD64: DSD
DSD128: DSD
・foobar2000 Output: ASIO: DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) Select

------
or
ASIO+DSD support (foo_out_asio+dsd.dll)
Preferences > Playback > Output > ASIO+DSD > DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) Double click
> ASIO Device: iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio Select
・foobar2000 Output: ASIO+DSD: DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) Select
SHURE SRH1840, SENNHEISER HD660S, Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, HIFIMAN HE5se, Ultrasone Performance 880, AKG K712 PRO, SONY MDR-1AM2, Bowers & Wilkins P7 Mobile Hi-Fi, Bose QuietComfort 45, SONY WH-1000XM3 (made a Upgrade/Balanced Cable by myself) Shall I write more?

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #13
Thank you, Air KEN, for your continual assistance and further suggestions. The first part of your most recent message involving earlier versions of foo_dsd_processor,fg2k-component and foo_input_sacd.fb2k-component were successfully installed but I'm having trouble with the DSD transcoder section. I quickly realised after unZIPping DSDTranscoderInstall-1.2.0.zip that it contained an executable file,so I ran that but didn't look at 'Details' after it had finished. When I then went through the various folders you specified  I didn't find a DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) anywhere and double-clicking what I did find resulted in just 44100 being seen. No DSD64 or DSD128. So I ran the executable again and this time looked at the 'Details" and discovered the message 'Could not load C:\Program Files\DSDTranscoder\dsd_transcoder.dll. I then checked that filepath and the dll is definitely where it should be. However, I have no idea why it wouldn't load.

Have I missed something? Thanks

John Marchington 

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #14
It's not going well.  :(

64bit standard installation destination:
C:\Program Files (x86)\DSDTranscoder (32bit (probably): C:\Program Files\DSDTranscoder)


Let's uninstall once. Delete the install folder.
And try reinstalling.

or
DSDTranscoderInstall-1.1.5.zip (2021-01-15)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/dsd_transcoder/
--------
I have one more piece of advice.
It is better to remove the USB on the DAC side once, such as KORG USB DAC and iFi DAC.
--------
You may also want to consider reinstalling the driver
SHURE SRH1840, SENNHEISER HD660S, Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, HIFIMAN HE5se, Ultrasone Performance 880, AKG K712 PRO, SONY MDR-1AM2, Bowers & Wilkins P7 Mobile Hi-Fi, Bose QuietComfort 45, SONY WH-1000XM3 (made a Upgrade/Balanced Cable by myself) Shall I write more?

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #15
Hello, Air KEN. I've just received you latest advice and I just want to make sure we are on the same page, as I noticed mention of 64-bit
although I assume you are aware that I only have a 32-bit system.
I presume that when you suggest uninstalling, and reinstalling, you are referring to just the Transcoder section NOT the version 2.0 of fb2K itself? It's starting to become very confusing and my old brain (I'm in my 80s) is not what it used to be.

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #16
Hello Air-KEN. Comparing the files you listed at the start of your message, all must be well because the files in the DSDTranscoder folder are the first, second and last on your list; that is, the two x64 files are missing - as to be expected. The main folder is Program Files and not Program Files (x86). Perhaps that's what you were referring to. My question now is: what does the dsd_transcoder_ctl.exe file do and should I have run it? Would running that load the dll file? This is now all totally uncharted territory for me. Thanks.

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #17
32bit, so that's OK.
DSD Transcoder: supports native DSD playback through ASIO driver
Run from foobar.

Please try.

DSDTranscoderInstall-1.1.5.zip (2021-01-15)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/dsd_transcoder/

Preferences > Playback > Output > ASIO > ASIO drivers > DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) Double click
> ASIO Device: iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio Select
DSD64: DSD
DSD128: DSD
・foobar2000 Output: ASIO: DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) Select

----------
Until now, never used "ASIO+DSD support" and "DSDTranscoder", doesn't seem to have been "native DSD playback".

the best ideal:
Reply #7 https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,124270.msg1028498.html#msg1028498
SHURE SRH1840, SENNHEISER HD660S, Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, HIFIMAN HE5se, Ultrasone Performance 880, AKG K712 PRO, SONY MDR-1AM2, Bowers & Wilkins P7 Mobile Hi-Fi, Bose QuietComfort 45, SONY WH-1000XM3 (made a Upgrade/Balanced Cable by myself) Shall I write more?

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #18
HI again, Air KEN. The result was exactly the same as with the version 1.2.0 of the DSDTranscoder file. As before, the *.dll file is not loading and I see no sign of a DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native) extension in the ASIO drivers section of the output playback. All I see in the ASIO drivers is iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio. I think we're both wasting out time and I'd be better going back to the earlier version of fb2k. Why my system is behaving as it is is a complete mystery, I'm afraid. Out of curiosity, I did click on the 1.1.5. version of the dsd_transcoder_ctl.exe file and noted it contained a rabge of DSD amd DoP resolutions

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #19
finally back to basics.
It is better to remove the USB on the DAC side once, such as USB iFi DAC.

foo_input_sacd-1.4.13.zip (2022-06-20)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_input_sacd/

foo_out_asio+dsd-0.2.2.zip (2022-09-14)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_out_asio%2Bdsd/

Super Audio CD Decoder
1.) Preferrences > Tools > SACD > Output (per device) > Type > DSD+PCM 192000 ← Change


ASIO+DSD support
2.) Preferences > Playback > Output: ASIO+DSD DAC ASIO Driver
for example
Output: ASIO+DSD: iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio

Do not use DSP (Active DSPs → None)

If you play with this and feel that the sound is small, please check 1.) again.

----------

My iFi Audio ZEN DAC and nano iDSD also works with this setup (DSD 128).

SHURE SRH1840, SENNHEISER HD660S, Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, HIFIMAN HE5se, Ultrasone Performance 880, AKG K712 PRO, SONY MDR-1AM2, Bowers & Wilkins P7 Mobile Hi-Fi, Bose QuietComfort 45, SONY WH-1000XM3 (made a Upgrade/Balanced Cable by myself) Shall I write more?

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #20
Hello again, Air KEN. One thing this problem has done for me is to help me get some understanding of the integration of the various sections of fb2k and that, in part, has been due to your introducing the ASIO+DSD component that I was never aware of before. I have been experimenting with that on my 64-bit quad-core desktop - which has  Vrsn 1.6.13 fb2k installed - and for the very first time I have seen 5644800Hz displayed at the bottom left of the program when playing a DSD128 file. Prior to that, I was seeing a PCM frequency (see comment later), even though I could hear a DSD file playing - but it obviously wouldn't have been in 'native' format.. The only problem is that the Realtek DAC in my desktop computer does not support native DSD files, so with the DSD frequency set to the 'native' frequency, I hear nothing and receive a message informing me that there is an "Unrecoverable playback error - Sample rate of 5644800 Hz not supported by this device". I have to set the Tools>SACD >Output (per device) to PCM (frequency selected seems unimportant) to be able to hear DSD files on the desktop and they play fine on it, although I suspect the output might be a sort of modified PCM.
I realise the above has little to do with the the problem at hand that is associated with a totally different system, but there may be some sort of connection to be discussed shortly, and so I thought it was worth mentioning. I have installed the various components you specified in your most recent message - I even went to the trouble of removing the components that were to be replaced before installing the new ones, something I hadn't done before - and I set up the Tools > SACD > Output (per device) as requested (to DSD). The ASIO+DSD Support was also set up as requested, and the Active DSDs area was empty. The result when playing a DSD128 file now on that system is a chopped-up sound, breaking up, and I am beginning to think that my notebook hardware might not be up to the task. The notebook I am using (with an SSD attached for file storage) is an Acer Aspire One containing an Intel Atom CPU N270, running at 1.6GHz, with only 2GB of RAM fitted. I am now wondering if fb2k version 2.0 might be making bigger demands on the computer than the previous version (1.6.13) I have been using and hence causing the current playback issues.. Your comments in this regard would be most welcome. The notebook computer is running Windows 10 Pro 22H2 32-bit operating system.
I've just wondered if I might have mistakenly installed the 64-bit version of fb2k? v2.0 on that system - but, no I haven't. I see x86 in brackets in the 'About'. I guess fb2k checks the system first when doing an update anyway.

Many thanks.
John Marchington

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #21
I asked about your CPU usage and comparison against the old version's CPU usage because the issue sounded like a performance problem.
30-35 % CPU usage on a single core machine with virtual two cores thanks to hyper threading is a lot.
If you must play DSD files, I recommend configuring the SACD decoder to produce only DSD stream. Resampling the bitstream to PCM requires a lot of processing. Playing it as-is should leave all the hard work for your DAC.

Another option you could try if using PCM output is to increase the output buffer size.

For reference at least on a modern machine foobar2000 v2.0 is more efficient. I played a 5 minutes 45 seconds long DSD test track with foobar2000 v1.6.13 and foobar2000 v2.0 with otherwise identical settings and same foo_input_sacd-1.5.4 installed and the older version had both higher kernel time and higher user time as reported by Process Explorer. On my machine foobar2000 v1.6.13 needed almost 1 second of processing power in total to play the track with resampling to PCM, foobar2000 v2.0 required half a second. CPU usage here when playing is at 0.01% tops.

Re: Shaky/unsteady output playing DSD128 files with FB2k version 2.0 32 bit

Reply #22
The issue was a performance problem and I've effectively solved it now. I have another better audio system which contains a much newer and higher spec - and considerably larger -  laptop and I decided to bring that one 'up to date' by updating the 1.6.12 version of fb2k on it to version 2.0 and seeing what happened when I connected it up to my second sound system to replace the notebook. The worst part has been that, despite asking for all the settings, library etc to be retained, I ended up losing everything, but I've been able to set it up again so I suppose I've learned something during the last few days of frustration. The system with the laptop in service is now going again playing both PCM and DSD files correctly and I have also set up the fb2k display as I want it (I lost all that, too). I now, however, have most of the library to set up again, which is a pity.

I am definitely going to buy a new laptop or notebook (I'd prefer the latter because its smaller and I don't have a lot of room but they seem to be scarcer than laptops) and I should be fine after that.

Thanks again for everybody who offered suggestions.