Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: I don't like CD jewel cases (Read 15360 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Quote from: DVDdoug on
That 's like a great idea...  If we didn't have CDs which don't have these dynamic range problems...    On regular popular/rock records, the "hit single" was usually first in the outside groove which makes sense for that kind of music.


It's not about dynamic range, well not wholly; its inner groove distortion more here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acgDhvjjrnE

What's a CD?
I guess CD doesn't need to have those issues as it side-stepped them, it has other issues like artwork that is printed on single sheets of bog roll and cases that self destruct making your disc eject itself on the floor 
But I guess for those of use without CD players that still use vinyl it's nice to see very HQ issues, even if they're only a talking point on forums.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #1 –
Quote from: look_Sharp on
cases that self destruct

Unlike vinyl where the paper sleeves are wholly indestructible and you never run the risk of dropping a record because of a torn sleeve.

I'm sorry, but in terms of practical packaging, I think CD is the clear winner.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #2 –
Quote from: dhromed on
Quote from: look_Sharp on
cases that self destruct

Unlike vinyl where the paper sleeves are wholly indestructible and you never run the risk of dropping a record because of a torn sleeve.

I'm sorry, but in terms of practical packaging, I think CD is the clear winner.


Surely you joke? Jewel cases are the worst form of packaging ever. Vinyl paper sleeves are rare these days most new vinyl comes in mylar sleeves that are very hard (impossible) to tear and in turn that fits in a card outer sleeve,

I have 400+ CDs dating back from 1984 nearly all (about 80%) of the Jewel cases have been broken, especially the earlier hub teeth.
I have 2000 Lp's and have never dropped an LP on the floor because of a torn sleeve.
In term of practical packaging CD is a massive fail, and the newer ones that have hard plastic hubs, sometimes in digipacks make it hard to remove the disk at all!

Poor quality printed artwork slipped inside a fragile FIP plastic that is scratch resistant but brittle-not a recipe for a quality product especially the double CD's that every time drop the 2nd disk on the floor-just awful-and impossible to defend as a design decision.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #3 –
Quote
especially the earlier hub teeth.


ohh, the hub teeth. Yeah I get that.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #4 –
Quote from: look_Sharp on
Surely you joke? Jewel cases are the worst form of packaging ever.
They had some significant floors. The Super Jewel Box (google it) is fine though. That's what we should have had from the start.

Quote
I have 400+ CDs dating back from 1984 nearly all (about 80%) of the Jewel cases have been broken, especially the earlier hub teeth.
You must be quite careless, or had your CDs handled by someone who was quite careless, or have moved many times. Certainly back in 1984 it's hard to imagine anyone being careless with a CD. Early on the cases faired well because people treated them (and their contents) with such respect.

Of course the wonderful thing about standard CD jewel cases is that they can be replaced with new at very little cost, without losing the original artwork. You can't do that with a damaged LP sleeve. A great plus point to CD packaging!


It amazes me that some CDs come in packaging which scratches the CD when you try to get it out. They still play of course. Until one day they don't.  In fact it's ripping (with AccurateRip), rather than normal playing, which has shown some of these packaging induced scratches are just too much for CD's recoverable error correction.

Cheers,
David.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #5 –
Quote
Of course the wonderful thing about standard CD jewel cases is that they can be replaced with new at very little cost, without losing the original artwork. You can't do that with a damaged LP sleeve. A great plus point to CD packaging!
Bingo!  My CDs look a LOT better than my LP albums did when I gave most of them away, and they look better than the record albums in a used record store.

I've had a few jewel cases break over the years, and I will admit I've had quite a few double-CD jewel cases break.    But, I buy jewel cases in bulk (at least I used to when I was burning lots of CDs) and I've probably got at least 50 empty new ones in a box now. 

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #6 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
It amazes me that some CDs come in packaging which scratches the CD when you try to get it out.


Wait, what sort of packaging? I've only experienced hubs so tight I was afraid of snapping the CD when taking it out!

I don't do physical media anymore, though, except if you count my hard drive as one.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #7 –
Quote from: dhromed on
Wait, what sort of packaging? I've only experienced hubs so tight I was afraid of snapping the CD when taking it out!


Some digipaks have paper sleeves, Vitalogy by Pearl Jam is bad for this, my CD is quite scratched, light scratches, but purely from taking it in and out of the cover.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #8 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Quote from: look_Sharp on

I have 400+ CDs dating back from 1984 nearly all (about 80%) of the Jewel cases have been broken, especially the earlier hub teeth.


You must be quite careless, or had your CDs handled by someone who was quite careless, or have moved many times. Certainly back in 1984 it's hard to imagine anyone being careless with a CD. Early on the cases faired well because people treated them (and their contents) with such respect.

Of course the wonderful thing about standard CD jewel cases is that they can be replaced with new at very little cost, without losing the original artwork. You can't do that with a damaged LP sleeve. A great plus point to CD packaging!


I'm not that careless, in fact some cases came from the vendor 'pre broken' it is a fact that jewels are poorly designed, so much so that light pressure will break the centre hub of earlier (7 tab) designs.

As for being able to replace faulty packaging being 'a great plus point for CD' is stretching credibility in an elastic manner that is beyond my comprehension.
Why? Because destroying an LP sleeve made of 500 gsm card is much harder than the tissue paper 40 gsm insert of most CD's if you can get the artwork free of the tabs without damage (another poor design issue).

The Jewel case was poorly designed as a consumer a premium product should have come with something like this from the start
http://www.amazon.com/Jewel-Sleeve-Storage...S/dp/B0006Z39M0

I love CD's but the packaging was poorly designed from the start; the fact it so often needs to be replaced? well that isn't a 'plus point' or 'wonderful' to me at least.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #9 –
Quote from: probedb on
Quote from: dhromed on
Wait, what sort of packaging? I've only experienced hubs so tight I was afraid of snapping the CD when taking it out!


Some digipaks have paper sleeves, Vitalogy by Pearl Jam is bad for this, my CD is quite scratched, light scratches, but purely from taking it in and out of the cover.

Yes, tight paper or cardboard sleeves can be a problem.

There are also cases where you slide CDs into very soft plastic/synthetic sections like pages in a book. When those aren't so soft (our local library re-houses audiobooks into ones where the plastic holding the CDs is anything but soft!) it makes for trouble.

Paper, cardboard or whatever - any dust, dirt or grit in these things can be a disaster. In a conventional CD case, the CD has space all around it, so it would need comparatively large grit to get in there to cause a problem.

It's interesting to see how CD treatment has got "worse" over time. I remember the original Pioneer 6 CD changers seeming quite rough at the time because they slid the CDs around (oh the horror! you cannot slide CDs!!!!!) but over the softest imaginable pads. Up until that point, the general principle was that NOTHING should touch the CD's surface.

Now CD-R blanks cost 10p, it's often not even worth putting them in a case. Compared with £15 CDs in 1984 (£42 in today's money!) it's no wonder we took care of them. Don't even mention the first £50 CD-Rs in 1990 (£100 in today's money!).

Cheers,
David.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #10 –
You know look_Sharp, they're different things with different advantages and disadvantages. Buy which ever you like. They sold billions of each, so it's all good.

If you're going to argue though, try comparing like with like. I know the 7 tab CD hubs you mean. I agree about them. But then, I don't think regular paper inner sleeves on LPs are any better. There are better inner sleeves. There are better CD hubs. The crap stuff is crap. The good stuff is more than good enough.

I don't know which country you're in, but 1960s LP cardboard outersleeves from the USA often self-destruct along the spine. Even (UK) record collector magazine warns that otherwise mint LPs from the USA often have ripped sleeves because of the way they were made, and that's normal. UK record sleeves were made in a different way and are far more robust.

Still, scratch the front of an LP jacket and it's ruined. Scratch the front of a CD case, and you can just replace it.

Some of the most collectable CD packaging is unique and irreplaceable - making a saleable point out of it being fragile and hence not suitable for the mass market.

I can't believe I'm having this debate. I'm going to listen to a packaging-free mp3...

Cheers,
David.

P.S. sometimes I think I'm the only person in the whole world who can get a CD inlay out without damaging it. Then again, not many people can get a vinyl record onto a turntable without scratching the label, and "real" collectors even seek records with fewer/none spindle-hole marks.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #11 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
P.S. sometimes I think I'm the only person in the whole world who can get a CD inlay out without damaging it. Then again, not many people can get a vinyl record onto a turntable without scratching the label, and "real" collectors even seek records with fewer/none spindle-hole marks.


Don't get me started, the number of discs I've lent to friends and they come back with mucky fingerprints on the playback side! I know it doesn't affect it really but, seriously why!? As you say, I think people just pull inlays out of CDs without even thinking, I don't like lending people stuff any more

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #12 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
You know look_Sharp, they're different things with different advantages and disadvantages. Buy which ever you like. They sold billions of each, so it's all good.


LOL where have did I suggest otherwise? n.b I'm not talking CD vs Vinyl just the packaging.
I'm ranting about the jewel case which was a faulty design from the word go, LPs don't have this if you ruin your Lp sleeve by scratching it you're probably called Edward Scissorhands.

There is no comparison with a box that often comes broken from new compared to a 50 year old Kakubushi LP cover that starts to spilt slowly over time.

The Jewel case is a case of poor design.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #13 –
FWIW I've never had a problem with the jewel cases that have black or charcoal-colored spindles. It's always the clear ones that I get with most of the prongs or whatever busted out from transit. I just got a brand new CD in the mail two days ago just like that.

...but it's still safer ordering CDs via mail than records IME. Some people/companies know how to package albums for shipping. Some do not.
The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #14 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Compared with £15 CDs in 1984 (£42 in today's money!)

First, it's GBP 35 in today's money (based on the CPI All Items for the UK). Second, it's a questionable point to make anyhow considering CDs were a luxury in 1984, it hadn't quite reached the mainstream.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #15 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
Quote
Of course the wonderful thing about standard CD jewel cases is that they can be replaced with new at very little cost, without losing the original artwork. You can't do that with a damaged LP sleeve. A great plus point to CD packaging!
Bingo!  My CDs look a LOT better than my LP albums did when I gave most of them away, and they look better than the record albums in a used record store.

I've had a few jewel cases break over the years, and I will admit I've had quite a few double-CD jewel cases break.    But, I buy jewel cases in bulk (at least I used to when I was burning lots of CDs) and I've probably got at least 50 empty new ones in a box now.

And it's amazing how fresh-looking their artwork look (just like they did decades ago) when you replace their cases.
• Listen to the music, not the media it's on
• The older, the 'lossier'

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #16 –
Quote from: audiophool on
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Compared with £15 CDs in 1984 (£42 in today's money!)

First, it's GBP 35 in today's money (based on the CPI All Items for the UK). Second, it's a questionable point to make anyhow considering CDs were a luxury in 1984, it hadn't quite reached the mainstream.
...which was why people took care of them. Which was why the packaging seemed OK to start with.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #17 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Quote from: audiophool on
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Compared with £15 CDs in 1984 (£42 in today's money!)

First, it's GBP 35 in today's money (based on the CPI All Items for the UK). Second, it's a questionable point to make anyhow considering CDs were a luxury in 1984, it hadn't quite reached the mainstream.
...which was why people took care of them. Which was why the packaging seemed OK to start with.


I was a very early adopter of CD, most people I spoke to at the time hated the Jewel; the packaging always sucked it was faulty by design:

The early hubs broke far too easily

The tabs that hold the artwork easily damaged booklets and the single sheet inserts could slide out!

The hinges were a real weak point, the plastic they were made of wore very fast and the fronts became loose, the hinges broke very easily

The back covers are very hard to remove, as the hub insert plate had to be prized at the hinge!

For a premium product the design is cheap, nasty and why such a high percentage are broken.

As for the low print quality of the artwork printed on the thinnest grade of paper which most often wasn't fully coated-think Sunday supplement newspaper quality and you're there–how did they get away with it?

To se people defending these retarded design decisions and minimal quality is really funny

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #18 –
Quote from: includemeout on
Quote from: DVDdoug on
Quote
Of course the wonderful thing about standard CD jewel cases is that they can be replaced with new at very little cost, without losing the original artwork. You can't do that with a damaged LP sleeve. A great plus point to CD packaging!
Bingo!  My CDs look a LOT better than my LP albums did when I gave most of them away, and they look better than the record albums in a used record store.

I've had a few jewel cases break over the years, and I will admit I've had quite a few double-CD jewel cases break.    But, I buy jewel cases in bulk (at least I used to when I was burning lots of CDs) and I've probably got at least 50 empty new ones in a box now.

And it's amazing how fresh-looking their artwork look (just like they did decades ago) when you replace their cases.


That artwork, printed on 40 GSM gossamer thin paper that would shame a Sunday supplement? The lack of coating and thin weight means the paper blacks recorded your fingerprints better than a policeman.

Seriously are people qualitative standards so low that the hold the Jewel up as "great design' and the CD artwork print quality as good?

I know people have different standards, but would you buy a car that the doors fell of after a few uses? or any product that was so fragile normal use destroyed it?

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #19 –
I've had thousands of jewel cases over the years, and very few of them ever got broken. I agree that the prongs in the centre hub could be a weak point, but only when the tray insert was made of the wrong material. (Ever noticed how in good quality jewel cases, the tray insert is a different, slightly less brittle plastic?)

There's a knack to handling jewel cases correctly, and I've seen lots of people who simply haven't figured it out. That's a fault in usability/consumer education rather than design. How many people have you seen trying to open the case by pulling at the right hand edge, instead of using thumb and middle finger on the top & bottom? That's how hinges get broken. Here's another classic example of how ignorance can break a jewel case:

Quote from: look_Sharp on
The back covers are very hard to remove, as the hub insert plate had to be prized at the hinge!

That's the wrong way to remove the tray insert. You should ease the retaining pips out along the top or bottom edge by gentle flexing. Pulling it out at the hinge side is just asking for trouble.

On balance I think the jewel case is a sensible and cost-effective design.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #20 –
Quote from: cliveb on
There's a knack to handling jewel cases correctly, and I've seen lots of people who simply haven't figured it out. That's a fault in usability/consumer education rather than design. How many people have you seen trying to open the case by pulling at the right hand edge, instead of using thumb and middle finger on the top & bottom? That's how hinges get broken. Here's another classic example of how ignorance can break a jewel case:


No. you have it the wrong way round, as a designer you're looking for a way to design a product that is obvious in its use, one you don't have to have 'user education' in order to use.
If you have to open with thumb and middle finger instead of right hand edge-and that's how it gets broken; then the design fails, it's a BAD design.

Good design for often used products seems obvious, is robust, and you don't need a special method to open.

That someone could think those who open a plastic case as 'just consumer ignorance' doesn't have a clue about product design.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #21 –
I rather like jewel cases myself, especially super (typically SACD) cases. They do need a certain amount of care in handling though. Somewhat related, I've started seeing more cases made from a blue-tinged, flexible plastic. I'm guessing they've tried to make it cheaper and less brittle. They also feel considerably lighter. Have you ever noticed older cases having a certain weight to them?

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #22 –
Quote from: look_Sharp on
That artwork, printed on 40 GSM gossamer thin paper that would shame a Sunday supplement? The lack of coating and thin weight means the paper blacks recorded your fingerprints better than a policeman.

Seriously are people qualitative standards so low that the hold the Jewel up as "great design' and the CD artwork print quality as good?

I know people have different standards, but would you buy a car that the doors fell of after a few uses? or any product that was so fragile normal use destroyed it?

Yes, that same artwork I've been happy with for the last 20 years, thank you very much - whether your above-average knowledge of printing you seem so keen to rub in believes it or not!

Such drama!
• Listen to the music, not the media it's on
• The older, the 'lossier'

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #23 –
I've always had pretty good luck with jewel cases for CDs and I definitely prefer them to paper sleeves. Especially the sleeves where the CD slot opens towards the middle. Even if the opening isn't  towards the middle it often difficult to remove the disc without damaging the CD or the packaging due to the sleeve being to snug. The paper sleeves new for the Zeppelin Deluxe Edition CD remasters are a recent example. They open towards the top, but it was a challenge to remove the disc without tearing the sleeve or scuffing the disc. I would have prefered a jewel case or digipack.

Of course I'm only referring to single-disc jewel cases here, the ones that hold multiple CDs would typically fall apart / come off the hinges rather quickly.

I don't like CD jewel cases

Reply #24 –
Quote from: look_Sharp on
Quote from: cliveb on
There's a knack to handling jewel cases correctly, and I've seen lots of people who simply haven't figured it out. That's a fault in usability/consumer education rather than design. How many people have you seen trying to open the case by pulling at the right hand edge, instead of using thumb and middle finger on the top & bottom? That's how hinges get broken. Here's another classic example of how ignorance can break a jewel case:


No. you have it the wrong way round, as a designer you're looking for a way to design a product that is obvious in its use, one you don't have to have 'user education' in order to use.
If you have to open with thumb and middle finger instead of right hand edge-and that's how it gets broken; then the design fails, it's a BAD design.

Good design for often used products seems obvious, is robust, and you don't need a special method to open.

That someone could think those who open a plastic case as 'just consumer ignorance' doesn't have a clue about product design.


user education 
I have collected 500+ cd's from 1983 to 2005 or so. Never had a problem to get the cd out, never damaged anything, all without education or usage guide or whatever. It's not a perfect design (it's not completely closed) but it's definately ok.