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Topic: My SONY XB700 is cursed! (Read 3895 times) previous topic - next topic
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My SONY XB700 is cursed!

WARNING : Long post alert



I am having a particular problem with these headphones that made me expend so much money trying to make it work in the way that everybody on reviews describes on the internet.

Let me explain the situation.

I am a basshead and i have been doing it on in-ear hifi phones but i always wanted to make the "jump" to real headphones on the expectation of getting more fidelity and higher quality audio in general and of course more BASS! So about a litle more than a year ago after doing some research on entry level equipment and all that stuff i decided to get a sony MDR XB700 because it seemed the kind of phone that would suits my needs. But It was in the end of 2014 and they were discontinued already and i knew it so i was ok with getting a used phone as long as it is in a good condition..but after a month or 2 a XB700 in mint condition of almost no use appeared on the internet in my city and near to me! , i live and brazil and its needless to say that everything was twice as expensive compared to US and EUROPE at the time as "normally" and as always been sadly.

So i got it for around 200U$ it really seemed in very mint condition...it didnt had any problems apparently, i came home plugged in my laptop and the sound was.....extremely medium frequency and pitchy ...no bass at ALL ...went to a mini panic attack tried some extreme equalization and no results....thought that it was my laptop maybe, all that stuff about low/high impedance and frequencies that i still dont know much about..

Then i plugged to my phone a Samsung Galaxy S3 and at the time it was stock (i mean ROMs and Audio MODs i will talk about in a bit).
So i plugged on it and the sound was definitely better than the computer and had a litle bit of bass....but overall EXTREMELY underwhelming

Since then i tried many things to make it sound like people was describing on the internet wiith litle to no results. I am still considering getting a portable AMP as my last resort but....im in total disbelief because recently on my "journey" to make it work i discovered that my phone Galaxy S3 is a little "hidden powerhouse" of audio player.

After doing some research i discovered that it has a very considerable sound processor and with extensive and deep ROM and Kernel modification is able to reproduct a mind  boggling sound!!

Comparing the overall sound of before and after my phone as a audio player has improve waaaay beyond 100%, with overclocking  and tuning abilities

To be sincere in my opinion it surpassed my high end sound laptop that has Onkyo and SoundBlaster stuff built in it

It dramatically improved the XB700 but....i feel like still very underwhelming,... It has very crisp and clear mids and highs unlike the reviews say
It has some bass in it but is not deep at all..it has almost no punch and there isnt any Sub effect at all.

Comparing it to any quality in ear phone is NOT viable... The first "highysh end" Phillips in Ear heaphone i had that costed around 30-40U$ sounds  way beyond in bass punchs and subs than the XB700, any other in ear phone i had after that Phillips phone is un comparable in bass... I kinda feel the quality in the mids and highs on the XB700 but the bass is just not there almost, no subs and punches at all is being a killer for me and i feel like somehow it isnt delivering the bass it suppose to in it...maybe a mechanical failure on the 50mm drivers? The cable seems to be so fine to me, ii even tried to bend it and cause problems that would have happened if the cable was the problem and no noise or distortion happened on the sound at all....the input jack seems solid i can move it around while plugged and seems ok....

This post might seen bizarre comparing to any other post about the XB700, the most heartbreaking thing is that in the reviews people that are also bassheads said they had a great experience even when they plugged it into a device that is not "powerful" as a CPU with a dedicated soundboard or DAC or any other of these stuffs....just normal un-modified smarphones as players and things like that...
I feel like i am pushing it and it is not responding as suppose to..

II gotta confess that i am tired and extremely disappointed with it...200U$ for an entry-mid level basshead full size phone that perform worse in bass than 40 bucks earbuds

Does anyone have a suggestion about the phone? Maybe a setup for try ?
Any technical info i can gather to report here? If someone actually is experienced with sonys XB700s please tell me your thoughts
Also... I dont mind opening it up and post photos of its drivers to see if there is a faliure i just  would need someone here that knows the insides of the XB700 for aa feedback

My SONY XB700 is cursed!

Reply #1 –
I don't know, it sounds like cable damage to me. In my experience when you have a half broken cable, the sound will first lose some bass, then get progressively worse until it breaks completely and no sound comes through at all.
Try examining the plug closely, maybe you'll find some clues.

My SONY XB700 is cursed!

Reply #2 –
WARNING -  Long reply 

I'd say it's unlikely to be damage or deterioration.  Usually when a driver goes, it will start to buzz or it will quit completely.  And, it would be unusual for both sides to deteriorate identically.

Is it better if you push the headphones against your head to make a tighter seal?  If that helps, try bending the headband a it to make them fit tighter.  (at your own risk!  )

It could still be an impedance issue.    The headphones are rated at 24 Ohms, which is on the low side for headphones.    (The idea is for the driving device to have much lower output impedance than the headphones.)   

Have you confirmed the output impedance of the phone?  It might be a hard spec to find, because although they might specify the recommended headphone impedance, they may not give the effective output impedance.

I'd be surprised if those mods can actually improve frequency response or distortion (and there shouldn't be anything wrong with either of those anyway, unless there are frequency response issues related to impedance).    Impedance and power output are limited by the hardware, so they can't be fixed with a software/firmware mod.

What happens is this:    The impedance of headphones (and speakers) is not constant over the frequency range.  This particular headphone is rated at 24 Ohms, but that's the "nominal" impedance and it will vary over the frequency range.    If the phone's or computer's impedance is low compared to headphone impedance, frequency response remains flat (or as flat as normal for the particular headphones).  Headphones are tested/specified with low-impedance amplifiers.      But, if the phone/computer impedance is about the same as the headphone (or more), the varying headphone impedance "interacts" with the phone/computer impedance and the frequency response is affected.  Some headphones have a mid-bass rise in impedance and some listeners may like  the resulting mid-bass boost when listening on a "cheap" device.

And, higher impedance headphones are more immune to the problem.  But, higher impedance requires more voltage  for the same power  (Watts or milliwatts), so as a generalization lower impedance headphones tend to be louder (given the same drive voltage).  Some headphones are more efficient than others so lower impedance is not always louder.

There is a simple impedance experiment you can do.  You'll need two things...  You'll need a stereo system or "powered" computer speakers that can put out bass and you'll need a Y-Adapter (AKA "splitter") so you can connect two things. 

- Plug your phone or computer into your stereo or powered speakers, which will be high impedance and unaffected by the impedance of the phone/computer.   

- While listening to some music, plug-in the headphones too (but just keep listening to the speakers).  If the sound to the speakers changes, that's an impedance issue and the impedance of the headphones is affecting the signal.    If the sound does not change, you don't have an impedance problem.

A headphone amplifier could solve an impedance problem, and/or with more power available it would allow you to boost/EQ the bass without clipping (distortion).  You don't need a super-expensive headphone amp, just one with low output impedance and sufficient output power.    I don't have a headphone amp, so I'll let others make recommendations, or you can search this forum for previous recommendations.


P.S.
If you boost the bass digitally (with software), at high volumes you might clip (distort) your digital-to-analog converter and/or the analog output circuit.    The solution is to turn-up the bass, then turn-down the (digital) volume in your phone or computer, then turn-up the (analog) volume control on your headphone amp.

My SONY XB700 is cursed!

Reply #3 –
XB700 has a bit below ~30 ohms impedance and fairly flat and is quite sensitive, so should sound ok with most sources that have a headphone jack.

---

@OP: Have you removed the pads and done some visual inspection? Afaik the drivers are removable with a few screws so you can also check the back.
To get bass with headphones it typically requires seal. Either internally there is something wrong or the headphones do not seal to your head.

"I hear it when I see it."

My SONY XB700 is cursed!

Reply #4 –
Quote
To get bass with headphones it typically requires seal. Either internally there is something wrong or the headphones do not seal to your head.
lisanty, Do you wear glasses?  If so try listening with them off.

My SONY XB700 is cursed!

Reply #5 –
Quote from: ChronoSphere on
I don't know, it sounds like cable damage to me. In my experience when you have a half broken cable, the sound will first lose some bass, then get progressively worse until it breaks completely and no sound comes through at all.
Try examining the plug closely, maybe you'll find some clues.

Thanks for the reply man , i had my experience with broken/damaged cables too and plugs and to me it always affected the sound with somewhat distinct distortion and cuts in the signal from one or both of the speakers...also it behave very unstably and inconsistent since the cable or plug might move due to my own movement, personally i thought it could be a problem on the cable or plug before too, even tho it didnt had the characteristics of the faliures i was used to...couple weeks actually after i first got it and identified that there was a problem i searched for someone who could do this job in my city and only found a couple of places that deal specifically with headphones and it was not near from me too, so after searching  on the web on a brazilian site about headphones there was people saying that they simply sent their heaphones to one of those small local electronical technical assistent shop to do it so i did since it was fast , i went there told what was happening for the attendant and he said he would investigate and return to me in 24hours... 24hours later i went there and he said that it was working just fine , they said they tested it and there was nothing wrong with it... even tho i told them specifically that the phone sounds good in everything but the bass and that this is a high end BASS phone from sony's lineup it suppose to have a bass beyond normal, i also told them that i suspected that could be the cable and by what i read online in cases like these would be necessary to replace the entire cable

Honestly i think he told and handed it to the technician and the technician just plugged into a stereo to see if it works(as normally) and the sound it would make and then sounded "good as any other working heaphone"... i cant blame them for not being a bassheads their definition of bass standards as for other people that arent even into these stuff are "normal"  or expect that they was personally used to hi fi equipment that are above the average in audio performed by average phones ... afterall they were just a neighborhood shop that works mostly with TVs and old receivers and things like that...

but like i said , i  even tried to bend and twist the cables in every single way while listening to music and it didnt affected the sound at all ...tried to rotate the plug also and bend the cable near of the plug, or near to the connection on the heaphone and performed totally solid, not a single distortion :/

but even after all wont discart the cables/plug

Quote from: DVDdoug on
WARNING -  Long reply 

I'd say it's unlikely to be damage or deterioration.  Usually when a driver goes, it will start to buzz or it will quit completely.  And, it would be unusual for both sides to deteriorate identically.

Is it better if you push the headphones against your head to make a tighter seal?  If that helps, try bending the headband a it to make them fit tighter.  (at your own risk!  )

It could still be an impedance issue.    The headphones are rated at 24 Ohms, which is on the low side for headphones.    (The idea is for the driving device to have much lower output impedance than the headphones.)   

Have you confirmed the output impedance of the phone?  It might be a hard spec to find, because although they might specify the recommended headphone impedance, they may not give the effective output impedance.

I'd be surprised if those mods can actually improve frequency response or distortion (and there shouldn't be anything wrong with either of those anyway, unless there are frequency response issues related to impedance).    Impedance and power output are limited by the hardware, so they can't be fixed with a software/firmware mod.

What happens is this:    The impedance of headphones (and speakers) is not constant over the frequency range.  This particular headphone is rated at 24 Ohms, but that's the "nominal" impedance and it will vary over the frequency range.    If the phone's or computer's impedance is low compared to headphone impedance, frequency response remains flat (or as flat as normal for the particular headphones).  Headphones are tested/specified with low-impedance amplifiers.      But, if the phone/computer impedance is about the same as the headphone (or more), the varying headphone impedance "interacts" with the phone/computer impedance and the frequency response is affected.  Some headphones have a mid-bass rise in impedance and some listeners may like  the resulting mid-bass boost when listening on a "cheap" device.

And, higher impedance headphones are more immune to the problem.  But, higher impedance requires more voltage  for the same power  (Watts or milliwatts), so as a generalization lower impedance headphones tend to be louder (given the same drive voltage).  Some headphones are more efficient than others so lower impedance is not always louder.

There is a simple impedance experiment you can do.  You'll need two things...  You'll need a stereo system or "powered" computer speakers that can put out bass and you'll need a Y-Adapter (AKA "splitter") so you can connect two things. 

- Plug your phone or computer into your stereo or powered speakers, which will be high impedance and unaffected by the impedance of the phone/computer.   

- While listening to some music, plug-in the headphones too (but just keep listening to the speakers).  If the sound to the speakers changes, that's an impedance issue and the impedance of the headphones is affecting the signal.    If the sound does not change, you don't have an impedance problem.

A headphone amplifier could solve an impedance problem, and/or with more power available it would allow you to boost/EQ the bass without clipping (distortion).  You don't need a super-expensive headphone amp, just one with low output impedance and sufficient output power.    I don't have a headphone amp, so I'll let others make recommendations, or you can search this forum for previous recommendations.


P.S.
If you boost the bass digitally (with software), at high volumes you might clip (distort) your digital-to-analog converter and/or the analog output circuit.    The solution is to turn-up the bass, then turn-down the (digital) volume in your phone or computer, then turn-up the (analog) volume control on your headphone amp.

Quote from: DVDdoug on
Quote
To get bass with headphones it typically requires seal. Either internally there is something wrong or the headphones do not seal to your head.
lisanty, Do you wear glasses?  If so try listening with them off.


Hey man thank you for the time  you took for my post you really gave me a class  , i feel somewhat bad to come in this forum being such a noob as myself in this more technical and advanced subject to write a nooby thread on "omg my headphone is not working" in a forum were you guys discuss much more serious technichal stuff than this.

I just had nowere on the web to get help on this specifically, it is such a odd problem! on head-fi the most technical thing i got was that it was just a cable problem
I also dont think it is a cable problem as for my experience with bad cables that i just described on the quote above

About the headphone seal..it is average in general by its design , the earpad overlaps the ear for being big so the ear sits inside of it completely,the arc from the heaphone doesnt provide much pressure for a tight seal plus the cushions are extremely soft and spacy from anything solid that could provide a litle bit more of a solid contact with the head that could compress the cushions for a litle bit more pression

if you try to push the headphones aganist the ears there is a radius of distance that is the first thing you notice , i dont know why is the complete loss of the sounds "weight", only medium-high and high frequences treble only , possibly something to do with pressure built inside not sound distortion... and if you push futher it goes back to normal with less bass and more treble...doesnt work in the XB 700 at  least in my experience,and it doesnt seem to be some faliure but i could be wrong!

As for glasses i dont wear glasses  i saw a post about the effects of glasses specially on low frequencies but it was full of technicalities and graphs i didnt understand much  , but i get that wearing glasses and heaphones can have a negative effect on the sound performance

About the impedance, i just really havent a chance yet to test the phones on a satisfatory variety of equipments... i also lack of audio assesories for bigger phones such as connectos and jacks convertors and stuff like that :/

As for the mods on the cellphone, i thought of this when i first saw something about modding the audio and i really wasnt into modding phone and custom roms and all that stuff, i thought that it wouldnt make any diference since it couldnt provide my headphone more power and i was convinced i needed a amp, that the phone was not made for this and it couldnt deliver, i had a stock ROM with just a music player that had a buillt in equilizer, the volume was low, i mean so many times i wished i could up the volume and maybe give it more overall power to push the bass, at the time i downloaded an app to to do this aaaaand....it was awful just 2 or 3 volumes up the limit the audio distortion begin, and that was the confirmation i had  i  needed for a amp and a quality dedicated music player ....and let me be honest oooh boy i was wrong  i had to get a basic ovverall knowledge on custom roms and kernels and stuff related about android in general to be able to perform this, as a noob in this too it wasnt so simple and i strugled and had to modify coded files on my own to be able to do it but when i finally did it , it literally blew my mind in many ways...first the phone is much more powerful as an audio player as it seems to be, from the stuff i learned about it some of they comes with really hi fi audio processors some of which can be found on hi end players, i didnt knew that ...but it is severly limited by the factory due overall energy consumption and sutff like that targeting the average consumer needs, strongly would advise you guys to give a try on a phone that support such things because it totally worth it ! Its very interesting 

Some basic info about my phone sound chip and the kernel mod and the soundmod itself
Wolfson WM1811 audio chip that came in the international version of the samsung galaxy s3 :

""Stereo Codec with 3 Digital Audio Interfaces

The WM1811A is a highly integrated ultra-low power hi-fi codec designed for smartphones and other portable devices rich in multimedia features-24-bit 2-channel hi-fi DAC and 2-channel hi-fi
-ADC100dB SNR during DAC playback ('A' weighted)
-Smart MIC interface
-Power, clocking and data input for up to two digital MICs
-High performance analog MIC interface
-MIC activity detect & interrupt allows processor to sleep
-Low power jack detection support
-Impedance sensing for accessory / push-button detection
-2W stereo (2 x 2W) class D speaker driver
-Capless Class W headphone drivers
-Integrated charge pump
-5.3mW total power for DAC playback to headphones
-4 Line outputs (single-ended or differential)
-BTL Earpiece driver
-Digital audio interfaces for multi-processor architecture
-Asynchronous stereo duplex sample rate conversion
-Powerful mixing and digital loopback functions
-ReTune™ Mobile 5-band, 4-channel parametric EQ
-Dynamic range controller
-Dual FLL provides all necessary clocks
-Self-clocking modes allow processor to sleep
-All standard sample rates from 8kHz to 96kHz
-Active noise reduction circuits
-DC offset correction removes pops and clicks
-Ground loop noise cancellation
-Integrated LDO regulators
-80-ball W-CSP package (4.158 x 3.876 x 0.607mm)""

My sound chip might be totally dated and not so powerful but i just read today on head fi forums that the new LG V10 comes with a extremely powerful one "-that can drive up to 600 ohms"

The ROM doesnt really matter  but the kernel matters, it controls the hardware and there is sound fi kernels for phones with good chips, i am using the Boefla Kernel with "Boeffla-Sound audio engine, which allows you to make more usage of the power of the built-in audio hub (Wolfson Micro WM1811 or WM8994). The Boeffla-Sound engine controls the audio hub on hardware register level"
As for the software mod i would suggest to take a look on details at the original forum there are 3 sound mods that works with eachothe 2 of them do the most work:
XTREMEmusic mod (combines all the sound mods,sound engines plus adds the best parts of each sound engine ):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/so...taller-t3029951
ViPER audio effects:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191223

The sound of it as for my in ear monitors are the best ive personally experienced yet...thankfully most for the sound mod and its engines it does better than my pc with a soundcard and foobar2000 right on the start without any equalization or tune on the cellphone
As for the XB700 it dramatically improved to the point were i can make it so loud with so much on the equalization to the point i cant stand keep listening for being so loud.. funny because i thought it didnt had power for it...talking about the bass of it, i can push it futherbut the mids and highs would make me deaf to make the bass reach the point of being good , and if i try to make the equalization with  lower mids and highs gain the bass becomes distorted and very innacurate    seems like it is not at the same standard to the mids and highs and by peoples reviews about this headphones....the bass should be beyond the mids and highs standards

ive been thinking about get a amp like you said for some devices that dont have power to drive the bass ,but i been in doubt.... like @xnor said below..and i saw in many reviews about the xb700 is that people was using xb700 on these low power devices and they was getting such a great experience about the bass itself



Now another odd thing about it is my laptop and the XB700... maybe something to do with the impedance ...like i said before i get a completely flat response of the xb700 when i plug it on the laptop 100% no bass and no highs very noisy mids no matter how much i try to equalize it
Which is odd since it is a gaming laptop with alot of sound features, my in ear monitors and my shitty sony pulse headset sound incredible on it i dont get it


Quote from: xnor on
XB700 has a bit below ~30 ohms impedance and fairly flat and is quite sensitive, so should sound ok with most sources that have a headphone jack.

---

@OP: Have you removed the pads and done some visual inspection? Afaik the drivers are removable with a few screws so you can also check the back.
To get bass with headphones it typically requires seal. Either internally there is something wrong or the headphones do not seal to your head.

I removed the pad of 1 side and inspected the driver...comparing it to what i seen on the internet as reference seems like they are ok...the cable connection is also ok...i dont know if i can get the drivers loose to inspect it more detalied..there seems to be a plastic grid with a thin foam  that doesnt seen to come out and its right at the" air pouch" thing that i assume that makes the bass it prevents me from contact with the driver itself maybe it is sealed?

My SONY XB700 is cursed!

Reply #6 –
Talking about broken cables reminded me of something...

A broken ground cable in a headphone can result in a "vocal removal" effect.    The "center channel" (everything that's identical in the left & right channels)  gets removed.  Since bass is in the center it gets removed too.

There are a few of ways to test this...  You should notice a reduction in lead vocals, or if you are watching  movie the dialog should be silent or very quiet.  When you play a stereo file, you'll hear the same thing in both ears (no stereo sound).  A mono file will be silent, or nearly silent.      Your balance control won't work - If you  move the balance control fully-left or fully-right, the sound will still come from both sides.   

If all of the above symptoms are present, the headphone has a broken ground connection.

My SONY XB700 is cursed!

Reply #7 –
This may seem like an out-there question, but are you sure you didn't buy a fake MDR XB700?

Often popular and mid-range headphones from Sennheiser and other brands see a lot of fakes, and a quick google for 'MDR XB700 headphone fakes' returns several results.

May not be, and I personally have never used the model so can't comment on what the bass should be like, but worth checking.
 

My SONY XB700 is cursed!

Reply #8 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
A broken ground cable in a headphone can result in a "vocal removal" effect.    The "center channel" (everything that's identical in the left & right channels)  gets removed.  Since bass is in the center it gets removed too.


I came here to suggest this.  I've had headphones suddenly lose bass response, and it was due to a bad ground connector.