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McGill U MQA study

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19396

A Comparison of Clarity in MQA Encoded Files vs. Their Unprocessed State as Performed by Three Groups — Expert Listeners

Quote
Conclusion and Future Work
From the data collected, it is shown that it may be possible to discriminate between the two formats, but a generalization for clarity ratings was not possible within the circumstances of the experiment.

Basically a wash. Might ask authors if one of the MQA encoded FLAC 30s excerpts can be made available for analysis.

cheers.

AJ
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #1
Ain't it dead yet?
I thought even the slower ones realized all this crap is about encrypting the well known PCM at a maximum of 17bit/96kHz in a patentable and licencable way.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #2
This thing just won't die (...yet).
http://www.audioxpress.com/news/sabre-dacs-from-ess-technology-to-integrate-mqa-rendering
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/feature/Worlds_First_HiRes_CD_by_Universal_Music_Japan

For hardware makers it's the new tick box to check in their marketing materials. For music labels, another excuse to re-re-re-issue old CDs at a high premium for all audophiles to purchase the same music yet again. And since it seems Universal Music is on board... a way to deliver more of their watermarked sound.

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #3
This thing just won't die (...yet).
http://www.audioxpress.com/news/sabre-dacs-from-ess-technology-to-integrate-mqa-rendering
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/feature/Worlds_First_HiRes_CD_by_Universal_Music_Japan

For hardware makers it's the new tick box to check in their marketing materials. For music labels, another excuse to re-re-re-issue old CDs at a high premium for all audophiles to purchase the same music yet again. And since it seems Universal Music is on board... a way to deliver more of their watermarked sound.
Alright, so we need to somehow spread the knowledge among non-technical people so that they know that it's bullshit and won't buy it.


Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #5
MQA is a pure marketing. As it is just differently encoded 24bit PCM, it can never be any better than 24bit PCM. There's not a bit of additional resolution.

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #6
This thing just won't die (...yet).
http://www.audioxpress.com/news/sabre-dacs-from-ess-technology-to-integrate-mqa-rendering
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/feature/Worlds_First_HiRes_CD_by_Universal_Music_Japan

For hardware makers it's the new tick box to check in their marketing materials. For music labels, another excuse to re-re-re-issue old CDs at a high premium for all audophiles to purchase the same music yet again. And since it seems Universal Music is on board... a way to deliver more of their watermarked sound.

i would not take audioxpress.com too seriously. A quote from another page on there website is "how far we have evolved from the dreaded MP3 (MPEG-1 Audio Layer III), now officially discontinued." http://www.audioxpress.com/article/show-report-notes-from-the-aes-milan-convention ::)

Is this FAKE news?

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #7
Alright, so we need to somehow spread the knowledge among non-technical people so that they know that it's bullshit and won't buy it.
Aren't you assuming that anyone who's interested in placebophilia would actually be interested in being disillusioned?  ;~)

Personally, I suspect the reason stuff like this exists is because some people need it. Obviously it's not meant for those in the know, so to speak.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #8
Need?!?
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #9
i would not take audioxpress.com too seriously. A quote from another page on there website is "how far we have evolved from the dreaded MP3 (MPEG-1 Audio Layer III), now officially discontinued." http://www.audioxpress.com/article/show-report-notes-from-the-aes-milan-convention ::)

Is this FAKE news?
A google search gives more results than one page. https://www.avsforum.com/mqa-news-from-munich-high-end-2018/
"For Munich 2018, MQA has announced new hardware and software partners [...]"
"The company has announced new hardware partnerships with Hegel Music System and Lyngdorf Audio. Hegel will unveil its new H590 amplifier at the show. Furthermore, MQA’s partnership with LG will continue, the G7 ThinQ handset will have decoding built in. Plus, ESS technology announced that it’s bringing decoding and rendering to its SABRE mobile DACs."

Need?!?
There is a market for this kind of thing. Nobody needs it, but some people want it. It's the new shiny toy, it's marketed as the best thing ever, as always. So someone might decide to give it a try... then confirmation bias will just make it sound great for them.

Alright, so we need to somehow spread the knowledge among non-technical people so that they know that it's bullshit and won't buy it.
Non-technical people are not the problem at all. Most consumers are happy with spotify, youtube, itunes and maybe a CD purchase every once in a while. This will go the SACD way, let some time pass and only a few people will still be interested. These are the same people you can't convince with rational arguments. They will insist it sounds better as they recite the miracle properties of their format of choice, just as if they were a sales rep reading the marketing material.

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #10
There is a market for this kind of thing. Nobody needs it, but some people want it.
I used the word need deliberately as in some people "need" new pseudo-formats in order to make or spend money, look important, be special, etc. From my perspective, there's more to this issue than just audio engineering, there's also psychology.

Looking at the lengths that people have gone to in regards to MQA, clearly it's some kind of a "need".
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #11
Need?!?
Sure. Stereophiles are desperate for help with their archaic systems. Anything helps, even some aliasing distortion w/EQ (remember an actual EQ is taboo). Let's not forget one of digitals many issues is "sterility". Plus when one is addicted to scams and parched for another...yep, need.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #12
Like Ativan, in other words.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #13
PS: shouldn't this discussion be in the "Other Lossy Codecs" sub-forum?

;)
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?


Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #15
Extended inaudible frequency response at the expense of potentially audible dynamic range.  HDCD was a much better gimmick.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #16
PS: shouldn't this discussion be in the "Other Lossy Codecs" sub-forum?
;)
Yeah was a bit stumped on this one. Technically, it's a Listening Test (McGill study), of a Lossy Codec that involves Scientific Discussion. Figured what the heck, General Discussion it is. McGill promises more in future.
Meanwhile if Tidal folds, can't see this sham surviving.                
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #17
Oh, just poking fun over the irony.  Listening tests would probably be the best place.  My days of being a tight ass over these things are long gone.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #18
Techmoan (ytube) recently uploaded a video showing this aberration. And he liked it... Because a faulty decoder kept turning off and the MQA decoded part sounded better. But I think he realized the undecoded part was not actually 16bit resolution, from the comments.

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #19
... My days of being a tight ass over these things are long gone.

Indeed. Loss of muscle tone is one of the unfortunate effects of advancing age. 
Regards,
   Don Hills
"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #20
MQA has announced that some CD releases will use the technology.

There are already, since last year: https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-encoded-cds-yes

There is even a recording that was Grammy-nominated for its surround version (engineer Lindberg has a kind of "Grammy record" ...) released on hybrid SACD/CD-in-MQA.
Which kinda puts a perspective: the Big Thing about these productions is acoustic multi-microphone recordings for multichannel playback. Of course you can choose a few two-channel formats instead, like LP ("audiophile-grade vinyl", of course) and MQA and various FLACs. 2L/Lindberg do offer quite a variety of formats for download. Official webshop here (Norwegian language, but you see the formats): https://shop.klicktrack.com/2l/411252

Memento: this is Hydrogenaudio. Do not assume good faith.

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #21
PS: shouldn't this discussion be in the "Other Lossy Codecs" sub-forum?

;)

On a serous note (though I second your smiley): lossiness of end-user formats is kind of a different thing: going from a 24-bit or 32-bit workstation file to CD is lossy (it is even "lossy" in the 16th bit if dithered), and if someone creates a format that is "lossy but contains 44.1/16 losslessly", is it then a "lossy" format if put on CD?
Memento: this is Hydrogenaudio. Do not assume good faith.

Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #22
MQA has announced that some CD releases will use the technology.

There are already, since last year: https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-encoded-cds-yes


I saw that that article a few weeks ago. Well I got as far as "the sound quality is slightly better than a typical CD, because the audio is already de-blurred in the studio" then I give up.

I really must stop reading Stereophile articles.



Re: McGill U MQA study

Reply #24
By the way, Lindberg/2L offer a "test bench" selection of 20 tracks for free download in various formats, including MQA stereo:
http://www.2l.no/hires/

The entire selection is 25.72 GiB for 143 files, it seems. Edit: more! http://www.lindberg.no/hires/test/
For 20 tracks (counting that "A" and "R" as one track) of up to 10 formats.

https://shop.klicktrack.com/2l/411252

I say some of them must be very large file sizes.

5.1 DSD at 2.8 MHz? Sure. Jan Gunnar Hoff: "Stille lys - Quiet Light" (2L-109) is 36 times the CDDA flac.
Memento: this is Hydrogenaudio. Do not assume good faith.

 
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