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  • rjamorim
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Hello.

As most of you probably already know, I plan to start later this month the 128kbps extension test, where the winner of the AAC@128kbps test (QuickTime) will compete against MPC, Vorbis, WMA, MP3 and maybe Atrac3 (Real Audio)

The test will be a VBR test. That automatically leads to issues related to bitrates - you can't get similar bitrates across all samples, and that might be considered unfairness.

For this reason, I need your help.

My plan is to test encoded bitrates of several different albums and see what setting comes closest overall to 128kbps.

So, what I am asking you to do:

1 - Encode one (or more  ) of your albums with MPC 1.14 and/or Ogg Vorbis Post-1.0-CVS (available at RareWares) using the quality settings 3.5, 3.75, 4.0, 4.25 and 4.5. It would also help if you can try some albums in WMA "85 to 145kbps VBR", in this case just to have an idea of what is the average bitrate this setting outputs.
2 - Download the bitrate calculation tool ff123 created
http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/bitrate.zip (484Kb - Win32)  or
http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/bitrate.py (2Kb - any OS with Python)
3 - Create lists of the encoded files and the unencoded files.
On the windows command prompt, run 'dir /b *.wav > wavlist.txt' and 'dir /b *.ogg > ogglist.txt' (or mpc if that's the case)
4 - Run the bitrate program.
In Win32 command prompt: bitrate.exe wavlist.txt ogglist.txt > results.txt
Using the Python script: python bitrate.py wavlist.txt ogglist.txt > results.txt
5 - Post the results for each quality setting in this thread, also mentioning Album name, artist and style (something basic like "rock", "heavy metal", "country", "pop"...)

I would ask people to send me the results by mail, but I guess it will be a useful resource for other people that might be interested in these numbers, that's why I'm asking them to be posted here.

Q- Why only MPC and Vorbis?
A- Because these are the only formats that use a quality scale. QuickTime will be using the 128kbps bitrate, Lame the "--alt-preset 128" and Atrac3, if present, the 132kbps setting.

I'll update this post if any issues arise.

Thank you very much to anyone that decides to help.

Regards;

Roberto.

PS: big thanks to ff123 for creating the bitrate tool.
  • Last Edit: 08 August, 2003, 11:19:41 AM by rjamorim
Get up-to-date binaries of Lame, AAC, Vorbis and much more at RareWares:
http://www.rarewares.org

  • rjamorim
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #1
I'll start posting my first results.

Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of The Moon - SACD commemorative version (red book part)
Progressive Rock

ogg q 3.5
Quote
[112.3845883730004, 118.39706021811286, 113.31590633130962, 114.47673828124999, 112.77361801970906, 121.96301121716714, 114.25674394846619, 117.43182464761412, 115.80207990599294, 109.70774376647073]
115.567066525


ogg q 3.75
Quote
[114.77955520873977, 122.14703651019441, 115.86272333044232, 117.7762890625, 115.93875175973722, 125.70227826935135, 117.4695082153296, 121.22843657054183, 119.63591069330199, 112.68220150010137]
118.909624513


ogg q 4.0
Quote
[116.74085056574327, 125.68269321953532, 118.19875108412836, 120.87626953125, 118.7699577663069, 129.05026823660558, 120.37509577456795, 124.29093495409285, 123.17115158636896, 115.49616866004462]
121.932107217


ogg q 4.25
Quote
[122.70901287553649, 131.1936462778568, 123.71958369470946, 126.4998828125, 124.25014547160957, 135.24413014700758, 125.75588978120831, 130.33543256174835, 128.77903642773208, 121.00131765659843]
127.599113763


ogg q 4.5
Quote
[128.59453765119002, 136.52626837363678, 129.21047701647873, 131.98951171875001, 129.60160488033787, 141.27878492301261, 130.89475297255882, 136.22828139143928, 134.2101292596945, 126.35096290289886]
133.110788927


mpc q 3.5
Quote
[90.186812329301603, 111.09321953532479, 96.576444058976591, 100.49375000000001, 95.093045518535902, 110.62966627185955, 103.58085076193989, 109.20450019397387, 106.915910693302, 85.919562132576544]
102.553905337


mpc q 3.75
Quote
[98.77409285992978, 118.3366524419156, 104.67677363399827, 107.70726562500001, 102.18132332238386, 118.71422002368843, 110.59464797525469, 117.23998448208974, 114.74933019976498, 93.559862152848169]
110.106245023


mpc q 4.0
Quote
[115.04221615294577, 137.71398767188242, 124.74754553339115, 126.07734375, 120.31185358986393, 139.15276248867832, 129.59278072590027, 136.88240010345274, 133.95553466509986, 112.85765254409083]
129.256309656


mpc q 4.25
Quote
[127.47811158798284, 147.88980559506876, 136.66664353859497, 137.31031250000001, 131.20082590333178, 150.54477809517172, 139.96108856664489, 147.39314625630414, 145.50232667450061, 124.49616866004462]
140.332058614


mpc q 4.5
Quote
[139.67288333983615, 156.67994310099573, 146.17630529054642, 146.91953125000001, 141.64448615673393, 159.25545878910333, 148.82451828939526, 156.34558386137334, 155.19130434782608, 133.78576930873709]
149.708193297



Comments: Interesting, in this album, Vorbis q 4.25, and not q 4.0 is the setting that comes closest to the desired bitrate.
Get up-to-date binaries of Lame, AAC, Vorbis and much more at RareWares:
http://www.rarewares.org

  • ff123
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer (Donating)
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #2
A couple of comments:

1.  Sorry about the very ugly formatting.
2.  Be aware that the bitrates for individual songs might be messed up if the ordering of WAV listfile doesn't match the ordering of the compressed listfile.  However, the overall average bitrate should not be affected by the ordering.

ff123

Edit:  Regarding the other formats:  Don't you still want to verify the actual bitrates that each codec produces?  I'm thinking especially of the wma vbr setting.  Ideally, each album would be encoded by each of the codecs to be compared using the final settings.
  • Last Edit: 07 July, 2003, 10:55:06 PM by ff123

  • rjamorim
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #3
Quote
Edit:  Regarding the other formats:  Don't you still want to verify the actual bitrates that each codec produces?  I'm thinking especially of the wma vbr setting.  Ideally, each album would be encoded by each of the codecs to be compared using the final settings.

Updated asking people to test albums with WMA VBR. I don't think Lame and QT AAC will be needed, since they are ABR settings. Besides, I think it's better if people focus on the codecs in which their results will really make a difference.

And QT requires that people register it, which is another turn off.

I'm open to ideas, though.
Get up-to-date binaries of Lame, AAC, Vorbis and much more at RareWares:
http://www.rarewares.org

  • ff123
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer (Donating)
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #4
Quote
Quote
Edit:  Regarding the other formats:  Don't you still want to verify the actual bitrates that each codec produces?  I'm thinking especially of the wma vbr setting.  Ideally, each album would be encoded by each of the codecs to be compared using the final settings.

Updated asking people to test albums with WMA VBR. I don't think Lame and QT AAC will be needed, since they are ABR settings. Besides, I think it's better if people focus on the codecs in which their results will really make a difference.

And QT requires that people register it, which is another turn off.

I'm open to ideas, though. 

BTW, regarding WMA, is this wma9 standard or wma9 pro?  I guess I'll look it up when I get home.

ff123

  • rjamorim
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #5
Quote
BTW, regarding WMA, is this wma9 standard or wma9 pro?  I guess I'll look it up when I get home.

WMA PRO is only for high bit dephts, high sampling rates and/or multichannel files. At least using Windows Media Encoder 9
  • Last Edit: 07 July, 2003, 11:48:29 PM by rjamorim
Get up-to-date binaries of Lame, AAC, Vorbis and much more at RareWares:
http://www.rarewares.org

  • ff123
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer (Donating)
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #6
wma9 pro sounds better than wma9 standard, although it breaks compatibility with older decoders.  It can encode standard wav files ripped from CD (44 kHz, 2 channel 16 bit), even though the bit depth says 24.

quality vbr (unconstrained vbr) is probably the best sounding mode, and it appears that vbr q75 is closest to averaging 128 kbit/s.


Here is the album "Green Velvet" encoded with wma9 pro, vbr q75, 44 kHz, 24 bit, 2 channels:
Music type: electronic
[86.972557094132625, 120.28049106936817, 179.21530396618985, 93.248373892564757, 128.42557648774124, 141.1262325080732, 93.804226888464683, 117.17591534391535, 151.16626494454314, 102.71106118216385, 106.48621369294605, 133.45010852713179]
115.938549167

Note the extremely wide range of bitrates

"Gaucho" by Steely Dan
Music type: pop/jazz
[124.70206522965805, 114.74989181825468, 119.21907097689262, 131.75199130434783, 109.18418514007308, 117.58154273450322, 128.66759548657097]
120.711079115

"The Bends" by Radiohead
[115.15352979274613, 120.60186269667678, 135.25165122963909, 118.85178964757709, 133.47806241266883, 110.50555871967195, 111.7197279567818, 131.56182358997827, 118.11415746568981, 110.06901029295329, 112.8178327951202, 107.37592853275582]
118.531313482
  • Last Edit: 08 July, 2003, 02:36:58 AM by ff123

  • Tomcat
  • [*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #7
Regarding WMA9:  Would you use quality-driven VBR or 2-pass VBR? The last encodes near to specified bitrate, remaining VBR in nature.

About mpc at 128 -  is this his niche?! Imho, he is worst at 128 among concurrents, espesially at rich composition.

(Excuse me my English)

I tried to select -q setting to achieve target bitrate for ogg and mpc, and I selected for every composition proper setting with precision one digit after period.
There was my own samples, resulting bitrate is about 128 +/-2kbps, see -q setting:

mppenc --quality 3.2 --overwrite Cat.wav Cat-128-mpc.mpc
mppenc --quality 4 --overwrite Fools.wav Fools-128-mpc.mpc
mppenc --quality 3.2 --overwrite Jarre.wav Jarre-128-mpc.mpc
mppenc --quality 4.2 --overwrite Rem.wav Rem-128-mpc.mpc

oggenc -q 3,5 Cat.wav -o Cat-128-ogg.ogg
oggenc -q 4,2 Fools.wav -o Fools-128-ogg.ogg
oggenc -q 2 Jarre.wav -o Jarre-128-ogg.ogg
oggenc -q 5,1 Rem.wav -o Rem-128-ogg.ogg

So, is the sence to select album-based quality setting? And see encoding results from ff123 for example: will be representative to compare 87kbps, 151kbps encodings with CBR or ABR encodings of other formats?
  • Last Edit: 08 July, 2003, 02:43:08 AM by Tomcat

  • ff123
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer (Donating)
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #8
Quote
Regarding WMA9:  Would you use quality-driven VBR or 2-pass VBR? The last encodes near to specified bitrate, remaining VBR in nature.

Hmm.  Difficult decisions.  "Bitrate VBR," which defaults to 2-pass, could be the better quality choice if normal samples are chosen.  It seems as if quality 75 vbr is averaging about 10 kbit/s shy of 128 kbit/s for the albums I chose.  However, if tough samples are chosen, bitrate vbr could lose to quality vbr, because the latter's bitrate is unconstrained.

ff123

  • KikeG
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #9
What about VBR AAC? (Sorry if this has been already answered).

  • elmar3rd
  • [*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #10
Quote
1 - Encode one (or more  ) of your albums with MPC 1.14 and/or Ogg Vorbis Pre-CVS (available at RareWares)

Pre-CVS? I only see Post 1.0 CVS at http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/ogg.html.

  • Moitah
  • [*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #11
2Gether - Again
Pop

OGG 3.5:
[115.89854072698328, 115.97419485791612, 113.61107650643196, 114.62921547745829, 119.93085804844918, 124.33237890448167, 114.19223965763196, 117.83900304624758, 113.6460777562136, 112.58804979253111, 114.15963845521775, 124.80674373795762, 112.93296673082212]
116.540980518

OGG 3.75:
[119.41665163173255, 119.60995940460081, 117.00219363574813, 118.00358537451189, 123.5570409780394, 128.87332503395203, 118.07082453637661, 121.71821656050956, 117.36537907719276, 116.43825726141078, 117.42563681183238, 129.47734104046242, 116.0898872697278]
120.265096497

OGG 4.0:
[122.60777925179093, 122.97986468200271, 120.37994583615436, 121.222861199858, 126.80311297260585, 132.90743549117249, 121.63747788873039, 125.27275546939907, 121.09718900644839, 120.25311203319501, 120.52151191454395, 133.58142581888248, 119.60538905691504]
123.780540565

OGG 4.25:
[128.15006633059167, 128.49474966170501, 125.63914691943128, 126.52303869364572, 132.7352614896989, 139.25900860117702, 127.67417974322397, 131.09313763500415, 126.58024165779754, 125.70153526970954, 125.71418241577649, 140.14312138728323, 124.90422875996701]
129.455254733

OGG 4.5:
[133.47877951711328, 133.62056833558864, 130.74483412322274, 131.54998225062121, 138.28522752999774, 145.41515391579901, 133.11588017118402, 136.61257269454444, 131.90849558630191, 130.82149377593359, 130.64663927691043, 146.2826204238921, 130.07538080835855]
134.839125583

MPC 3.5:
[104.08320509418944, 96.374127198917463, 96.428490182802989, 89.095349662761805, 105.02893366538375, 113.92516976007244, 105.75187446504992, 105.73797839933536, 102.13470231014838, 93.826887966804975, 104.39861955628595, 112.882774566474, 85.53660709375859]
101.318635324

MPC 3.75:
[111.86572565667285, 103.32649526387009, 103.47477318889641, 95.61590344337948, 111.96635725605614, 122.49628791308284, 113.40023965763196, 112.96190528939353, 109.34537031240218, 100.80796680497926, 111.25219391947411, 120.69965317919076, 91.486785812482822]
108.514069331

MPC 4.0:
[130.58279649774477, 120.41878213802435, 120.96877454299256, 113.10926517571885, 130.44627575277337, 141.31561792666366, 132.78717261055635, 132.33976183882584, 128.62861078069244, 119.78622406639003, 128.71677896466721, 141.75830443159924, 104.83031069562826]
126.715368151

MPC 4.25:
[141.70481294773148, 131.43117726657644, 131.14464454976303, 124.11927582534611, 140.28372198324655, 152.76966953372568, 145.55311840228245, 143.60095264469678, 139.48503098979529, 130.90556016597509, 137.18757600657355, 154.22782273603082, 112.72635688754468]
137.410438123

MPC 4.5:
[149.30865481560096, 139.85277401894453, 138.79718348002709, 131.13411430599928, 148.34494000452798, 161.36482571299231, 154.64586590584881, 152.25969537524233, 147.4974519501659, 139.43153526970954, 144.04917009038618, 163.62589595375724, 118.75149848776464]
145.376152931

WMA "85 to 145":
[117.0812523215707, 108.98918809201624, 104.50249153689911, 99.292048278310247, 111.91293864613991, 126.21773426889995, 131.27366619115548, 128.46662974245362, 120.24555186877856, 106.5540663900415, 111.70987674609695, 132.87132947976878, 98.214209513335163]
115.349747553

EDIT: Added WMA results.
  • Last Edit: 08 July, 2003, 06:45:14 AM by Moitah

  • Cobra
  • [*][*][*][*]
  • Banned
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #12
Quote
Quote
1 - Encode one (or more  ) of your albums with MPC 1.14 and/or Ogg Vorbis Pre-CVS (available at RareWares)

Pre-CVS? I only see Post 1.0 CVS at http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/ogg.html.

Yeah, "oggdropXPd V.1.7 Post 1.0 CVS"

I suggest doing such thing: encode files multiple times until reaching 128kbps averange for every file in every format and use these files in test, don`t compare quality settings.

  • ErikS
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #13
Quote
I suggest doing such thing: encode files multiple times until reaching 128kbps averange for every file in every format and use these files in test, don`t compare quality settings.

To make it fair you mean? But it's not really representative of how the codecs are used (or even should be used), is it?

  • zegilles
  • [*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #14
Wouldn't it be easier to rip each album all at once to get the album average bitrate, or do i miss something?

  • Moitah
  • [*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #15
M2M - The Big Room
Pop

OGG 3.5:
[119.96780720338984, 115.08382842963489, 118.50313964686998, 116.41076725130358, 111.982506452538, 119.79165186500889, 117.44527491408934, 111.64796895213455, 119.01125682285391, 116.9278226737474, 117.84851411589895]
116.936911751

OGG 3.75:
[124.01853813559323, 118.36462247429989, 122.50320385232746, 120.06427845872552, 115.30805850301118, 123.54339149514158, 121.0689003436426, 114.91979301423028, 122.60776919259942, 120.84996536596628, 121.25112927191678]
120.578023497

OGG 4.0:
[127.77225635593221, 121.46075859624247, 126.212455858748, 123.84260851899505, 118.83957556638946, 126.77180022986104, 124.27641752577318, 118.22895213454076, 126.25268306514495, 124.53955206649735, 124.32138187221398]
124.038307743

OGG 4.25:
[133.8151588983051, 126.89644806806098, 132.1022407704655, 129.49086476603236, 124.28956122741613, 132.5573398808902, 130.06838487972507, 123.43730918499352, 131.54078117246758, 130.48598476102515, 130.18270430906389]
129.716278958

OGG 4.5:
[139.73863347457629, 132.14037575327899, 137.87318138041735, 134.88099139974267, 129.48888729566963, 138.24276460140007, 135.82289518900345, 128.56921086675291, 136.7532147160984, 136.32980835834678, 135.73823179791975]
135.248480514

MPC 3.5:
[104.61762711864407, 91.664686281460476, 100.80554735152489, 95.461556172546892, 89.448695153427025, 107.31718733674643, 101.01082474226804, 91.457697283311774, 92.108655277521805, 95.883814361579311, 110.34953937592869]
98.585316547

MPC 3.75:
[111.9663559322034, 97.778263027295282, 108.11988443017657, 102.05550213313468, 95.585661026670493, 114.82223383136559, 108.65257731958762, 97.544631306597665, 98.263557099312393, 103.64239205726159, 117.78900445765231]
105.521064872

MPC 4.0:
[131.19902542372884, 114.55444168734492, 128.75356661316212, 119.77994176203697, 113.03057069113852, 133.53150141051091, 128.99243986254294, 113.40108667529108, 114.36807258807684, 125.86598937889633, 135.89830609212481]
123.9894907

MPC 4.25:
[142.54398305084746, 123.00846508330379, 141.60647191011236, 129.68223742127716, 123.19632922282766, 144.29865217845577, 141.20635738831612, 122.28900388098319, 122.9039200396966, 139.34426229508196, 146.7305794947994]
134.668838076

MPC 4.5:
[151.55618644067798, 129.79992910315491, 151.83994863563404, 137.44392225909121, 131.05070260969316, 152.92094869919549, 150.46546391752577, 129.71705045278136, 130.05866591054087, 149.51152158854768, 154.95173848439822]
143.09652234

WMA "85 to 145":
[111.57098516949152, 99.671506557958168, 117.59657142857144, 112.90080585088373, 100.40678233438486, 129.32545188590535, 113.76387457044673, 105.7503104786546, 97.93865456865386, 118.98088201339182, 150.48031203566123]
114.564340014

  • emtee
  • [*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #16
Code: [Select]
D:\HA.org\bitrate>bitrate.exe D:\temp\Tool-Lateralus-2001\wavlist.txt D:\temp\Tool-Lateralus-2001\vorbis\3.5\ogglist.txt > D:\temp\Tool-Lateralus-2001\vorbis\3.5\results.txt

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "<string>", line 10, in ?
 File "wave.pyc", line 483, in open
 File "wave.pyc", line 159, in __init__
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '01-tool-the_grudge.wav'


w00t? 
  • Last Edit: 08 July, 2003, 09:02:35 AM by emtee

  • Moitah
  • [*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #17
Quote
D:\HA.org\bitrate>bitrate.exe D:\temp\Tool-Lateralus-2001\wavlist.txt D:\temp\Tool-Lateralus-2001\vorbis\3.5\ogglist.txt > D:\temp\Tool-Lateralus-2001\vorbis\3.5\results.txt

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "<string>", line 10, in ?
 File "wave.pyc", line 483, in open
 File "wave.pyc", line 159, in __init__
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '01-tool-the_grudge.wav'

The bitrate tool tries to open the files from the working directory.  You'll have to run it from the directory with the songs in it.  I'd suggest moving the OGGs into the same directory as the WAVs, and running it like:

Code: [Select]
D:\HA.org\bitrate\bitrate.exe wavlist.txt ogglist.txt > results.txt
  • Last Edit: 08 July, 2003, 09:22:41 AM by Moitah

  • elmar3rd
  • [*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #18
Quote
The bitrate tool tries to open the files from the working directory.  You'll have to run it from the directory with the songs in it.  I'd suggest moving the OGGs into the same directory as the WAVs

Grey+/Grey-/F6 ... Welcome to the world of NC-Clones.

Cradle of Filth - Cruelty and the Beast
Heavy Metal

Ogg Vorbis:
--------------

q3.50

[104.59765252160454, 123.39300690713739, 121.77336129091074, 119.22189309897709, 96.732883610451296, 118.88476230018682, 121.94555429313422, 119.26377196690621, 100.79407544549872, 119.72747116237798]
118.193383851

q3.75

[107.27292660905455, 126.55782041442825, 124.7287081775914, 122.43654804783172, 99.857729216152023, 121.66653518787626, 125.32131147540983, 122.45008756567425, 104.419115945383, 122.96496894409938]
121.35529156

q4.00

[109.499110021927, 128.94074597083653, 127.07260461300028, 125.01368678864716, 103.85615201900238, 124.0310981938966, 128.25612075961695, 125.11146808382148, 107.77398750289285, 125.65126885536824]
124.019663532

q4.25

[114.43361279504708, 135.02582348426708, 132.92653842647462, 130.88168851750467, 108.38075059382423, 129.896854888935, 134.51374776821945, 130.88827827767378, 112.3810229113631, 131.59311446317659]
129.8077045

q4.50

[118.9753643750806, 140.95126323867996, 138.61039292551737, 136.65446477452818, 112.55287410926366, 135.67361428274859, 140.56725206946925, 136.53531010326711, 116.93473732932192, 137.43059449866902]
135.446583242


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Musepack (--xlevel)
-----------------------

q3.50

[84.682574487295241, 106.87444973138911, 107.9939465767162, 103.92044950295346, 72.052674584323029, 99.73863400456716, 107.01818535951956, 106.20303158403286, 94.096366581809761, 100.34271517302574]
102.507718085

q3.75

[90.903134270604937, 115.20029470452802, 115.68799343604705, 111.47403544157902, 76.688266033254152, 107.35017645837658, 115.21324460314884, 113.74097469653965, 100.11108539689887, 107.92440106477373]
110.022938397

q4.00

[107.15366954727202, 134.99360859554875, 134.82286443613822, 130.54914277481632, 87.926194774346783, 127.35569856757317, 134.68896607693554, 132.89198623105261, 116.24623929645915, 129.22803904170365]
129.068806135

q4.25

[115.87978846897975, 147.33900230237916, 146.9766068009846, 142.19196081256302, 94.025501187648445, 138.64297280465016, 147.40970621652329, 144.11797813877649, 124.79944457301549, 141.0808873114463]
140.452892961

q4.50

[123.51874113246485, 156.28763161933998, 156.15162731333757, 151.5627143062959, 98.926517814726836, 147.47083246834129, 156.73406265216684, 153.08388187692492, 132.25420041657023, 150.32596273291927]
149.28871647

  • Moitah
  • [*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #19
I made a batch file to automate the process:

Code: [Select]
@ECHO OFF
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\oggenc\oggenc2.exe" --quality 3.5 "%%~fI" --output="%%~dpnI.350.ogg"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\oggenc\oggenc2.exe" --quality 3.75 "%%~fI" --output="%%~dpnI.375.ogg"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\oggenc\oggenc2.exe" --quality 4 "%%~fI" --output="%%~dpnI.400.ogg"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\oggenc\oggenc2.exe" --quality 4.25 "%%~fI" --output="%%~dpnI.425.ogg"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\oggenc\oggenc2.exe" --quality 4.5 "%%~fI" --output="%%~dpnI.450.ogg"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\mppenc\mppenc.exe" --quality 3.5 "%%~fI" "%%~dpnI.350.mpc"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\mppenc\mppenc.exe" --quality 3.75 "%%~fI" "%%~dpnI.375.mpc"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\mppenc\mppenc.exe" --quality 4 "%%~fI" "%%~dpnI.400.mpc"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\mppenc\mppenc.exe" --quality 4.25 "%%~fI" "%%~dpnI.425.mpc"
FOR %%I IN (*.wav) DO "D:\Programs\mppenc\mppenc.exe" --quality 4.5 "%%~fI" "%%~dpnI.450.mpc"
dir /b /on *.wav > wavlist.txt
dir /b /on *.350.ogg > ogg350.txt
dir /b /on *.375.ogg > ogg375.txt
dir /b /on *.400.ogg > ogg400.txt
dir /b /on *.425.ogg > ogg425.txt
dir /b /on *.450.ogg > ogg450.txt
dir /b /on *.350.mpc > mpc350.txt
dir /b /on *.375.mpc > mpc375.txt
dir /b /on *.400.mpc > mpc400.txt
dir /b /on *.425.mpc > mpc425.txt
dir /b /on *.450.mpc > mpc450.txt
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt ogg350.txt > "Results OGG 3.5.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt ogg375.txt > "Results OGG 3.75.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt ogg400.txt > "Results OGG 4.0.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt ogg425.txt > "Results OGG 4.25.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt ogg450.txt > "Results OGG 4.5.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt mpc350.txt > "Results MPC 3.5.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt mpc375.txt > "Results MPC 3.75.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt mpc400.txt > "Results MPC 4.0.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt mpc425.txt > "Results MPC 4.25.txt"
"D:\Programs\bitrate\bitrate.exe" wavlist.txt mpc450.txt > "Results MPC 4.5.txt"


It encodes all the files to OGG/MPC, makes a list of the WAVs/OGGs/MPCs, and runs the bitrate tool.  You will have to change the paths for oggenc2.exe, mppenc.exe, and bitrate.exe.  You'll also have to clean up after it when it's done.  WMA will have to be done manually if you want to do it.
  • Last Edit: 08 July, 2003, 10:27:15 AM by Moitah

  • ff123
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer (Donating)
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #20
I suggest that there's enough data to suggest that ogg should be using 4.25, and mpc should be using 4.00

ff123

  • Moitah
  • [*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #21
I'm bored, so I did one more:
Mudvayne - L.D. 50
Metal

OGG 3.5:
[124.07335689045935, 116.37573711085487, 119.15484325466713, 115.51351019953182, 119.22515194443176, 108.6311555338859, 115.63891663140076, 113.87390828366379, 131.11279948750803, 122.10749488054607, 119.24322164156163, 128.4654750082754, 122.02961715833393, 120.8590925387404, 120.72890061565523, 121.99174019147736, 109.60206231454006]
119.224088159

OGG 3.75:
[127.1737809187279, 119.10499094053696, 121.97903688421476, 118.40987626797458, 122.44913403098298, 111.06172598732326, 118.29674143038511, 116.78022138425983, 134.61078795643817, 125.48858703071672, 122.39051132288145, 132.14180734856006, 125.52205548642119, 124.02891287893877, 123.93980650835532, 125.387985733058, 112.11761127596441]
122.326998269

OGG 4.0:
[129.98855123674912, 121.48166694119584, 124.32958285110449, 120.96641400066882, 125.24629164191381, 112.52120916626036, 120.80176047397376, 119.438973360905, 137.40053811659192, 128.12572013651877, 124.94747412644737, 135.04369414101291, 128.23990923065659, 126.5913237461658, 126.59795954265611, 128.2317251736437, 114.21169139465876]
124.926852374

OGG 4.25:
[136.04113074204946, 127.17306868720144, 130.02072158204598, 126.46777393824546, 131.40397568889094, 118.67040468064359, 126.12124418112569, 125.11616591655516, 143.81411915438824, 134.34630716723549, 130.67045803873347, 142.22926183382987, 134.57607788595271, 132.8057204318209, 132.87912049252418, 134.50794067955695, 120.29643916913948]
130.927054681

OGG 4.5:
[142.06289752650176, 132.66987316751772, 135.41380767876012, 131.86456359380225, 137.45727733857333, 124.73373963920038, 131.25016504443505, 130.69059725094272, 149.92942985265856, 140.54354948805459, 136.23326160467261, 149.05375703409464, 140.74640216675206, 138.86750587579175, 139.1004397537379, 140.80486202365307, 126.35350148367954]
136.798144222

MPC 3.5:
[101.82134275618374, 100.46773183989458, 100.85506969254767, 95.388028090513885, 99.46405885847463, 120.71262798634812, 91.397850190435889, 93.041430482909618, 96.499679692504813, 104.88163822525597, 105.53769853468593, 121.82562065541211, 107.02434668033086, 103.57601880253357, 106.41153913808267, 107.44659282898442, 97.116854599406537]
102.101021262

MPC 3.75:
[108.86812720848057, 107.95651457749958, 107.89275901977557, 102.20425816519898, 106.69597404377829, 126.17493905411995, 97.192788827761319, 100.01099622916921, 103.24704676489431, 112.58096928327645, 113.18618710933497, 129.36908308507117, 115.02862162360002, 111.28043660120305, 114.83553210202285, 116.05594143044866, 103.87691394658755]
109.500192581

MPC 4.0:
[127.09342756183746, 129.4056992258277, 127.05664972575856, 121.35061866012707, 133.21628661518076, 138.30131643100927, 113.80590774439273, 122.74175891010827, 120.09194106342089, 138.32895563139931, 131.93105851009324, 146.29592850049653, 138.11946416806967, 135.55740748117756, 138.62360598065084, 138.48334897691009, 120.83448071216618]
130.655272628

MPC 4.25:
[136.68240282685514, 140.10785702520178, 137.10083027222862, 131.48420465945824, 143.25191244344924, 145.42350073135057, 121.91035124841304, 134.76277825082107, 129.52404868673926, 149.00412286689416, 142.97727226150218, 157.3079112876531, 148.64636556621039, 146.25745130064138, 150.16063324538257, 150.40420499342969, 130.81228486646884]
141.196304005

MPC 4.5:
[143.71703180212012, 148.33015977598419, 144.60842348915611, 139.60289822762235, 150.5080656217155, 151.3690882496343, 128.27253491324589, 144.63826785062648, 136.32153747597695, 156.66692150170647, 151.15343785223894, 165.84521681562396, 156.29725495937339, 153.96875273871649, 158.24379947229551, 158.8807208560165, 138.62100890207716]
149.075316591

WMA "85 to 145":
[127.51625441696112, 116.6849777631362, 115.63376440396516, 113.2090179467172, 122.00388429374401, 76.058556801560215, 101.47122302158273, 112.51548473421725, 131.11218449711723, 133.67741979522182, 121.65715749564504, 118.26885137371731, 131.93743503403849, 124.92435963829024, 130.78490765171503, 131.5850009386146, 121.89387240356085]
121.314912366

  • Mac
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #22
I had a little go to help out, but sadly my ape's are taking so long to decode I couldn't do my whole collection...  also (blah blah another excuse) I only tried doing the 2 values ff123 suggested, to help verify they are good...

I'm not sure if I did MPC correctly, it claims it's using 'radio' profile, which I guess is exactly q4, but I'm not sure.  It also complained about internal clippings (why?) so I was forced to use --xlevel, hope that doesn't mess the test up
(how super-n00b am I btw?)



Going on the numbers I've seen - ff123's q settings sound about right, within 3kbs most of the time!


Venetian Snares - Find Candace : 'Aphexy' & ambient electronic
OGG -q 4.25 : Average 128.73
MPC -q 4.0 : Average 123.72
[span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%']ogg:[129.83661202185792, 132.70435153280522, 135.54699204433717, 127.14944213803841, 119.40124586217274, 122.58551993150033, 131.05744884106792]

mpc:[118.39478772593527, 135.18689922205249, 130.69455618128183, 133.64898806434871, 101.10052362323202, 121.21004661782894, 129.90372567751018][/span]


Vanessa Mae - Storm : String Orchestral / Pop
OGG -q 4.5 : Average 128.48
MPC -q 4.0 : Average 131.19
[span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%']ogg:[120.43664036076663, 134.76874328678841, 131.37915917266187, 134.66908178625187, 132.28374384236454, 121.074147933285, 133.33817008996775, 124.16907520125662, 125.81862551114628, 128.99203133441384, 127.41270644249369, 135.11637931034483, 131.12005215481747, 118.1494082602045]

mpc:[108.51290868094702, 131.54930182599355, 140.5997751798561, 143.64391369794279, 133.79060302361137, 121.33241479332851, 137.70540824987268, 125.5525623404673, 129.57298509431473, 133.90156672069151, 133.81413480136888, 141.53800766283524, 138.82827340104311, 115.03015860236697][/span]


KLF - The White Room : Dance
OGG -q 4.5 : Average 129.86
MPC -q 4.0 : Average 131.59
[span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%']ogg:[125.09836134453784, 135.94693500738552, 131.45259511289825, 135.77350588235294, 128.66134281581486, 134.8198953386956, 135.72875449355044, 128.11792233654165, 119.7523926920537]

mpc:[122.38356302521009, 145.77090103397342, 127.21588617383236, 147.96084705882353, 120.91764705882353, 143.53542009884677, 139.54337914992598, 136.58644540325255, 110.08714946070879][/span]

ps. sorry for the horrible formatting )
  • Last Edit: 08 July, 2003, 03:42:13 PM by Mac
< w o g o n e . c o m / l o l >

  • boojum
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Members (Donating)
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #23
Bob Dylan - MTV Unplugged

Folk/Folk-Rock

Ogg 3.5

[117.03421671490594, 115.48513982224149, 113.91394260376894, 114.65975903614458, 120.04311763489767, 116.21931775110549, 115.12688594164456, 116.9888062755798, 116.82031451612903, 114.6826482357221, 110.77447816972018]
115.431764095

Ogg 3.75

[120.35323806078148, 118.8752438760026, 116.95562261362237, 118.05718875502008, 123.67737854041764, 119.44210991787745, 118.52618037135278, 120.25878581173261, 120.45612096774192, 117.87004728992362, 114.15615714155501]
118.788989721


Ogg 4.00

[123.37681801736613, 121.95026013440278, 119.65163197438109, 120.99272518646011, 126.86396526772793, 122.34902084649401, 121.64805835543767, 123.17740109140517, 123.83595967741935, 120.63540196435068, 117.20362774587549]
121.795352508


Ogg 4.25

[128.78390014471779, 127.4819531758075, 124.90523463480724, 126.46269650028685, 132.92539177175937, 127.82952621604549, 127.27812732095489, 128.89958390177352, 129.38707258064514, 125.92793015642053, 122.62085498131438]
127.324493822


Ogg 4.5

[134.05080499276411, 132.96103403425104, 129.96724966128835, 131.7800344234079, 138.9244738474261, 133.21629816803537, 132.84054111405834, 134.53901091405186, 134.79999193548386, 131.09305201891598, 127.75965727827911]
132.725627661
Nov schmoz kapop.

  • ff123
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer (Donating)
Variable Bitrate Settings Comparision
Reply #24
I think wma9 needs more data.  It's pretty labor intensive, though, since I can't figure out a way to batch encode using Windows Media Encoder.  Maybe dBPowerAmp would work better.

ff123