Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: Commercial cinema vs home cinema (Read 15516 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Do you guys feel the home cinema can outperform a full blown cinema? I think so. I've experienced some terrible sound in a commercial cinema with weak bass as compared to my own system.

I'm sure there are good and bad quality dedicated cinemas, but I've always thought the sound in a home cinema and especially surround sound is a lot more convincing in a home than in a cinema. Would do you think?

What disadvantages do commercial cinemas have over home cinemas and vice-versa? I think the only disadvantage that I can think of is sheer size of the screen. You can't fit that in a normal home. Possibly the acoustics? But in the home the acoustics can be addressed to a large degree so....

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #1 –
Cinemas have consistently crap* sound quality as far as I've experienced, so yes, definitely.

> sheer size of the screen. You can't fit that in a normal home.
Well, you're a lot closer to the screen in a home so the effective size of a pixel can be the same. Also, your comfy chair is always optimally positioned at home.


*) a catch-all phrase that indicates I'm not sure what the actual problem is. Just volume? Clipping? Poor EQ? Echoing? Resonance? Subjective dislike of overblown bass? All of the above?

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Rich B on
Do you guys feel the home cinema can outperform a full blown cinema?


Usual problem. All home cinemas aren't the same, neither are theatre systems. Should I use the Henry Ford's Imax system as my baseline for a cinema system, or the smallest theatre in the crappy multiplex out in the suburbs that is on its last legs, anyhow?

Quote
I think so. I've experienced some terrible sound in a commercial cinema with weak bass as compared to my own system.


Looks like some cherry picking is going on here.  Ever been in a well-run higher end IMax theatre?

Quote
I'm sure there are good and bad quality dedicated cinemas, but I've always thought the sound in a home cinema and especially surround sound is a lot more convincing in a home than in a cinema. Would do you think?


I think I've heard tell of home systems that were totally insane with more subwoofers than a higher end iMax system - so many in fact that I suspect that some of those were just the owner's ego talking.

A commercial theatre is going to be engineered with some notion of cost effectiveness. OTOH the big boys with money to spend have some incredible tools we don't see much in homes like this 15 Kw water cooled projector bulb. They have the speakers to match.




Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #3 –
One advantage to Home Cinema: if there's someone making a nuisance of themselves, you can kick them out without waiting for a member of staff to deal with it.

One advantage to Commercial Cinema: if the trouble-maker is big and scary, there are staff to deal with him.

Seriously, I am very out of touch with commercial cinema. My local old-fashioned movie theatre is now a health club, while my experiences at the multiplex were so disappointing, I haven't been since 2005's ill-conceived big-screen version of 'The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy'.

The picture was acceptable, but the bass had been cranked up 'til it boomed through the building, making Mos Def's already subdued mumblings totally inaudible. At least, on that occasion, my fellow cinema-goers were reasonably well-behaved. And audience behaviour has got worse and worse in general.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #4 –
My home system probably sounds better than the average  movie theater.    Plus, you can adjust your home system (EQ and volume, etc.) and you can choose your seating position.

However I do enjoy the theater's larger acoustic space, and I usually enjoy listening to and critiquing the sound (mentally/silently).  So even if the sound isn't perfect, I'm still getting some enjoyment from evaluating it.

In fact, the few movies I choose to see in the theater are usually music-related.  The last two movies I saw were Jersey Boys and Get On Up.    Since I usually don't see the big blockbuster action movies, my choice of theaters is limited and I'm probably not in the theater with the best sound system. 

...Anytime I'm around a PA system, I'm usually evaluating it.  (I've noticed that the background music systems in grocery stores have been getting better over the last few years.  And the background music is getting better too...  Less generic elevator music.) 

And, when I'm at a live musical event I listen to the "room".    And if I notice the event is being recorded, I become more aware of audience noises that might be getting captured in the recording.  Otherwise, I'm usually able to ignore stray-occasional ambient noise.  A sneeze at a live performance wouldn't interfere with my enjoyment, but a sneeze in a recording would annoy me very much!

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #5 –
The big screen size, can't be beat.  However I don't think screen size is that great if the resolution is roughly the same as what you get at home.  Providing it's digital projection.  Film projection isn't that great.  Scratches, blotches, etc.

Nothing like watching a movie that some idiot teenagers before you enter the auditorium splashed their drink on the screen, leaving a discolored spot you have to put with when seeing the movie.  Not a problem with home cinema unless your kid shoots a BB Gun at your HDTV or touches the screen with their dirty icky fingers.

In commercial cinema you're using not sitting in the greatest of sweet spots.  In home cinema providing you don't have some unfortunate speaker placement or room problems.  It tends to be easier to achieve.

Commercial cinemas usually have sound proofing from noise outside of the building, you shouldn't be disturbed by someone mowing their lawn next-door at any decent theater, at home this can expensive to implant in a typical wood frame home.  Be damned if someone owns a landscaping company right next-door.

Commercial cinema may have rude movie goers, at home you usually don't have to deal with this unless you live with super rude family members or roommates.

Most people don't know how to setup a TV right, expect fat people or white outlines around objects, etc.  In commercial cinema this has never been a problem that I've had the misfortune of seeing.

Most people may not notice or know the difference between matrixed surround sound and discrete surround or even have it all setup very poorly.  In fact like the above problem with TVs it's that most do not care.  Some people have unrealistic views of surround sound as well.

In some apartment situations it's not possible to have a home cinema system anyway and the local theater is your only option.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #6 –
The HG2G movie wasn't that bad. Zooey Deschanel as Trillian and Mos Def as Prefect were awesome. They probably should have done a 5-movie trilogy though.

As for the thread topic, personally, I have all but stopped going to the "regular" movies. Pretty much only go to IMAX for the spectacle (and if the movie was filmed in IMAX). That said, recently I've been burned with all the fake "IMAX" theaters. I recall reading that it was proposed to brand these fake IMAX "IMAX Digital" or some such but IMAX didn't go with it and sold out the brand, a cynic might think they benefit from the confusion, but there are a lot of people angry about the dilution of it.

Quote from: dhromed on
> sheer size of the screen. You can't fit that in a normal home.
Well, you're a lot closer to the screen in a home so the effective size of a pixel can be the same. Also, your comfy chair is always optimally positioned at home.

The same effective size is not the same effective experience. Huge screen can't be replicated at home. Maybe one of those VR goggles might do it in the future, I think things like parallax play a role.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Chibisteven on
The big screen size, can't be beat.  However I don't think screen size is that great if the resolution is roughly the same as what you get at home.  Providing it's digital projection.  Film projection isn't that great.  Scratches, blotches, etc.


I prefer 70mm projected film such as true IMAX over digital projection.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #8 –
Quote from: andy o on
The HG2G movie wasn't that bad. Zooey Deschanel as Trillian and Mos Def as Prefect were awesome. They probably should have done a 5-movie trilogy though.

I watched the film again a few years later, this time at home. Now I could decipher Mos Def's still-mumbly dialogue, which immediately improved things. Zooey Deschanel, however, is still the poster girl for whiny self-absorption. But that's just my opinion. Getting Alan Rickman to voice Marvin was a great idea, though. Trouble is, I still have too many fond memories of the Radio and TV versions.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #9 –
It's all subjective and entirely dependent on the commercial or home theatre. You can wonderful and awful examples of both.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #10 –
Quote from: probedb on
It's all subjective


I don't think so. I know that there are objective parameters and tests that are used to specify and validate commercial movie venues, especially the high end ones.  Ditto for many of the higher end installers of HT systems.

Quote
and entirely dependent on the commercial or home theatre. You can wonderful and awful examples of both.


Agreed.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #11 –
Quote from: probedb on
It's all subjective and entirely dependent on the commercial or home theatre. You can wonderful and awful examples of both.

Precisely. My local cinema is disappointing, but that doesn't mean yours is.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #12 –
The one thing that sticks in my mind is low bass performance. I've been to many commercial cinemas and the bass can be loud, but not particularly deep. Like 20 Hz and below, deep.

Which is one area I think the home theater can excel in. I've heard of people with custom sub solutions that can give bass output below 10 Hz.

The other thing is surround sound. I've not once experienced good surround sound in a commercial cinema. In the home its far easier to optimise speaker and seated positioning for best performance. I have not been to the Imax though...

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Rich B on
The one thing that sticks in my mind is low bass performance. I've been to many commercial cinemas and the bass can be loud, but not particularly deep. Like 20 Hz and below, deep.

Which is one area I think the home theater can excel in. I've heard of people with custom sub solutions that can give bass output below 10 Hz.


I think it's mostly a problem of being able to couple such low frequencies into the room. The wavelengths are so large that you have to pressurize and depressurize the room more or less, and you simply cannot do that as effectively in a large theater as you can in a smaller living room or home cinema.

Once you've experienced solid sub-20Hz effects at 120+dB, nothing else compares.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #14 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Quote from: Rich B on
The one thing that sticks in my mind is low bass performance. I've been to many commercial cinemas and the bass can be loud, but not particularly deep. Like 20 Hz and below, deep.

Which is one area I think the home theater can excel in. I've heard of people with custom sub solutions that can give bass output below 10 Hz.


I think it's mostly a problem of being able to couple such low frequencies into the room. The wavelengths are so large that you have to pressurize and depressurize the room more or less, and you simply cannot do that as effectively in a large theater as you can in a smaller living room or home cinema.

Once you've experienced solid sub-20Hz effects at 120+dB, nothing else compares.


Exactly! I had a friend of mine arguing with me that he doesn't know why people invest in HT because a decent cinema experience can't be replicated in the home which I disagree with.

I can't speak for all commercial cinemas, but the ones I've been to have been very loud, some have distorted in very dynamic sequences, poor surround sound envelopment, unimpressive low bass performance.

It seems like a cinema should aspire to what a good home cinema can be, not the other way around IMO.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #15 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
I think it's mostly a problem of being able to couple such low frequencies into the room.


Actually, the problem is generating such low frequencies cleanly with sufficiently high SPLs.

Quote
The wavelengths are so large that you have to pressurize and depressurize the room more or less, and you simply cannot do that as effectively in a large theater as you can in a smaller living room or home cinema.


While it may take some valuable resources to do so, we can create whatever SPLs we wish at very low frequencies by having large enough diaphragms that have sufficient area and linear stroke. 

Quote
Once you've experienced solid sub-20Hz effects at 120+dB, nothing else compares.


Agreed, and it takes a lot less resourced to do that in the passenger compartment of an automobile than in a 16 x 30 x 10 listening room or a very large theatre.

Right now there are economies of scale that favor largeer rooms up to a certain size, and above that the costs go up more or less linearly as the volume of the room increases.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #16 –
hello to all
              I am from India and was looking for advice on theater systems and finally found this place.At of now i have a sony led tv with sony BDV9100W 5.1 channel blu ray home theater system for movies and sony MHC GZX 33 D music system to enjoy music.Now i want to experience exactly the same picture,sound as well as overall environment like a movie theater at my home.So iam planning to install a projector replacing the led tv.I was very happy and impressed with the this sony home theater untill i had a demo with Bower And wilkins speaker system.Then i realized that though very good,still sony home theater is no way near a B and W speakers system.in fact there is no match.Then to get a real idea of cinema sound i visited local cinemas with JBL and QSC speaker system and really listened to the movie soundtrack very carefully.  What i feel now is ofcouse sony home theater is  nothing but even the high end home theater brands like B and W and bose also are different from the sound i
hear in the movie theater.I want to experience the same sound at home like a movie theater.Which speaker system can deliver the result?Is it Bower and Wilkins CT 700 and Ct 800,Klipsch THX ultra 2,Definitive technology or any other brand.I have learned from somewhere  that PRO audio technology is the only brand in the world that produces the same commercial cinema sound at home as a movie theater.If this is true then what is the cost of this system?
                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank You

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #17 –
Quote from: SAURABH on
hello to all
              I am from India and was looking for advice on theater systems and finally found this place.At of now i have a sony led tv with sony BDV9100W 5.1 channel blu ray home theater system for movies and sony MHC GZX 33 D music system to enjoy music.Now i want to experience exactly the same picture,sound as well as overall environment like a movie theater at my home.So iam planning to install a projector replacing the led tv.I was very happy and impressed with the this sony home theater untill i had a demo with Bower And wilkins speaker system.Then i realized that though very good,still sony home theater is no way near a B and W speakers system.in fact there is no match.Then to get a real idea of cinema sound i visited local cinemas with JBL and QSC speaker system and really listened to the movie soundtrack very carefully.  What i feel now is ofcouse sony home theater is  nothing but even the high end home theater brands like B and W and bose also are different from the sound i
hear in the movie theater.I want to experience the same sound at home like a movie theater.Which speaker system can deliver the result?Is it Bower and Wilkins CT 700 and Ct 800,Klipsch THX ultra 2,Definitive technology or any other brand.I have learned from somewhere  that PRO audio technology is the only brand in the world that produces the same commercial cinema sound at home as a movie theater.If this is true then what is the cost of this system?
                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank You


It's not so much a particular brand as it is a combination of the speakers and the room. Those Bowers and Wilkins could sound completely different in your own listening environment (and I prefer Martin Logan).  I would recommend first researching speaker placement and room acoustics.  A company like GiK Acoustics can be very helpful, but I don't know if there's something similar in India, and I imagine shipping from the U.S. would be prohibitively expensive.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #18 –
My advice is to go to an audio/video store and listen for yourself.  Every speaker is going to sound different, and opinions vary and tastes vary.  And, you can't say one brand is better than another because every manufacturer makes a variety of models. 

And, there are usually considerations besides pure sound quality including cost, speaker size, and appearance.  Most of us don't have the budget or space or 5 or 7 Wilson Audio Maxx speakers (or anything of similar size or cost).   

Room size, shape, and acoustics, vary too so the speakers won't sound exactly the same in you living room as they do in the showroom.    If you want to get really  serious about the sound, you need to measure and acoustically treat the room.  (It might be a good idea to get a calibrated mic and measure the room even if you aren't planning on full acoustic treatment.)  Bass is the most difficult acoustic issue.    Depending on room size and shape and your listening position, some bass frequencies will be canceled and others reinforced.    Bass traps can cure these problems by preventing reflected bass.  You can EQ-out peaks, but you can't EQ the dips/cancellation because it takes almost infinite amplifier power and almost infinitely large speakers to overcome the cancellation.  RealTraps.com has some good information on room measurement and treatment.

Quote
So iam planning to install a projector replacing the led tv.
A projector requires a dark room because you can't project black (or dark colors).      That's OK if you're building a true home theater for "seriously" watching movies.  But, if it's  a living room or family room and you'll be watching regular TV or the news, you won't want it dark all of the time.    (You could have a projector/screen and an LED TV.)

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #19 –
I have to disagree.  A casual sighted listening comparison in a showroom is probably the worst way to buy audio equipment (except maybe headphones, since you carry the "room" with you).  I would recommend starting with a MiniDSP Umik-1 or similar, and learn how to use RoomEQ Wizard.  Simply rearrange furniture and experiment with speaker placement.  You might be surprised at what you can get out of your current system!

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #20 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
A projector requires a dark room because you can't project black (or dark colors).      That's OK if you're building a true home theater for "seriously" watching movies.  But, if it's  a living room or family room and you'll be watching regular TV or the news, you won't want it dark all of the time.    (You could have a projector/screen and an LED TV.)

I watch regular TV, such as the news, using my projector TV, in my rented apartment living room every day. They are brighter than ever and don't require commercial cinema darkness (anymore) to yield acceptable results, but yes, the room lights need to be subdued for best results. For a room with uncontrolled direct sunlight shining in through open windows they fail miserably, however for situations where you can control room brightness with curtains, light dimmers, etc. they can work remarkably well. I can't imagine going back to watching TV any other way and the one touch macros of my affordable ($59) universal remote, which also dims the room via affordable ($40) Lutron IR controlled light dimmers makes everything automated every time I turn on my TV.

I know its a cliché, but watching both TV and movies this way makes a night and day difference. I'll never go back.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #21 –
Quote
A casual sighted listening comparison in a showroom is probably the worst way to buy audio equipment
Worse than soliciting recommendations from random strangers on the Internet or reading random reviews/recommendations? 

Some higher-end shops may let you audition one or two sets of speakers at home before buying.

Quote
I would recommend starting with a MiniDSP Umik-1 or similar
Many home theater receivers have room correction built-in and that may be more economical than buying a separate equalizer (or multiple equalizers if you are EQing 5 or 7 channels).  But like I said, EQ doesn't fix everything.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #22 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
Quote
A casual sighted listening comparison in a showroom is probably the worst way to buy audio equipment
Worse than soliciting recommendations from random strangers on the Internet or reading random reviews/recommendations? 

Some higher-end shops may let you audition one or two sets of speakers at home before buying.

Quote
I would recommend starting with a MiniDSP Umik-1 or similar
Many home theater receivers have room correction built-in and that may be more economical than buying a separate equalizer (or multiple equalizers if you are EQing 5 or 7 channels).  But like I said, EQ doesn't fix everything.


Heh, there are much worse forums he could've wandered into...

I never said anything about EQ, but I agree with you about room correction.  Still, if he's new to home theater, odds are his room isn't set up optimally.  Eg., he could have a stand or desk resonating at a certain frequency, creating a 30dB null that no EQ can fix.  Without the ability to measure, he doesn't know WHAT's going on.

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #23 –
Thank you very much for replying.Yes there are a number of private enterprises here and they specialize in building a dedicated home theater room,with projector, sound system, cinema chairs, acoustics and overall room automation.I have already installed about 36 acoustic foams,and two pairs of bass traps in my room which is about 200 sq feet.Yes and as i have already stated that it is producing an excellent and immersive cinema sound as well as good music through my music system.However still it is not exactly the same as a movie theater or a high end speaker brand like B and W.I have observed that there is something different about the commercial theater audio system sound which even a few high end speaker models cant deliver.I cant express this difference in words.Pro audio technology claims that they are the only brand in the world which can deliver this result.Has anyone here heard these speakers?

Commercial cinema vs home cinema

Reply #24 –
Quote
I have already installed about 36 acoustic foams,and two pairs of bass traps
Since you're already gone to that trouble and expense, it's probably worthwhile to measure the room.  That way, you'll get an idea of what the problems are (if any) and you may find that you can make a big improvement by simply moving the bass traps/acoustic treatment or by moving your speakers/subwoofer.  Or, maybe you'll find you just need a better subwoofer with smoother-deeper response, or something like that.

Quote
However still it is not exactly the same as a movie theater
I don't think you'll ever get the exact sound of a large theater.  And, no two movie theaters are going to sound exactly alike either....

With the acoustic treatment you may have removed some (or most) of the early reflections which give the sound of a small room, but you don't have the later reflections/reverb that you get from a large room.  It's those longer delays that really give you the sound of a large space.

You might try increasing the rear channel delay (your home theater receiver should have a setting for that).    Some reverb would probably help too, but normally those effects ("Hall", "Theater", "Stadium", etc.) only work in Dolby Pro Logic II, not with discrete digital surround.    Adding a separate reverb unit to a normal home theater setup would be tricky because you'd need to  tap-in between the source and the power amp.


Quote
...or a high end speaker brand like B and W.I have observed that there is something different about the commercial theater audio system sound which even a few high end speaker models cant deliver.
I haven't heard B&W or Pro Audio Technology speakers.    If B&W gives the sound you want, that's probably the way to go.    Again, if you can get them into your home theater on a trial basis, that would be ideal.

Quote
I cant express this difference in words.
As long as you're not driving the speaker into distortion, distortion, almost all of the difference you hear is frequency response.*    But, there's on-axis response and off-axis response and the off-axis response combined with room acoustics means that two different speakers with similar measured (on-axis) response may sound different in a real room.   

To an extent, you can use EQ to adjust frequency response.    The biggest limitation with EQ is boosting bass range where the speaker has to be capable putting out the bass and the amplifier has to be capable of a putting-out the additional power (+3dB is twice the power, +6dB is four times the power).

And as we've said, you can't EQ-out a null.  But if your bass traps are effective, that may not be a big issue.

Quote
Pro audio technology claims that they are the only brand in the world which can deliver this result.
I'm skeptical of those kinds of claims.  Many companies make excellent speakers, including companies that make pro cinema speakers such as JBL, Cerwin Vega, Electro-Voice, and others.    But looking at their website, their speakers do look  impressive!  The overall design looks impressive too...  I'm sure their larger speakers could rattle the walls!






*  There are 4 basic characteristics to "sound quality" - Distortion, frequency response, noise, and timing related effects.    (Ethan Winer has an article about these 4 parameters.) 

Speakers don't generate noise (under normal conditions) and other than timing/phase issues between the various drivers, the timing effects are reverb and reflected sound from the room (not directly from the speaker).    So by the process of elimination, the biggest difference in sound quality between speakers is frequency response (as long as the speakers are not over-driven).