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Topic: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end (Read 11005 times) previous topic - next topic
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DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

I know, it seems as primitiv question - but nowhere to find an answer. In my opinion, if answer is "yes", then the service is useless - of course, I do not want to remove silent pieces inside of songs.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #1 –
It does remove internal silence.

Quote from: incifinci on
but nowhere to find an answer.
The application itself contains the answer. You just need a song with internal silence to test it. I just did that and it is definitely faster than researching the question on the web. ;)

There used to be a "Gap Killer" DSP which only removed silence at the start and end of a song. I don't know what happened to it though.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #2 –
@foosion
Thank you for quick response. Yes, you are right, as I am tired. :D
Sorry for the answer. :( So I continue to use WavTrim, it is highly configurable. (And Audacity for home digitized songs.)

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #3 –
Quote from: incifinci on
[...]
 if answer is "yes", then the service is useless
[...]
I don't see the problem. You can configure how long the silent parts must be before they get stripped. So don't set too short a period. It's not as if silent periods of 3 or more seconds are that common they are to be seen as part of a track. I'd sooner think the following part then to be a 'hidden' track if I find such a long period of silence in the middle of a track...

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #4 –
I'd never modify my files and I can't see myself using a DSP either. However, foo_wave_seekbar is handy if you want to skip a long silence to where the music starts/restarts.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #5 –
@Just_Addict
The purpose of trimming for me is to play songs nearly gapless, so I trim out all from ~500 ms, both from the start and the end.

@marc2003
Thank you for the tip. I use it already, it is really useful.

PS
...but yes, this DSP may be useful for others, for other purposes. (I never met that hidden tracks, mentioned above.)

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #6 –
Skip Silence exists because some people prefer hearing music instead of waiting for artistical silence to end.

I don't understand why anyone needs "gap killer" features in this day when all serious formats have supported gapless information for a long time. LAME added required data in its headers 15 years ago.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #7 –
I use Sansa Clip+ for walking and jogging. It is a very good player, but does not support gapless playback.
(And in home made digitizations trim usually available only manually, because of high vinyl noise.)

But: in general, I like things to be in logical, correct look. I can not understand, why to store silence in my music files. So I trim it. My motto: erronous things must be corrected at the root place of error. In our case it means: a logical, good practice is not to store silence in files, then manipulate this error with some instruments, like Gap Killer, but simply remove this error.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #8 –
Since you have a Sansa Clip+, you really should install rockbox on it. Perfect gapless playback is just one of it's many features.

http://www.rockbox.org/

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #9 –
@marc2003
I think, you are right. But... (I answered here.) And a second: the last part of my previous comment (I added it after your comment).

By the way (continouing my previous comment), logical, correct look in fact usually is not only for "look". In this case: it will (...be - I use it rarely) more complicated to fade in-out files with silence part in the start or end. So, again, better to cut it out, once forever. To store silence in files is useless.

PS
I seems, I must to add something for correctness - the topic seems to end in other like, than my simple plan was. :D Foobar2000 is a brilliant application, as a swiss knife, for many reasons. I am sure: if an app can do 1,000 useful things, and can not do the 1001. one, it is not a very big problem. :D Thanks again to Peter and all developers.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Case on
Skip Silence exists because some people prefer hearing music instead of waiting for artistical silence to end.

I assumed it was for spoken audio such as podcasts or talks.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #11 –
I use it exclusively to skip the silence that sometimes precedes hidden tracks.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #12 –
Off topic

@marc2003
So, I installed Rockbox. I was waiting more goods... :( Of course, it is not worse, than Sansa Clip+ firmware, but, for example, tag limitations are not very nice (and I can not understand, why).
Quote
1. Multiple tags (e.g. for Genre) are not supported. The first tag item of a set of multiple tags is used.
4. The maximum size of each metadata item (e.g. Artists) is limited to 240 bytes.
Composer tag in ID3 is not supported.
Nonstandard (individual) tags are totally not supported.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #13 –
Off topic

@marc2003
So, I installed Rockbox. I was waiting more goods... :( In my opinion, it is worse, than Sansa Clip+ firmware. For example, tag limitations are not very nice (and I can not understand, why).
Quote
1. Multiple tags (e.g. for Genre) are not supported. The first tag item of a set of multiple tags is used.
4. The maximum size of each metadata item (e.g. Artists) is limited to 240 bytes.
Composer tag in ID3 is not supported.
Nonstandard (individual) tags are totally not supported.
And there are big, unsolved problems with font sizes, too.

LATER
As now foobar2000 mobile avilable for my phone (WinPhone 8.1), too; and it is very nice and useful, as I was waiting, of course :) ; with opus support, too - so all my questions relative to Sansa Clip+ are solved now, by trash bin. :D (In fact, I left it as battery-type reserve in my pocket.)

Hmm... Editor for old posts works in very interesting way. :D It creates a new one.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #14 –
While slightly OT, what kind of problems did you have? While finding a good theme and font can take a while (I eventually settled on 14-NimbusUmingCyrHeb with Theme4Chinese and a base skin of rockbox_failsafe), I've thrown most everything at my Rockboxed Clip+ and it has generally done a good job handling it. (MP3 gaplessness is actually more reliable than Foobar's.) By the time the tags are anywhere close to 240 bytes, reading them before the screen goes out tends to be a bigger issue. I suppose not having a composer tag would suck for classical music that is tagged accordingly, admittedly I don't have a lot of that.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #15 –
Off topic

I tried 5-10 theme, but could not find any without font size problem (in the top side of Sansa's display), while Sansa's original firmware has no such symptoms. Little later, when I understood those tags' restrictions, I gave up totally with Rockbox, as could not see any reason to change from original firmware to Rockbox. In general: any tag manager software, in my eyes, with such restrictions, simply are not serious.

At that time foobar mobile was not available for WinPhone 8.1. Now, when it is, with its rich functions - in my opinion (I mean, for my needs) any minute for Sansa is waste of time.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #16 –
Off topic, again  :D

I returned from Lumia to Sansa Clip: Sansa has much better sound, especially in high frequencies.

And, again because of sound quality, there is a second minus of Rockbox. Look: http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Sansa-Clip-Sansa-Clip/Clip-Sound-Quality-Original-Firmware-vs-Rockbox/td-p/219928

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #17 –
off, again
Quote from: incifinci on
...there is a second minus of Rockbox...
...but it is not unambiguous. And I found, now RockBox supports much more tags, composer too - so I try to do a little test for myself about the sound quality.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #18 –
In case anyone is interested I converted the old Gap Killer DSP to work with the current foobar2000 versions. It can be downloaded here.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Case on
In case anyone is interested I converted the old Gap Killer DSP to work with the current foobar2000 versions. It can be downloaded here.

Would you consider adding the ability to choose which gaps to kill?  i.e., only at the end, only at the beginning, or both?

Sorry to bump, but I didn't find a dedicated topic for Gap Killer on a quick search.

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #20 –
(Edit: Stupid me, wrong version.)

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #21 –
Quote from: neothe0ne on
Quote from: Case on
In case anyone is interested I converted the old Gap Killer DSP to work with the current foobar2000 versions. It can be downloaded here.

Would you consider adding the ability to choose which gaps to kill?  i.e., only at the end, only at the beginning, or both?

Sorry to bump, but I didn't find a dedicated topic for Gap Killer on a quick search.

Hi.

Sorry to reply to an old post, but I have similar problems.

I want to remove silence at the beginning and end of songs - due to the use of smooth "crossing" of consecutive songs.

Unfortunately, the built-in DSP "Skip Silence" does not include this option. Another disadvantage of DSP "Skip Silence" is that it also cuts off silent passages, anywhere inside the playing song, if there is a short silent passage - and that is of course undesirable. The solution would be to add new function to the DSP "Skip Silence", to remove the preset level of "silence", specifically only at the beginning and end of the song.

And DSP "Gap Killer" does not allow you to set the dB level of "silence", but only the minimum time duration of silence, for cutting it off. This is a big mistake, because Gap Killer does remove the beginning and end of silence, but only if it is absolute silence. Unfortunately, many songs contain "quiet noise" at the beginning and at the end. This means that Gap Killer will not cut off this "quiet noise" in that case.

I'm trying to solve it, already in my own new post, here:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,122706.msg1012791.html#msg1012791
(moderators of this discussion forum, could you include this new post of mine and add it to this old thread... thank you... and sorry for "crossing" posts... I want to "cross" songs and not posts... ha-ha)

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #22 –
Quote from: s3n0 on
And DSP "Gap Killer" does not allow you to set the dB level of "silence", but only the minimum time duration of silence, for cutting it off.
Did you try Gap Killer v0.4.4 on the same page? - "Alternative work-in-progress version with manually configurable threshold".

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #23 –
Hi @anamorphic .
I tried to download and install it (Gap Killer v0.4.4).
It looks like it works. I still have to test.
Anyway, thanks a lot !

Re: DSP "skip silence" removes internal silences too, or only from the start and end

Reply #24 –
Quote from: s3n0 on
Hi.

There is about one small BUG in the case of Gap Killer v0.4.4 development version. It should be fixed.

Because I use online radio (audio stream) in my Foobar2K. If I start any online radio from my play-list, Gap Killer seems to try to cut off the initial and non-existent quiet spot. And it does it for the duration of the cache size set in GapKiller (in my case it is 14000 ms).