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Topic: Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio? (Read 8579 times) previous topic - next topic
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Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #25
I don't see the problem here why a traditional encoder should be used. Wavpack allows very easy lossless restoration inc all metadata / tags. If the recovery files are there it happens by default. I've even zipped them into archives and moved them to old hdd's+ burned them to dvd. In my example all it takes is to unpack a zip archive into the needed folder and it becomes lossless. So you are ripping and encoding once only. Software player support isn't an issue on pc's and smart phones if needed. Even though twice the bitrate is needed say 300k wavpack vs 150k vorbis -  this is an 'acceptable' bitrate and wasn't a major issue even a decade ago.
wavpack -b3.63hhcs.5

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #26
Also even the slowest wavpack lossy modes -h and -hh [not using -x] are faster than the other coders by a long shot if encode time is important.
wavpack -b3.63hhcs.5

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #27
I'm looking for a codec that is slightly lossy and doesn't lowpass the audio as MP3 does. I came across ADPCM and found it good but it reduces quality too much (16 bit to 4 bit).

I wonder if there is a better alternative to ADPCM with more options for quality?
Any input would be greatly appreciated!

NICAM

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #28
...or just take your files, apply ReplayGain, convert them to 32kHz 14-bit, and FLAC them. That'll halve the bitrate of most pop music.


Well, you did say any input would be greatly appreciated, and you've already had the sensible answers. Though ironically my two suggestions would probably suit your purposes just fine (if NICAM existed in SW of course  ).

Cheers,
David.

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #29
Thanks everybody for the input! I think I'll just stick with WavPack and see what happens, it's quite promising.

While we are at ADPCM, it would be still useful for videos where I wouldn't like to use MP3. I wonder if someone could help with FFmpeg command line parameters, i.e. how to encode a PCM wav file to ADPCM... and perhaps some quality settings?

On another note, an idea: the LossyFLAC/LossyWAV idea of pre-processing could perhaps be made for MP3 too (if LAME doesn't do some pre-processing automatically).



Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #32
While we are at ADPCM, it would be still useful for videos where I wouldn't like to use MP3.

May I ask you why?
If you hate tiny A/V sync issue due to codec delay of MDCT coders (FAQ no.2 on http://lame.sourceforge.net/tech-FAQ.txt), then you can still pick Wavpack lossy or lossy FLAC, which can be multiplexed into MKV and are natively gap-free.


Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #34
@hightype: Do you realize that, while you are looking for ways to improve your experience (and here I am specifically talking about feelings, not about objective measurements), you show evidences of not realizing, or not weighting in the implications of your goals.

You were looking at ADPCM, when that implied WAV, and that implied problems with tagging, problems with software recognizing the wav format but not the ADPCM codec, possible problems with stream damaging... only because you cared about the visual aspect of listening to music.

In this case, you were given a solution that, at least, is reasonable, more compatible and that is meant for a different purpose than yours, but at least fulfills your goal.


Now, you ask again about ADPCM, but this time for use in video.
If you want to go back 15 or more years, to the origins of the .AVI video format, then you could try that approach, but in this case, the "visuals" of the music are even less important than with audio so, which are you goals now?


Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #35
@nu774 and everybody:
With ADPCM I was looking for a format that is widely supported and doesn't require to install new codecs even on older computers/OSes.

Anyway thanks for the answers this far but I'm kind of bored of having to explain everything, I'll try this on a more lo-fi topic/forum and ask only hi-fi questions here.

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #36
With ADPCM I was looking for a format that is widely supported and doesn't require to install new codecs even on older computers/OSes.

These days, something like H264 + AAC stored in MP4 is way, way more popular than ADPCM and should be widely compatible. What video codec are you trying to use with ADPCM? Cinepak?

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #37
@nu774 and everybody:
With ADPCM I was looking for a format that is widely supported and doesn't require to install new codecs even on older computers/OSes.


MP3. 

Anyway thanks for the answers this far but I'm kind of bored of having to explain everything, I'll try this on a more lo-fi topic/forum and ask only hi-fi questions here.


Alternatively, you could pay slightly more attention to the replies you are getting, in which case people wouldn't be asking you to explain what the heck you're talking about.

 

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #38
While we are at ADPCM, it would be still useful for videos where I wouldn't like to use MP3. I wonder if someone could help with FFmpeg command line parameters, i.e. how to encode a PCM wav file to ADPCM... and perhaps some quality settings?

Hope you're still around. I have actually been working with ADPCM a lot recently (for an industrial application) and was able to use avconv (which should be the same as ffmpeg) with this command:

Code: [Select]
avconv -i input.wav -acodec adpcm_ima_wav -trellis 4 output.wav


The "trellis" parameter controls the amount of "lookahead" done. It can improve quality, but can get really slow at higher values (I think it accepts 1-16).

I have also just finished up my own IMA ADPCM encoder / decoder which incorporates the same "dynamic noise shaping" as WavPack lossy, plus my own version of "lookahead" (which can also get very slow). I am attaching a binary if you'd like to try it out. I have been getting very high quality output from it, and it's a little easier to use than ffmpeg because it only does one thing (well, two).

BUT, as others have said, ADPCM is not going to give you transparent results with 44.1 kHz source...it's easy to hear artifacts from time to time and there's no way to fix them. My version is slightly better than what's out there (I think), but it's still not good enough for serious listening. The only good thing about ADPCM is that everything seems to play it!

edit: fixed "codebox"...thanks lvqcl! 


Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #40
Quote
I'm looking for a codec that is slightly lossy and doesn't lowpass the audio as MP3 does...

...I was experimenting with bitrates higher than 320 kbps but it has compatibility issues.
What's your problem with lossless?    A typical FLAC or ALAC is about twice 320kbps.   

What's the point of using something in-between?    What's the point of trying to get closer and closer to (mathematical) perfection without going all the way to perfection?  (You'll already have audible  perfection with most files at 320kbps, or V0, or lower.)

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #41
What's the point of using something in-between?


Exactly...
Even though twice the bitrate is needed say 300k wavpack vs  150k vorbis -  this is an 'acceptable' bitrate and wasn't a major issue  even a decade ago.

I imagine that after a decade another doubling in storage requirements shouldn't be a big deal.


Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #42
@bryant:

Sure, thanks very much for the help! I'll try avconv.
I have also tried your ADPCM encoder and it works very fine! I can only tell this at the moment as I'm not familiar with the inner workings of the ADPCM format. I'm aware of the quality limitations but as you said everything plays it (there is even a downloadable 'codec' for Amiga!)

@DVDdoug, greynol:

Could you please tell why I shouldn't do it?

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #43
Could you please tell why I shouldn't do it?

I think the idea is to sprinkle certain threads with comments like that so that someone else doesn't accidentally stumble across this and mistakenly think that any of this is a good idea.

Unless you understand exactly what you are doing, or are just experimenting with different things for your own amusement, using irrational codecs like ADPCM, lossyWAV, or WavPack lossy makes no sense.

Sometimes it comes off a little like badgering, but I would not take it personally.

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #44
Sure, thanks very much for the help! I'll try avconv.

What I meant is that the command line I suggested should work for ffmpeg too...probably no need to have both installed.

Slightly lossy codec that doesn't lowpass audio?

Reply #45
Could you please tell why I shouldn't do it?
Shouldn't do what?!?

To quote saratoga:
Alternatively,  you could pay slightly more attention to the replies you are getting,  in which case people wouldn't be asking you to explain what the heck  you're talking about.


I think the idea is to sprinkle certain threads with comments like that so that someone else doesn't accidentally stumble across this and mistakenly think that any of this is a good idea.
Thank you, David.  This is absolutely 100% spot-on!