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  • bmcelvan
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Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Using Lame Front End with Lame 3.99.5 and the option --replaygain-accurate. Am wondering if it actually does anything?

To test this I encoded the same .wav file to an mp3 with no replaygain added (--noreplaygain) three times and also to a flac with replaygain added.

I then used mp3gain to replaygain one of the mp3s to 92dB and one to 89dB.

Then I checked all the tags in mp3tag to see if there was replaygain info. There was in the FLAC tag under REPLAY_GAIN_etc and the two mp3gained mp3s in the APEv2 tag. However neither the lame encoded mp3s had replaygain info in them.

Then I played all the files in foobar toggling the playback settings for track replaygain on and off. The wav file seems to have been recorded around 95-96dB so it is loud. The FLAC file is hugely different when toggling the replay on and off. The lame replaygain-accurate encoded mp3 and the --noreplaygain encoded file sounded no different from the wav file with the toggle on or off...hence it appears that NOTHING ACTUALLY HAPPENED!

Am I right about this does anyone know? Is this just an artifact of a setting that used to work?

PS-FYI:
When I played the 4 mp3s in foobar with replaygain OFF (playback), the two as I just mentioned above sounded exactly the same and the 92dB (mp3gain) was less loud than those two and the 89dB was the least loud as expected.

I played them with replaygain playback off because I think if there is any replaygain info at all foobar automatically sets the loudness to 89dB so the 89dB and 92dB sounded the same as each other in foobar with this playback setting...although they were both equally less loud than the other two.

  • lithopsian
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #1
--replaygain-accurate differs from the default settings by computing replaygain levels slightly more accurately (and slowly) and also I think calculating clip levels. However, these replaygain values are still stored in the (essentially obsolete) LAME tags, not the now-universal REPLAYGAIN tags. That's why you thought that nothing happened.

  • bmcelvan
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #2
Thanks for the Reply.

Is the LAME tag a field in or part of the ID3v1, ID3v2, or APE tag system or is it a completely different tag?

If it is different, is there any software that can read it? An easy way to transfer the data generated into a text file or something that I can then add to the replaygain fields in an ID3 tag via mp3tag.

Or is just using MP3gain (APE) the better more supported way to go?

Thx
  • Last Edit: 22 June, 2017, 12:05:04 PM by bmcelvan

  • greynol
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  • Global Moderator
Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #3
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

  • lvqcl
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  • Developer
Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #4
Is the LAME tag a field in or part of the ID3v1, ID3v2, or APE tag system or is it a completely different tag?
It's a part of LAME header. Not a part of any tag.

An easy way to transfer the data generated into a text file or something that I can then add to the replaygain fields in an ID3 tag via mp3tag.
Try LameTag: https://phwip.wordpress.com/home/audio/

Or is just using MP3gain (APE) the better more supported way to go?
IMHO it's better to use foobar2000 replaygain scanner.

  • [JAZ]
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #5
Just as information:

--replaygain-accurate differs from --replaygain-fast (default) in that the former is calculated by decoding the MP3 that is being encoded, while the latter is calculated from the input signal.
This has effects especially on the peak values, but it can also make the replaygain value to be slightly different.

http://lame.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/lame/lame/doc/html/detailed.html?revision=1.12#replaygain-accurate

  • 2tec
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #6
Try LameTag: https://phwip.wordpress.com/home/audio/
The links on that page to the file downloads appear to be non-functional. I looked around and could not find a source for either the program or the GUI.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

  • bmcelvan
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #7
Or is just using MP3gain (APE) the better more supported way to go?
IMHO it's better to use foobar2000 replaygain scanner.

Can you tell me why foobar2000 replaygain scanner is better than mp3gain in your opinion?

The nice thing I've found with mp3gain is that you don't need a replaygain capable player to utilize it. For example playing mp3s in my truck from the usb thumb drive. MP3gained files will have a different volume output from the source if played in this system where adding replaygain info to the ID3 tags does nothing because that requires the player to see the info and then modify the output.

Try LameTag: https://phwip.wordpress.com/home/audio/

I too see that this software is no longer available there...but since it appears that there are better options anyway, I guess I'll either stick with mp3gain or use foobar depending on your opinion response.
  • Last Edit: 28 June, 2017, 09:55:16 AM by bmcelvan

  • lvqcl
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer
Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #8
I thought that you want just RG tags; but if you want to alter MP3 files, mp3gain is probably simpler for this task.

  • francesco
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #9
It's a part of LAME header. Not a part of any tag.
hi
Instead for days I tried to figure out how remove it , i have used several softwares
may i ask you ?

is there a way to remove the replaygain from the file header?

and is only foobar that can detect it?

for what i know it 's always ON  using lame.exe  --replaygain-fast  ,don't know about the dll

thanks

  • lvqcl
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer
Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #10
is there a way to remove the replaygain from the file header?
Manually with hex editor?

and is only foobar that can detect it?
foobar2000 cannot detect it.

  • francesco
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #11
Manually with hex editor?
hi
i guess there is a tool or a command line to remove these header

Quote
foobar2000 cannot detect it.
may i know which program can detect it?
and why does lame.exe add replaygain by default ? can't understand the the purpose

thanks

  • [JAZ]
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #12
@francesco : Even if it sounds as not an answer, the actual answer to "why does it do it" is because time has passed since it started doing it.
Also, it really doesn't matter if the files have it or not. They are inside the LAME tag, and you don't want to remove the LAME tag (you will lose other things, like VBR information and sample accurate decoding).

Quote
Replaygain 1.0
This proposal was published on July 10th 2001. Help with player and file format support is needed.
Quote
Replaygain  23 July 2001
file format page: syntax for including Replay Gain information within .wav files and .mp3 ID3v2 tagged files added.
Quote
Replaygain 10 October 2001
While we wait for player support, you can losslessly apply the suggested gain change to your mp3 files using MP3GAIN, available in the Software section.
Quote
LAME 3.90    December 21 2001
Preliminary ReplayGain analysis code added (not functional yet)

Original replaygain format information.
Note that the most used format to store it on MP3 files was the APE tag, since most MP3 files used ID3v1, and not ID3v2, and also because that was what MP3Gain used as tag to allow the undo of changes:
(Side note: Musepack (.mpc) added the support to the format and to the winamp plugin quite early. I believe around 2002 it already had it. Don't have here the exact details)
Quote
Each audio file format represents a unique situation. All audio files would benefit from the inclusion of Replay Gain information. In the following list, the links take you to a suggested format for storing the 3 values within the file. Where there is no link, I'm awaiting suggestions!

.ape
.mp3 - see:
ID3v2
LAME VBR proposed tag specification
.mpc
.ogg
.wav
Quote
LAME 3.94 beta December 15 2003
 ability to compute the "Radio" ReplayGain and detect clipping on the fly. The ReplayGain value is stored in the Lame tag.
Quote
LAME 3.95.1    January 12 2004
changed ReplayGain reference level to 89dB
Quote
LAME 3.96 beta 2    March 28 2004
added ability to disable ReplayGain analysis


There were several alternative MP3 decoders in Winamp, including MAD and shibatch mpg123. I found a post from 2003 where it says that none of these (neither the official one) supported replaygain. shibatch did support the lame tag, at least for sample accurate playback.
Quote
Winamp 5.3  Around 2006 ?
Improved: [in_mp3] replaygain support for MP3 playback
Quote
LAME 3.99.5   February 28 2012
Most recent version of LAME
Current list of suported formats
Quote
From the standpoint of metadata storage, each audio file format presents a unique situation. There are three favored schemes defined for storage of ReplayGain metadata: ID3v2, Vorbis comments and APEv2. A survey of file formats is listed below with metadata schemes in order of preference for each:

.aac (Advanced Audio Coding raw format) – No metadata support (use .mp4 instead)
.aiff, .aif, .aifc (Apple Interchange File Format) – ID3v2 (in "ID3" IFF chunk)
.ape, .apl (Monkey's Audio) – APEv2
.bwf (Broadcast Wave Format) – ID3v2 (in RIFF chunk)
.flac (Free Lossless Audio Codec) – Vorbis comments
.mp3 (MPEG audio layer 3) – ID3v2, LAME VBR proposed tag specification
.mp4 also .m4a, .m4b, .m4p, m4r (MPEG-4 Part 14) – ID3v2 (in "ID32" box)
.mpc (Musepack) – APEv2
.ogg (Ogg Vorbis) – Vorbis comments
.tta (True Audio) – ID3v2, APEv2
.wma (Windows Media audio) - Vorbis comments in Extended Content Description Object
.wav (Windows PCM) – No metadata support (use .bwf instead)
.wv (WavePak) – APEv2


So... probably, already 10 years ago, the replaygain data on the LAME tag had become obsolete and never had any big usage share.
  • Last Edit: 02 July, 2017, 06:17:45 AM by [JAZ]

  • lvqcl
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  • Developer
Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #13
i guess there is a tool or a command line to remove these header
I doubt it. Besides, removing LAME header will break gapless playback of LAME-encoded MP3 files.

and why does lame.exe add replaygain by default ? can't understand the the purpose
No purpose currently. But, no problems also.
  • Last Edit: 02 July, 2017, 09:03:22 AM by lvqcl

  • francesco
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Re: Does --replaygain-accurate actually do anything?
Reply #14
@[JAZ] & @lvqcl
thank you so much!