Skip to main content

Topic: new turntable (Read 3747 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • AndyH-ha
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
new turntable
probably expensive but interesting
http://www.avsforum.com/mag-lev-turntable/

  • DVDdoug
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: new turntable
Reply #1
I looks really cool, but to me any "advances" in turntables are absurd.    I'll stick it next to my mag-lev VHS player.   :D 

  • Roseval
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: new turntable
Reply #2
Matching speakers: http://crazybaby.com/mars
TheWellTemperedComputer.com

  • cliveb
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer
Re: new turntable
Reply #3
OK, as Doug says it looks cool, but I have a concern, Of course I don't know exactly how it works, but presumably it involves some kind of rotating magnetic field - and a pretty strong one if it's going to levitate the platter. So the question is, how is that rotating strong magnetic field going to affect the internal workings of the pickup cartridge?

Re: new turntable
Reply #4
This looks like a horrible idea. The platter and tone are need to be rigidly coupled. Also, the wobble when you flicked the platter was absurd- try doing that to my 1200, see how much the platter moves. Lastly, vinyls major issues do not come from platter noise. Hipsters man...

Re: new turntable
Reply #5
The platter and tone are need to be rigidly coupled.

Don't think so, since the cartridge end of the tone arm is far from being rigidly coupled to the platter,. It is only very loosely coupled in several directions, one of which corresponds to the direction of maximal mechanical sensitivity of the cartridge.

The magnetic field in the cartridge is generally relatively strong compared to the one supporting the platter.

If there is a problem like that it would certainly be easy enough to measure.

I would like to see how rapidly the platter accelerates to proper rotational speed and how accurately it rotates at the correct speed when there are influences like stylus drag.


Looks like there are still turntables for sale at < $1000 which is not that unreasonable for a high end turntable.

They seem to  have been delivering product for a a few days.

There is a vinyl drop that you can access on Dropbox  starting here:  https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/245727224/mag-lev-audio-the-first-levitating-turntable/posts/1730825 . First take - sounds OK.

For example, they just introduced  Shinola Turntable is $2500.  I

 like the name, its ob viously for audiophiles who don't know  $#!^ from Shinola.



  • Last Edit: 29 November, 2016, 05:37:10 AM by Arnold B. Krueger

Re: new turntable
Reply #6
The platter and tone are need to be rigidly coupled.

Don't think so, since the cartridge end of the tone arm is far from being rigidly coupled to the platter,. It is only very loosely coupled in several directions, one of which corresponds to the direction of maximal mechanical sensitivity of the cartridge.

But they are coupled to the same base in order track correctly.  This seems like the most idiotic non-solution. Imagine turntable where the platter did not have a physical mount to the same datum as the tone arm. Imagine having no rigid physical control over the position of the platter... Oh, wait!

Re: new turntable
Reply #7
The platter and tone are need to be rigidly coupled.

Don't think so, since the cartridge end of the tone arm is far from being rigidly coupled to the platter,. It is only very loosely coupled in several directions, one of which corresponds to the direction of maximal mechanical sensitivity of the cartridge.

But they are coupled to the same base in order track correctly. 

Yes they are, by the magnetic fields which are something like springs.

Quote
This seems like the most idiotic non-solution. Imagine turntable where the platter did not have a physical mount to the same datum as the tone arm. Imagine having no rigid physical control over the position of the platter... Oh, wait!

Just 'cause you can't see it, doesn't mean it does not exist.

The apparent goal of low rumble in the audible range may have been met..

Of course applying fancy technology to playing legacy media with a ton of built-in flaws is throwing good money after bad.


  • Atmasphere
  • [*][*]
Re: new turntable
Reply #8
Quote
This looks like a horrible idea. The platter and tone are need to be rigidly coupled. Also, the wobble when you flicked the platter was absurd- try doing that to my 1200, see how much the platter moves. Lastly, vinyls major issues do not come from platter noise. Hipsters man...

+1

It appears that the platter can move independently of the arm. Any such motion will (obviously) be interpreted by the pickup as a signal.


Re: new turntable
Reply #9
Quote
This looks like a horrible idea. The platter and tone are need to be rigidly coupled. Also, the wobble when you flicked the platter was absurd- try doing that to my 1200, see how much the platter moves. Lastly, vinyls major issues do not come from platter noise. Hipsters man...

+1

It appears that the platter can move independently of the arm. Any such motion will (obviously) be interpreted by the pickup as a signal.

Show me a tone arm that isn't capable of moving somewhat independently of the platter, and I'll show you an arm that can't possibly track.

One of the things that tone arms generally do is allow the cartridge nearly perfectly free motion in several different directions.  Typically, with the usual pivoted arm, the only rigid constraint is on the distance from the stylus to the arm's lateral pivot.

In the case of this magneticially suspended arm, that constraint is created by the shape of the magnetic field supporting the platter.

If the cartridge isn't free to move vertically it will either dig into the LP or pop free of it whenever the LP is not perfectly flat and perfectly aligned. Of course being ideals, perfect alignment and perfect flatness never happen.

If the cartridge is not free to move laterally, it will stay stuck in a single groove.

Be careful what you ask for, because due to your lack of practical knowledge about the kinematics of tone arms, if you get what you ask for you will have a useless turntable!
 
  • Last Edit: 07 August, 2017, 10:04:20 PM by Arnold B. Krueger

Re: new turntable
Reply #10
Arnold, you continually spout facts that completely miss the point of the argument. I've never seen anyone who is pedantic to this level, whilst ensuring they are totally irrelevant to the discussion.

Re: new turntable
Reply #11
Arnold, you continually spout facts that completely miss the point of the argument. I've never seen anyone who is pedantic to this level, whilst ensuring they are totally irrelevant to the discussion.

That's a pretty content-free personal attack.

No technical or factual content that I can see. Are you hiding your intellectual light under a basket of ad hominem?

How about something totally new from you, like a topi-relevant factually-based post?

Friendly advice - you can look up words you don't understand and never before saw in your life like Kinematics on the web, and even educate about what is all about.

  • Atmasphere
  • [*][*]
Re: new turntable
Reply #12
Quote
This looks like a horrible idea. The platter and tone are need to be rigidly coupled. Also, the wobble when you flicked the platter was absurd- try doing that to my 1200, see how much the platter moves. Lastly, vinyls major issues do not come from platter noise. Hipsters man...

+1

It appears that the platter can move independently of the arm. Any such motion will (obviously) be interpreted by the pickup as a signal.

Show me a tone arm that isn't capable of moving somewhat independently of the platter, and I'll show you an arm that can't possibly track.

One of the things that tone arms generally do is allow the cartridge nearly perfectly free motion in several different directions.  Typically, with the usual pivoted arm, the only rigid constraint is on the distance from the stylus to the arm's lateral pivot.

In the case of this magneticially suspended arm, that constraint is created by the shape of the magnetic field supporting the platter.

If the cartridge isn't free to move vertically it will either dig into the LP or pop free of it whenever the LP is not perfectly flat and perfectly aligned. Of course being ideals, perfect alignment and perfect flatness never happen.

If the cartridge is not free to move laterally, it will stay stuck in a single groove.

Be careful what you ask for, because due to your lack of practical knowledge about the kinematics of tone arms, if you get what you ask for you will have a useless turntable!
 

You don't seem to understand the engineering problem, thus your response.

Forget about the bearings of the arm for a moment- just think about the fact that if the **base** of the arm is able to move in a different plane from that of the platter that noise or coloration will be the result. If rigidly in the same plane (regardless of induced vibration) the pickup will be unable to interpret vibration between the platter and arm base as a signal.


Re: new turntable
Reply #13
Quote
This looks like a horrible idea. The platter and tone are need to be rigidly coupled. Also, the wobble when you flicked the platter was absurd- try doing that to my 1200, see how much the platter moves. Lastly, vinyls major issues do not come from platter noise. Hipsters man...

+1

It appears that the platter can move independently of the arm. Any such motion will (obviously) be interpreted by the pickup as a signal.

Show me a tone arm that isn't capable of moving somewhat independently of the platter, and I'll show you an arm that can't possibly track.

One of the things that tone arms generally do is allow the cartridge nearly perfectly free motion in several different directions.  Typically, with the usual pivoted arm, the only rigid constraint is on the distance from the stylus to the arm's lateral pivot.

In the case of this magneticially suspended arm, that constraint is created by the shape of the magnetic field supporting the platter.

If the cartridge isn't free to move vertically it will either dig into the LP or pop free of it whenever the LP is not perfectly flat and perfectly aligned. Of course being ideals, perfect alignment and perfect flatness never happen.

If the cartridge is not free to move laterally, it will stay stuck in a single groove.

Be careful what you ask for, because due to your lack of practical knowledge about the kinematics of tone arms, if you get what you ask for you will have a useless turntable!
 

You don't seem to understand the engineering problem, thus your response.

LOL!

I've analyzed, designed and built tone arms.

Please tell us about your engineering background.

Quote
Forget about the bearings of the arm for a moment- just think about the fact that if the **base** of the arm is able to move in a different plane from that of the platter

I get it. You have no idea about what restrains motion even when there is no rigid mechanical connection.

Quote
that noise or coloration will be the result.

Prove it.

Quote
If rigidly in the same plane (regardless of induced vibration) the pickup will be unable to interpret vibration between the platter and arm base as a signal.

Gibberish.

Here's an example of a proper engineering paper about tone arms: http://www.cartchunk.org/audiotopics/ToneArmMechanics.pdf

Please refine your hand-waving into the engineering model presented in that paper, or explain in technical terms, the reason why not.

  • Atmasphere
  • [*][*]
Re: new turntable
Reply #14
Per typical, nonsense backed up by strawmen, who notoriously can't really carry any weight. In this case also, a powerful need to be right, regardless of fact.

Arne, there is really no mention of the plinth's role in that article you linked (with which I have no argument at all). FWIW I've built arms too- and also turntables. You might try building one for yourself, if so, pay attention to the principles I outlined and you will do well.

Re: new turntable
Reply #15
Per typical, nonsense backed up by strawmen, who notoriously can't really carry any weight. In this case also, a powerful need to be right, regardless of fact.

So says the one who can't even provide a short needle drop supporting his exceptional claims about click-free LPs. You've had about a week to show any progress, its safe for me to say you'll be a no-show, right?

Quote
Arne, there is really no mention of the plinth's role in that article you linked (with which I have no argument at all).

Shows what little you understand about engineering models and how they relate to the real world. The model shown is all relative to the universal fixed coordinate system, which in the real world is what vinylphiles pretentiously call the plinth.

If you look it up, plinth is just a word from ancient English that means base or chassis.  Modern English being the standard language of this forum, let us call things what they are, no?

Quote
FWIW I've built arms too- and also turntables. You might try building one for yourself, if so, pay attention to the principles I outlined and you will do well.

You've outlined no list of principles sufficient to build anything, let alone a turntable and arm.

Look, I've even had to educate you about the functional components of a common moving-coil cartridge.  You have now proven you can't understand even a tutorial-level paper by a well-known audio engineer about tone arm resonance or recognize the limits of its analysis.

Given your now proven inability to provide real-world references or perform common real-world activities, it all must be in your poorly-informed  mind.

  • Atmasphere
  • [*][*]
Re: new turntable
Reply #16
Per typical, nonsense backed up by strawmen, who notoriously can't really carry any weight. In this case also, a powerful need to be right, regardless of fact.

So says the one who can't even provide a short needle drop supporting his exceptional claims about click-free LPs. You've had about a week to show any progress, its safe for me to say you'll be a no-show, right?

No. I don't keep any digital recording gear at home and I don't go to the studio at your whim. Now to be clear- If I can produce just one click-free LP side you're good, right? Or are you going to pull the moving target thing?

Quote
Arne, there is really no mention of the plinth's role in that article you linked (with which I have no argument at all).
Quote
Shows what little you understand about engineering models and how they relate to the real world. The model shown is all relative to the universal fixed coordinate system, which in the real world is what vinylphiles pretentiously call the plinth.

No- what this shows is that you pretty much ignored what I was talking about and decided to talk about what you wanted to talk about- and knocked down an argument I never made. That's a classic strawman. Just to be clear: that very good article is irrelevant to this conversation; if you don't think so you are missing the point. Worth repeating: if you don't think so you are missing the point. , which was why you linked that article. Think about the fact that you are missing the point.
Quote
If you look it up, plinth is just a word from ancient English that means base or chassis.  Modern English being the standard language of this forum, let us call things what they are, no?

Gawd.  ::)

Quote
FWIW I've built arms too- and also turntables. You might try building one for yourself, if so, pay attention to the principles I outlined and you will do well.
Quote
You've outlined no list of principles sufficient to build anything, let alone a turntable and arm.

Look, I've even had to educate you about the functional components of a common moving-coil cartridge.  You have now proven you can't understand even a tutorial-level paper by a well-known audio engineer about tone arm resonance or recognize the limits of its analysis.

Given your now proven inability to provide real-world references or perform common real-world activities, it all must be in your poorly-informed  mind.


Nothing proven by you except in your mind. You often don't have a clue of what your are talking about, then troll ceaselessly, likely on account of not having a life. If you don't agree with that, think about the fact that what you just said about me was entirely false as well (Example- you've never said a word to me about moving coil cartridges and the conversation (if one can call it that) was about a cantilever and you provided no education whatsoever; it was stuff I've known for decades.) OK. Now that I've solved the world's problems all in one go, back to the subject:

I did indeed state a design principle of any good turntable. Go back and read it again. Its pretty simple, but important if the 'table is to perform with low noise.