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Topic: Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount (Read 8749 times) previous topic - next topic
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Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Hi guys,

I have a Zoom H6 recorder and mounted my baby with a $1 cheap hot shoe screw mount on my Canon 6D. In a crowded area something happened and screw broken, stuck inside the mount of Zoom H6.



I tried to move it with pliers, did not work. I tried to move and loose it with a screwdriver, did not work.

Some people suggested to open the device and try this way. First, I don't have a guarantee because it's second hand. Second, I don't want to destroy the interior isolation. And third, probably tripod mount is a metal cap itself and opening the box will not solve the problem.

Do you have any suggestions to save the mount? If it's impossible, which kind of a holder/strap I can use it to mount on something?

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Grishnak on
Hi guys,

I have a Zoom H6 recorder and mounted my baby with a $1 cheap hot shoe screw mount on my Canon 6D. In a crowded area something happened and screw broken, stuck inside the mount of Zoom H6.



I tried to move it with pliers, did not work. I tried to move and loose it with a screwdriver, did not work.

Some people suggested to open the device and try this way. First, I don't have a guarantee because it's second hand. Second, I don't want to destroy the interior isolation. And third, probably tripod mount is a metal cap itself and opening the box will not solve the problem.

Do you have any suggestions to save the mount? If it's impossible, which kind of a holder/strap I can use it to mount on something?



(1) Get a hardened tool steel punch with a small tip and place its tip close to an edge of the broken screw, pointing across the edge of the broken screw, and tap the stub out with a small hammer. 

(2) Many better hardware stores have several different sizes of screw extractor kits for a few bucks that have drills the right size and reverse threaded hardened steel extractors that you chuck into a tap handle, press into the drilled hole and gently back the screw out. 

First drill a small hole in the center of the screw stub, perhaps center punching it to keep the drill from walking off the stub. Sometimes you can file or grind the top of stub flat to facilitate this.

(3) Sometimes you can cut a screwdriver slot in the top of the stub. The tool of choice may be a Dremyl tool with a thin diamond cutting tool.

Of course I'm such a careful worker that I've never ever had to try any of these procedures, but somehow I know that they can all work, depending on the job. ;-)

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #2 –
I would go for number 3.

I hear tell that screw extractors take a bit of practice, and are not a tool for a novice to use on something valuable. I never tried.

Even though I would choose option 3 here, I don't think it is easy. Using grinding/cutting tools in rotary tools like Dremel made me really really appreciate my dentist's skills! Really, those guys are geniuses: sculptors, engineers, artists and surgeons all in one.
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #3 –
Use a left handed drill-bit.

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
I would go for number 3.

I hear tell that screw extractors take a bit of practice, and are not a tool for a novice to use on something valuable. I never tried.

Even though I would choose option 3 here, I don't think it is easy. Using grinding/cutting tools in rotary tools like Dremel made me really really appreciate my dentist's skills! Really, those guys are geniuses: sculptors, engineers, artists and surgeons all in one.



Option 1 is usually the one I try first because it often works, is clearly is the easiest, and takes the fewest special tools, Its application does not ruin the stub for sequel attempts by other means.

I don't think the reverse twist drill is that good of an option because reverse-twist drills are IME hard to find, and if you look at a screw extractor bit:

(1) It is made something like a reverse twist drill

(2) They are more commonly available.

(3) They are made out of hardened steel just like a drill.

(4) They have a beefier shank than a drill which should make them less likely to break.

Let's face it - a broken screw is usually the consequence of less-than-perfect hand and eye coordination, but any of these procedures give second and third chances to obtain more hand and eye coordination by means of that time-honored procedure called "Learning by doing".  If you are a real klutz, find someone who knows what they are doing and has the right tools on hand.

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #5 –
Sounds reasonable. I used to make jewellery as a hobby, so I am not a stranger to reasonably accurate use of hand tools on metal --- in fact it is wood that I am completely hopeless with.

Quote from: Ferongr on
Use a left handed drill-bit.


A drill bit just drills a hole: it won't make any difference if it is designed to do that clockwise or anticlockwise! You just end up with a hole all the same. The screw extractor has a taper so that it screws itself in and grips. Anticlockwise.

The difficulty with drilling a hole in any fairly hard material is the starting point. I think that the centre-punching Arnold mentions is vital. One of my most favourite tools of all time is the automatic centre punch. I've used mine on all sort of stuff from gold to concrete.
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
... I think that the centre-punching Arnold mentions is vital. One of my most favourite tools of all time is the automatic centre punch. I've used mine on all sort of stuff from gold to concrete.


For the current situation, where there is a fragile electronic device attached, I'd go for using a Dremel or similar to cut a slot in the end and turn it out with a screwdriver. If you can't do it or find a friend to do it, take it to a manufacturing jeweller.

As for the auto punch, they are also a favourite tool of car thieves... 
Regards,
   Don Hills
"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #7 –
I wouldn't submit my camera's delicate optical alignment and image sensor to the trauma of being knock by an auto punch device. The force would be like a camera's drop to the ground, which also should be avoided.

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #8 –
Quote from: splice on
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
... I think that the centre-punching Arnold mentions is vital. One of my most favourite tools of all time is the automatic centre punch. I've used mine on all sort of stuff from gold to concrete.


For the current situation, where there is a fragile electronic device attached, I'd go for using a Dremel or similar to cut a slot in the end and turn it out with a screwdriver. If you can't do it or find a friend to do it, take it to a manufacturing jeweller.

As for the auto punch, they are also a favourite tool of car thieves... 


Yes, I was told that, way back then. Universal key! One punch in the corner of the glass and it shatters,  In fact, I have wondered if it might not be a better safety tool to keep on the inside of the car, than those small hammers. But hey, topic drift.

I have been thinking about this problem, specifically wondering if there is any glue that could come in useful? It would have to be able to cavity fill, and withstand the turning motion.  As with all glue jobs, supporting the parts until set is always a problem. And getting it to stay away from the unwanted places.

If I were to pick a candidate from my various assorted tubes, it would be JB-Weld.

Just thinking... Any ideas?
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #9 –
OP, have you also tried simply pressing the exposed part with your finger or a pencil's eraser and tested to see if you can simply unscrew it out?

The screw depth on camera tripod sockets is ALWAYS deeper that the 1/4 inch or so of tripod screws, by design, and the tightened result we feel when attaching cameras is from the tripod's cork/rubber baseplate friction against the bottom of the camera, and not from the threaded screw shaft having reached the bottom. That is, under normal scenarios, that screw should be in there pretty loosely.

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
Quote from: splice on
... I think that the centre-punching Arnold mentions is r.
As for the auto punch, they are also a favourite tool of car thieves... 


Yes, I was told that, way back then. Universal key! One punch in the corner of the glass and it shatters,  In fact, I have wondered if it might not be a better safety tool to keep on the inside of the car, than those small hammers. But hey, topic drift.


There is a hardened steel center punch in all 4 door pockets of  my car. We live around a lot of lakes, streams, and rivers... They were on sale at Lowes for about a buck a piece.

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
Quote from: splice on
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
... I think that the centre-punching Arnold mentions is vital. One of my most favourite tools of all time is the automatic centre punch. I've used mine on all sort of stuff from gold to concrete.


For the current situation, where there is a fragile electronic device attached, I'd go for using a Dremel or similar to cut a slot in the end and turn it out with a screwdriver. If you can't do it or find a friend to do it, take it to a manufacturing jeweller.

As for the auto punch, they are also a favourite tool of car thieves... 


Yes, I was told that, way back then. Universal key! One punch in the corner of the glass and it shatters,  In fact, I have wondered if it might not be a better safety tool to keep on the inside of the car, than those small hammers. But hey, topic drift.

I have been thinking about this problem, specifically wondering if there is any glue that could come in useful? It would have to be able to cavity fill, and withstand the turning motion.  As with all glue jobs, supporting the parts until set is always a problem. And getting it to stay away from the unwanted places.

If I were to pick a candidate from my various assorted tubes, it would be JB-Weld.

Just thinking... Any ideas?



This application seems to lack the large area to bond that is significant in getting a durable joint out of glue. A really good glue is still under 10,000 PSI strength, and most metals are several times higher. I think that the metal-metal application of force is key.

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #12 –
Hi guys,

Thanks for all suggestions. I tried some of them but still I don't have any result. The drill soluton is risky since the recorder has internal isolation for sound, even it's not broken, it might get damaged. We tried with a punch, did not work out.

The problem is, the idiot who produced this screw made this thing out of aluminium, not iron or steel. The broken screw is very soft, it's possible to carve it softly. But also this does not work.

My next plan is to carve a hole inside aluminium and stick a piece of small metal bar to the hole with a metal glue. Then turn it.

Or, I'll carve the whole screw at home when I get bored every day and eventually I'll escape from Alcatraz...

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Grishnak on
Hi guys,

Thanks for all suggestions. I tried some of them but still I don't have any result. The drill soluton is risky since the recorder has internal isolation for sound, even it's not broken, it might get damaged. We tried with a punch, did not work out.

The problem is, the idiot who produced this screw made this thing out of aluminium, not iron or steel. The broken screw is very soft, it's possible to carve it softly. But also this does not work.

My next plan is to carve a hole inside aluminium and stick a piece of small metal bar to the hole with a metal glue. Then turn it.

Or, I'll carve the whole screw at home when I get bored every day and eventually I'll escape from Alcatraz...



One last ditch approach is to drill out the screw with a drill that i large enough to remove all of the screw but the threads. Centering is critical! Then you can usually pull the thread portion of the screw with pliers as a spiral of metal.  This leaves the threads in the hole mostly intact.


If the threads in the hole become damaged they can be repaired using commercially available threaded inserts.

Threaded hole repair decision tree

The classic Helicoil

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #14 –
Back in the day when I was a semi-(not-much-)skilled engineering storekeeper, we had a machine that produced a spark which, aimed at the centre of the broken bolt, would burn it out. It took ages, and required very careful setup (my boss was very good at it; me, not so much so, but he had a few more decades experience) would leave an undamaged thread. This would have been about 1972: my memory is vague
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #15 –
I repeat, take it to a jeweller. (One who makes jewellery, not just a retailer.) They have the tools and the expertise to get it out without damaging the recorder.
Regards,
   Don Hills
"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #16 –
Quote from: mzil on
I wouldn't submit my camera's delicate optical alignment and image sensor to the trauma of being knock by an auto punch device. The force would be like a camera's drop to the ground, which also should be avoided.


That's not the camera in which it is stuck.
Creature of habit.

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #17 –
Can you unscrew the outer piece that the screw is stuck in?
 

Broken Screw Inside Tripod Mount

Reply #18 –
Quote from: zipr on
Can you unscrew the outer piece that the screw is stuck in?


If I were designing this piece I would have used a threaded insert through (what appears to be) the sheet metal case with a backing nut, and locktite'd the threads of the backing nut.  What is the magic audio isolation we're expecting inside this case which would be damaged by opening and better inspection of options available to the OP?
Creature of habit.