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  • mmrkaic
  • [*][*]
Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Dear colleagues, I just want to thank everyone here and in particular those who started this site. I am an newcomer to audio. I was introduced to audio by a subjectivist without knowing what to expect out there.

I wandered around on different sites and wondered if I was crazy or what. I have a scientific background (masters in Physics and PhD in economics) and like to see things through math and data. Some posts on other audio sites drove me insane. I still can't believe that such insanity can exist (e.g. belief in directional cables or even teleportation). I was also disappointed that some audio sites have such strong anti-science bias that they censor things posts that do not adhere to their agenda.

Anyhow, thank you for restoring my sanity. I'm here to learn and contribute as much as I can.

Best,

MM

  • eahm
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Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #1
Same here, I'm only thankful to this forum and to the great contributors, I learned and still learning so much here.

"What do you do to relax, to clear your mind?" "I enjoy hydrogenaudio".

  • bennetng
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Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #2
I have a scientific background... I was also disappointed that some audio sites have such strong anti-science bias that they censor things posts that do not adhere to their agenda.
Members in other audio sites criticize us in the same way as well. :P

  • andy o
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #3
good lord, has teleportation (I presume of the "quantum" variety, because of course) made its way to audio quackery now?

  • ajinfla
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #4
good lord, has teleportation (I presume of the "quantum" variety, because of course) made its way to audio quackery now?
Ummm, believers have been enjoying that for at least a decade...http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #5
I have a scientific background... I was also disappointed that some audio sites have such strong anti-science bias that they censor things posts that do not adhere to their agenda.
Members in other audio sites criticize us in the same way as well. :P

For fun in that vein, some of us are tarrying a bit at ASR - Audio Science Review. JJ and I finally got approved, and joined a few other HA regulars. JJ is having way too much fun with the host in a thread entitled: "Can You Trust Your Ears? By Tom Nousaine"  of course Tom's  is now regrettably more accurately preceeded wit the phrase "The Late" but don't try to keep golden ears from attacking the dead!  One thing for sure - they'll never take flack from Tom again.

  • bennetng
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #6
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/can-you-trust-your-ears-by-tom-nousaine.1669/page-14#post-53590

Amir should visit HA and read the forum posts more frequently and carefully.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,114791.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112572.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,39970.0.html

...and much more, in the Listening Tests forum and all subforums of each lossy codecs.

ABC/HR for rating nontransparent samples according to their annoying level, ABX for identifying killer samples at high bitrates isn't it?

  • ajinfla
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #7
Amir should visit HA and read the forum posts more frequently and carefully.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,114791.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112572.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,39970.0.html

...and much more, in the Listening Tests forum and all subforums of each lossy codecs.
You may not be aware, but while at MS, along with the codevelopment of Bluescreen, Amir also developed a novel listening test method that circumvented many issues with ABX and ABC/HR etc. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/1136745-establishing-differences-10-volume-method.html#post16216826.
No tedious level matching and dreaded excessive cognitive load...of BS fame, as described in his "Typical Filters not found anywhere" AES paper. I think Amir views ABX et al as rivals.
He gives an example of why ABX, level matching, etc. are not mandatory here http://www.madronadigital.com/mark-levinson-53, as they were not necessary to hear how much better $50k Class Bling amps were at  LF  vs AB amps.

cheers,

AJ

Loudspeaker manufacturer

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #8
Please let's not encourage that intellectually dishonest POS to post here again.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

  • ajinfla
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #9
What about secret peddler Jakob "I'm very very concerned about blind tests" 1863? He cool?
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #10
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/can-you-trust-your-ears-by-tom-nousaine.1669/page-14#post-53590

Amir should visit HA and read the forum posts more frequently and carefully.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,114791.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112572.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,39970.0.html

...and much more, in the Listening Tests forum and all subforums of each lossy codecs.

ABC/HR for rating nontransparent samples according to their annoying level, ABX for identifying killer samples at high bitrates isn't it?


Yes. JJ had to straighten him out. I could have done it, but Amir has a lot of anger against me to work off, it seems. Having been there and done that and washed the T-shirt, I didn't even try this time.

Of course, I have to cut Amir some slack. At no large company I ever worked for (IBM, GM etc) were people at the VP level cognizant of that level of detail for the processes that even fairly high-ranking professional workers used to do their jobs, unless perhaps they were promoted from there. And due to the differences between general business interests and technical interests, it was pretty rare that really good techs ended up in the executive suite. It happened, but so do solar eclipses. ;-)

Trouble is, Amir pretended to be a competent tech.

I'm still surprised that JJ worked for Amir so long, and yet when he first showed up on AVS he was hopelessly lost in golden ear dogma.  I was able to cut back on the hopelessness a bit, but did not get the time to finish the job by far. He also has quite a grudge against HA.

Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #11
Amir should visit HA and read the forum posts more frequently and carefully.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,114791.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112572.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,39970.0.html

...and much more, in the Listening Tests forum and all subforums of each lossy codecs.
You may not be aware, but while at MS, along with the codevelopment of Bluescreen, Amir also developed a novel listening test method that circumvented many issues with ABX and ABC/HR etc. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/1136745-establishing-differences-10-volume-method.html#post16216826.
No tedious level matching and dreaded excessive cognitive load...of BS fame, as described in his "Typical Filters not found anywhere" AES paper. I think Amir views ABX et al as rivals.
He gives an example of why ABX, level matching, etc. are not mandatory here http://www.madronadigital.com/mark-levinson-53, as they were not necessary to hear how much better $50k Class Bling amps were at  LF  vs AB amps.

Ohhhh, that's painful!    But obviously quite factual.

On balance, much later I got him to do some real ABX testing related to one of his favorite hobby-horses, jitter.

I've come up with a tool for explaining to audiophiles why their preferred listening evaluations are trash. Please see the attached graphic.

Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #12
What about secret peddler Jakob "I'm very very concerned about blind tests" 1863? He cool?


Here is some recent work of his:

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/can-you-trust-your-ears-by-tom-nousaine.1669/page-18

  • Nichttaub
  • [*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #13
I have a scientific background... I was also disappointed that some audio sites have such strong anti-science bias that they censor things posts that do not adhere to their agenda.
Members in other audio sites criticize us in the same way as well. :P


As far as I can tell, this site doesn't censor except in extreme cases - it just confronts the authors with their own BS.  Sometimes that's like watching a 2-year-old being made to eat something he said he likes but really doesn't.

Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #14
I honestly think that, for every time an audiophool is peed off at this great haven of scientific method that HA has become, then we can be sure we're in the right direction and should rejoice in the simple fact we're getting in their way of spreading their venomous half truths and subjectiveness as if there were no tomorrow.

I'd risk saying they're even jealous of how quickly we deal with misinformation and hearsay through epistemology instead of  censorship. The same, I'm afraid, cannot be said about their usually chaotic cases of "the blind leading the blind" towards even more "blindness".
Listen to the music, not the media.

  • Nichttaub
  • [*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #15
Yes, confronting them with facts and logic often results in snide dismissal, but never logic in return.  I was sad though not entirely surprised that a recent thread at diyAudio (started to make fun of the most outrageous audiophoolery) quickly engaged some quacks who continue to tout their craziness in the midst of the sanity.  I guess I'm late to the party on this, but when you see someone as well known as John Curl espousing demagnetization of vinyl LPs you have to wonder about the mental health of some of these people.  JC has at least contributed some respected designs to the pool of audio circuitry, but I hadn't been aware that he drifted so far into the world of woo.  It certainly taints any self-evaluation he has done of his electronics.

  • ajinfla
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #16
you have to wonder about the mental health of some of these people.  JC has at least contributed some respected designs to the pool of audio circuitry, but I hadn't been aware that he drifted so far into the world of woo.
He's a believer and has always been a fierce defender of charlatanry http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the-lounge/156700-jack-bybee-naq-questions.html
A "luminary" like BS...to some.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

  • bennetng
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #17
You may not be aware, but while at MS, along with the codevelopment of Bluescreen, Amir also developed a novel listening test method that circumvented many issues with ABX and ABC/HR etc. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/1136745-establishing-differences-10-volume-method.html#post16216826.
No tedious level matching and dreaded excessive cognitive load...of BS fame, as described in his "Typical Filters not found anywhere" AES paper.
MS has some excellent filters bundled with Windows, but that so-called "hotfix" disabled it.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,86676.msg788904.html#msg788904
  • Last Edit: 30 October, 2017, 01:35:26 PM by bennetng

  • ajinfla
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #18
MS has some excellent filters bundled with Windows, but that so-called "hotfix" disabled it.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,86676.msg788904.html#msg788904
Perhaps we need to MQA my post, as to deblur it.
Two separate things going there. The "Typical filters" reference was not to MS, but BS https://secure.aes.org/forum/pubs/conventions/?ID=416
Buried within it, he catered to yet another believer bogeyman, the "problems" of ABX testing (albeit a totally archaic version, not that believers would have caught the difference). Replete with nonsense about "cognitive load" (later backtracked in Comments section).
It's a common tune among Pied Pipers. The mice love it.
  • Last Edit: 30 October, 2017, 02:05:19 PM by ajinfla
Loudspeaker manufacturer

  • bennetng
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #19
Yeah I posted in a related thread as well:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112204.msg927525.html#msg927525

But not another locked thread.

I just wanted to vent my frustration about that highly aliased MS resampler since I have some software use the Windows MME API (e.g. Adobe Audition 1.5) and affected by that bug. MS took so many years to release a hotfix.

  • krabapple
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #20
you have to wonder about the mental health of some of these people.  JC has at least contributed some respected designs to the pool of audio circuitry, but I hadn't been aware that he drifted so far into the world of woo.
He's a believer and has always been a fierce defender of charlatanry http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the-lounge/156700-jack-bybee-naq-questions.html
A "luminary" like BS...to some.


Quite.  Peter Aczel was already chastizing Curl back in the Audio Critic days , decades ago.

Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #21
you have to wonder about the mental health of some of these people.  JC has at least contributed some respected designs to the pool of audio circuitry, but I hadn't been aware that he drifted so far into the world of woo.
He's a believer and has always been a fierce defender of charlatanry http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the-lounge/156700-jack-bybee-naq-questions.html
A "luminary" like BS...to some.


Quite.  Peter Aczel was already chastizing Curl back in the Audio Critic days , decades ago.

FWIW, that is my experience. John likes to put on an image that may appeal to the less sophisticated objectivist.

BTW, how long should I tarry at Amir's? He's threatening to throw me off, but first, he is making false claims with the goal of humiliating me and assaulting me with vicious personal attacks.  He apparently wants me to be a happy camper while he does what he can to embarrass and humiliate me.

"I am going to watch your next few posts. If they continue in the same tone and information-free nature, we will be saying goodbye to you."   I know that other HA regulars are familiar with these words.

 I'm sure that being proven wrong by JJ and I is irritating him, but JJ will likely get a pass because he is *somebody*.

It is an example of among other things the fallacy of proof by authority...

  • Wombat
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #22
DAC measurements reduced to noisefloor without frequency or impulse responds.
Judging HiBit music sound with moving pictures in best spectralophile manner complaining about noise at 70kHz. Nothing i'll misss i suppose.
One thing is priceless - jj debating with fas :)
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

  • Nichttaub
  • [*][*]
Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #23
 
Quite.  Peter Aczel was already chastizing Curl back in the Audio Critic days , decades ago.

I pretty much abandoned the audio magazines back in the 1980s after TAS and Stereo-pile veered off into the weeds; even Audio Amateur needed to be perused with skepticism thanks to some of the subjectivist drivel that found its way into the articles.  :(  I don't know if he ever submitted an article to TAA because I finally let my sub elapse.  So I knew nothing of Curl's aberrant beliefs until fairly recently.  It's a shame; but he really is talking nonsense.  If he really believes what he espouses, I can't take anything he's done seriously.

Sometime around 1985 a friend and I did a single-blind test of a highly-regarded tube preamp vs. an IC-based unit I designed myself.  We found that slight amplitude mismatches magnified any perceived differences, and once we had them synced, there was nothing to report.  Contrary to the typical audiophile reaction, I remember having a feeling almost of liberation - I could quit thinking about the electronics and just listen to music.  And isn't that supposed to be what we're after?

Re: Big Thank You for this Site -- Restoring my Sanity
Reply #24
Amir should visit HA and read the forum posts more frequently and carefully.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,114791.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112572.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,39970.0.html

...and much more, in the Listening Tests forum and all subforums of each lossy codecs.
You may not be aware, but while at MS, along with the codevelopment of Bluescreen, Amir also developed a novel listening test method that circumvented many issues with ABX and ABC/HR etc. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/1136745-establishing-differences-10-volume-method.html#post16216826.
No tedious level matching and dreaded excessive cognitive load...of BS fame, as described in his "Typical Filters not found anywhere" AES paper. I think Amir views ABX et al as rivals.
He gives an example of why ABX, level matching, etc. are not mandatory here http://www.madronadigital.com/mark-levinson-53, as they were not necessary to hear how much better $50k Class Bling amps were at  LF  vs AB amps.


The much more recent discussion this paper is quite enlightening:

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/limitations-of-blind-testing-procedures.1254/

Which references this paper:

https://hal-imt.archives-ouvertes.fr/file/index/docid/842647/filename/APAC_5172.pdf

I was amazed at the obvious flaws in the subject paper that nobody seemed to notice!

Then I found this thread:

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/objective-measurements-of-phono-cartridges.1939/#post-51202

which referenced this document: http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/vinyl/turntable-accessories/shure-m97xe-phono-cartridge-review/

and again at least one 500 pound gorilla seemed to have cloaked itself with invisibility.

  • Last Edit: 31 October, 2017, 08:24:43 AM by Arnold B. Krueger