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Topic: Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L (Read 4610 times) previous topic - next topic
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Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Let's suppose I've gotten the Auto-Tune pitch correction VST for Ableton Live and I wanna use it on the output sound of the Mic 1 I've plugged into the XLR socket of my DENON DN-X1700 mixer.

How do I assign the VST to that channel? Apparently, Ableton Live 9 only allows me to bind a VST to a rack or to a track, and not to a physical output of the mixer.

In other words, I need to «inject» the Auto-Tune algorithm in the middle of the mic sound processing, before it's out and after it's in.

Do you know any workaround for this? If everything else fails, I would need a 500$ TASCAM TA-1VP to plug the mic there...

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #1 –
You'll probably get better answers on an Ableton forum.

Does the mixer have effect sends/returns?  If I understand what you want, you want to use AutoTune in as a real-time analog effect on one of the mixer channels...  Is that what you want to do? 

In that case, you'd need an ADC & DAC to run your analog effects signal through the computer.  (You might have latency issues if you are using the mixer live or for monitoring.)

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #2 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
You'll probably get better answers on an Ableton forum.

Does the mixer have effect sends/returns?  If I understand what you want, you want to use AutoTune in as a real-time analog effect on one of the mixer channels...  Is that what you want to do? 

In that case, you'd need an ADC & DAC to run your analog effects signal through the computer.  (You might have latency issues if you are using the mixer live or for monitoring.)


The DNX1700 has a built-in hi-quality sound card with a 96kHz/32bit DAC and also the SEND/RTN function on the effects.

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #3 –
Quote
The DNX1700 has a built-in hi-quality sound card with a 96kHz/32bit DAC and also the SEND/RTN function on the effects.
I assume the problem is where the ADC & DAC are wired.    The DAC is probably at the Master Out.  The ADC is probably a separate input that can be mixed with the analog audio.

You need Effects Send -> ADC -> ComputerAbleton/AutoTune -> DAC -> Effect Return.

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #4 –
Hmm... by looking the block diagram (Denon OM, page 20) ... shouldn't it work by just routing the Mic singnal through USB path into Ableton/AutoTune and out (!switches in Denon)? Less latency if you use the bundled ASIO driver.

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Juha on
Hmm... by looking the block diagram (Denon OM, page 20) ... shouldn't it work by just routing the Mic singnal through USB path into Ableton/AutoTune and out (!switches in Denon)? Less latency if you use the bundled ASIO driver.


Would this mean, plugging the mic into the EFX INPUT socket and then use the SEND/RTN effector on the mixer?

The question is, can a mic be plugged into an EFX INPUT socket?

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #6 –
Aren't EFX Send/Rtn an analog path? If you're going route signal go through PC using these ports then, as DVDdoug pointed out, you'll need an additional ADC/DAC (soundcard input/output) there ... latency issues possible.

If you aim is just to route the mic signal (taken in in Denon) go through Ableton/AutoTune before it is outputted from Denon then the USB path is the way to do it without need for 2nd audio interface. With USB, signal path is Mic --> ADC (Denon) --> USB out (Denon) --> USB in (PC) --> Ableton/AutoTune --> USB Out (PC) --> USB In (Denon) ... --> DAC (Denon). With standard drivers (MME, DS, WDM, WASAPI Shared) even this setup gives quite much latency so select the ASIO device in Ableton and set the I/O buffers to lowest possible.

If you have some misunderstanding with Ableton type DAW software ... you could alternatively try with VSTHost or simliar effects rack software.

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Juha on
Aren't EFX Send/Rtn an analog path? If you're going route signal go through PC using these ports then, as DVDdoug pointed out, you'll need an additional ADC/DAC (soundcard input/output) there ... latency issues possible.

If you aim is just to route the mic signal (taken in in Denon) go through Ableton/AutoTune before it is outputted from Denon then the USB path is the way to do it without need for 2nd audio interface. With USB, signal path is Mic --> ADC (Denon) --> USB out (Denon) --> USB in (PC) --> Ableton/AutoTune --> USB Out (PC) --> USB In (Denon) ... --> DAC (Denon). With standard drivers (MME, DS, WDM, WASAPI Shared) even this setup gives quite much latency so select the ASIO device in Ableton and set the I/O buffers to lowest possible.

If you have some misunderstanding with Ableton type DAW software ... you could alternatively try with VSTHost or simliar effects rack software.


It's far too complicated.

I've taken a look at the routings in the DENON; they do not allow outputs to be "inputted" to USB. Only inputs (CH1/2/3/4 - stereo) can be inverted and/or outputted to Mic/USB.

Outputs = CH1 / CH2 / CH3 / CH4 / DVS
Inputs = CH1 / CH2 / CH3 / CH4 / Mic / USB

But Mic is not considered an input, since inputs are RCA connections (Phono/CD) in the rear panel of the 4 stereo channels. Mic is not an input source in the DNX1700, that's the issue. They haven't thought about that.

Despite that, DNX1700 has a pitch correction algorithm built-in. It's far from Auto-Tune, but allows for a little correction (+/- 0% - 25% - 50% - 75% - 100%).

By configuring my Shure 520DX with a little wet (5-7%) "0%" (null) pitch correction (which, however, applies correction even if it says 0%, I really don't know why), my voice is clear and I've finally found a little workaround for this.

Thank you for your help anyway!

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #8 –
I see the connectivity this way: http://i61.tinypic.com/hv71xi.png
If that is correct then you should be able to do it the way I suggested in my earlier reply.

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Juha on
I see the connectivity this way: http://i61.tinypic.com/hv71xi.png
If that is correct then you should be able to do it the way I suggested in my earlier reply.


Ahh, no. It cannot be routed that way. You are routing to the USB B side which is unique and is reserved to MIDI-via-USB connections (in other words: you raise the upfaders but the mixer doesn't do anything; Live does -- same for knobs). Apart from this, if what you told was possible, I wouldn't be able to use it software-side with Ableton Live.

Injecting the Auto-Tune VST into a DENON DN-X1700 mixer with Ableton L

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Tyrexionibus on
Ahh, no. It cannot be routed that way. You are routing to the USB B side which is unique and is reserved to MIDI-via-USB connections (in other words: you raise the upfaders but the mixer doesn't do anything; Live does -- same for knobs).


For me it (schematic) says you can use that USB port for MIDI and AUDIO...

Quote
Apart from this, if what you told was possible, I wouldn't be able to use it software-side with Ableton Live.


Why not? Ableton is kind of just inserted in signal path (USB Out (Denon) ... PC/Ableton ... USB In (Denon). If you install the ASIO driver for Denon, Ableton should see Denon as one available audio interface and you be able to select it as I/O device. If Ableton is somehow restricted to do what you want then use VSTHost (freeware) ... .