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Topic: Speakers for a small audio system (Read 9695 times) previous topic - next topic
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Speakers for a small audio system

Hello everyone,

I have a few questions that someone can help me with.  I've been a member of HydrogenAudio for a long time, but I mostly hung out in the lossy/lossless audio format sections.

Recently, I bought a Philips stereo system, which I really like and find it to be a fantastic price for $98 (picked it up at my local Walmart).
It is advertised as a 70 watt system.
Upon further research I found out the system is 35 watts per channel X's 2 = 70 watts total at 8 ohms imedence.

The system is here:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-BTM2180-37-M...s+stereo+system

I decided that I didn't like the fact that the speakers were open like that, with no grill to protect them.  Plus I thought the system might sound a little better.
I am legally blind, and every time I go to reach up towards the system, I almost accidentally poke the speaker (a couple times I have).
Plus with two cats, there could also be additional damage.

So I thought I'd do some looking around to see what I could find for alternatives.  Please keep in mind that I am on a budget, so I am trying to stick to the $130 or less rnage for a pair of speakers.

I bought two sets of speakers to try out:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/5-1-4-2-way-bo...p;cp=1&lp=6
Insignia Bookshelf Speakers (Best Buy Brand)

AND

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...ductId=25066266
Auvio 2 way satellite speakers (Radio Shack branded)

Both sets of speakers are 8 ohm impedence.

The Auvio speakers (Radio Shack brand) say that the RMS wattage is 25 watts each speaker with a peak power of 50 watts per speaker.

Question 1:
If the Auvio speakers are rated at RMS 25 watts per speaker with a peak power of 50 watts, would my Philips system be too much for these speakers?
(The Philips system is 35 watts per channel X's 2 for a total power of 70 watts).  Since the RMS of these speakers is 25 watts, I was afraid my system would damage them?

The Insignia Bookshelf speakers state that they have a max wattage of 80 watts.  This is per speaker, for a total of 160 watts.  However, nowhere in the specifications does it list the RMS wattage.  I have read on various articles that USUALLY, the RMS is about half the wattage of the peak power/maximum wattage.  This would place the insignia speakers at about 40 watts RMS using this rule of thumb. 
Would these speakers be okay?

Additional Info:
The system has a max volume of 32.  The philips system starts at 1 and increases 1 by 1 until it eaches 32.
I typically find I have the volume anywhere from about 7 to 10 - which based on the total volume, is about 30% of the max volume.  Once in a great while I have gone up to say 12 to 16 (50% max volume) but very rarely.

I really liked the Auvio Radioshack speakers because they had a plastic grill cover so that my fingers could no poke/damage the speakers.  Plus the cats can't damage them.  But as I said my system is rated 10 watts above the Radioshack speakers RMS wattage.

The Insignia speakers also sounded very well, and I liked them, but did not like the cloth grill cover.

Lastly, would anyone have any recommendations for speakers with a hard cover/grill that will work well with the above Philips system?  I want bookshelf speakers that are $130 or less.

I don't mean to be all over the place, but I have a lot of thoughts swirling through my head, and I am just trying to make sense of them.

Based on what I've read, the RMS is typically thought of an "average" wattage, which the system/speakers can continuously work at.

I look forward to reading everyone's replies. 

Thanks so much for all your help!
Kevin

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #1 –
Wattage ratings on speakers are somewhat meaningless.  You won't damage them if you continue to play at the reasonable levels you've described.  If the two options sound alike to you, pick the one that best fits your other needs.  Seems like the Auvio model is the winner.  Sad to see you spend more money when you already paid for a perfectly good pair of speakers, but if you don't like their sound it's understandable.  BTW, "poking" the speaker cones won't really hurt anything so long as you don't rip through the cone material or the rubber surround.  Why not move the speakers up and away from the control unit so you're less likely to poke them?

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #2 –
Thank you for your reply.  Yes, I see what you mean about buying new speakers even though the system already came with a pair.  Related to the original speakers, what if the tweeters have been touched very slightly as well?  There is no apparent damage or dents?  Also for the midrange driver (I was always curious about this anyway) what is the silver part covering the middle?  It almost appears to be metal or some type of protection?

Moving the speakers isn't really an option, as the system sits on my desk at home.  The desk is a two shelf tier type thing, and everything sits on the middle shelf. 
Unfortunately the cats love the top shelf.  Originally I was going to put the speakers there but they kept almost knocking them over.

I like the smaller size of the Auvio speakers, but they do sound a little more "confined" or "compressed."  They do sound very clear, but I don't think as rich as the Insignia's.  I am almost wondering if this is because the Auvio has a 3.5" midrange driver, while the Insignia has a 5 and 1/4" midrange driver?

Does anyone know of any speakers that have a better protection grill that would work for this system?

Is wattage really that unimportant?

My system per channel (35 watts per channel) is higher than the RMS rating for the Auvio (25 watts per channel).  From what I've read, peak power/peak wattage is useless, because this basically means what the speaker can handle for a very short period of time and not continuous use.  I have read if the wattage is too high, it can cause damage to the voice coils in the speakers.  Would the system being 10 watts per channel over the RMS, but 15 watts below the peak wattage still be safe if using the Auvio speakers?

Again, sorry for the questions, I am just trying to figure some things out. 

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #3 –
Quote from: KevinB52379 on
Is wattage really that unimportant?


Yeah, in this situation it most likely is, provided the figures are reasonably close to reality. What matters is that your speakers can play loud enough, and that the amp can deliver power enough for the volumes you play. If the amp cannot deliver it, then you would be even more likely to damage the speakers by trying, as clipping is prone to generate more heat. The 25 watts power handling would refer to a situation with 25 "undistorted" watts, and the handling with large THD could be much lower. Trying to push "a liar's 25 watts" amp to feed them 25 watts, that could burn them.

(Of course if you feed from a 1000 watt amp, then you could burn the speakers by accidentally getting turning the volume knob past nine o'clock. But we are far away from those figures.)

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #4 –
Thanks for the response.

But of course the question is, how do I know if the Auvio/Radio Shack brand speakers 25 watts RMS per speaker is a lie or true?

Would feeding 35 watts to them hurt them at low to moderate volumes? 

Anyone know of speakers with a better protective grill that would fit for this system?

Thanks

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #5 –
Don't obsess over the power rating. Matching it (speakers to amp) won't necessarily prevent you from blowing them up, and getting it wrong (in either direction) won't necessarily cause any problems.

Slightly more helpful speaker manufacturers simply state a recommended power amplifier rating range. My own speakers say 25 to 75 Watts. My normal amplifier is 30 Watts per channel, but they sound rather good (if not room shatteringly loud) with a 10 Watts per channel amplifier too, and they also sound rather good with a 100 Watts per channel amplifier (though common sense prevents me from putting the volume control to max).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
David.

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #6 –
I know this wattage rating thing is frustrating & confusing.

Thing is, you could probably fry the tweeter in that Radio Shack speaker with a 5 Watt high frequency test tone, and you could probably fry the woofer with a 25W continuous test tone.  But, music isn't continuous test-tones so it just wouldn't make much sense to rate the speaker at 4 Watts or so. 

The peak-to-average ratio for music is typically around 10:1 with most of the energy in the low-mid frequency range.    So, if you are running a 20W amplifier at full power (without clipping/distorting) you have an average power of around 2 Watts with most of that power going to the woofer.

There are strict (IEC?) standards for professional speakers, but I don't think many consumer speaker manufacturers follow these standards when publishing specs.    The standards call for filtered noise similar to pink noise. 

But, that still doean't give you a fool-proof answer...  Somewhere on the JBL Pro website, it says you can use an amplifier with twice the speaker's power rating with undistorted program material.    In the case of a guitar amplifier where you expect lots of distortion, the recommendations are reversed and the speaker should be rated for twice the amplifier wattage.

Because of the noise shaping, it means that JBL can sell a horn tweeter rated at 100W and it can only handle the high-frequency part of that noise with most of the power going to the woofer.  So, you can burn-out that professionally-rated 100W tweeter with less than 100W.

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #7 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
In the case of a guitar amplifier where you expect lots of distortion, the recommendations are reversed and the speaker should be rated for twice the amplifier wattage.

Whoever says that must not have any love for greenbacks paired with a 1959SLP.

Meh, I'm not buying it.

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #8 –
Quote
Whoever says that must not have any love for greenbacks paired with a 1959SLP.

Meh, I'm not buying it.
Those are just JBLs recommendations.  Here's the link if you are interested.  You can search the document for "Berated", because they misspelled "De-rated".    ...I guess they are berating your Greenback speakers!   

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #9 –
I read that and it seems you took some liberty in assuming they are talking about speakers for guitar amps.

I realize that JBL speakers have found their way into guitar amps, most notably Fender, but, AFAIC, one is better served referencing more dominant brands that are better aligned with that market.

This concludes my participation in this off-topic portion of the discussion.

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #10 –
Sorry I don't have a lot to add except another speaker suggestion...

These Pioneer SP-BS22 bookshelves are currently on sale at BestBuy, Amazon, and probably a couple other places for $100, usually are $130.  They have quite a following around the interwebs for sounding great for the money.  Unfortunately they also have cloth grilles and are a bit bigger than the Insignias.  Another thing is they are rated 6 ohms, but given you said you don't run the volume up that much I'd guess you'd be OK.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pioneer-4-34-b...p;skuId=5086955

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS22-LR-D...s=pioneer+bs-22

Good Luck
I want NBC's Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #11 –
Quote from: KevinB52379 on
Would feeding 35 watts to them hurt them at low to moderate volumes?

You're confusing what things are capable of and what they are used at. You can't feed 35 watts at "low to moderate volumes" unless the speakers are grossly inefficient or you're an awful long way away from them. Thirty-five watts (actually 70, since it's 2-channels) in most domestic settings is probably enough to make you very uncomfortable.

Think of it this way, if I buy a 200mph-capable car, will it mean I have to be caught speeding? The answer is, of course, only if I don't abide by the limits. In the same fashion, not being silly with the volume control means your speakers will be safe.

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #12 –
I've heard good things about those Insignia's. 

Personally I've never been fond of Pioneer.

I've used and recommended these multiple times:  http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-...r-pair--300-652
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #13 –
Be aware that both sets of bookshelf speakers that you linked to (as well as the Daytons mentioned) have a rather anemic 'low-end', conceivably more so than the speakers that came with your mini-system (although they're all likely notably better in most other ways).  A bass response cutoff at 80Hz or so is going to be inadequate for many contemporary music styles, but this is a common Achilles heel of inexpensive speakers.

What types of music/material do you generally listen to?

Most likely the Insignia model will have a better all-around response than the "Auvio" speakers, which look more like something you'd use for ambient audio than as your principal speakers.

I for one tend to like the "Andre Jones Designed" contemporary Pioneer speakers fairly well. If you're in the US and can put up with mail in rebates, the 5.25" woofer based Pioneer two-ways can be had for ~$70 post rebate currently at newegg. They also have a (almost certainly superior) set of Definitive Tech bookshelf units at ~$130 post rebate here.

As always, it's best to audition speakers before you buy with material that you like to listen to!

 

Speakers for a small audio system

Reply #14 –
Quote from: redsandvb on
Sorry I don't have a lot to add except another speaker suggestion...

These Pioneer SP-BS22 bookshelves are currently on sale at BestBuy, Amazon, and probably a couple other places for $100, usually are $130.  They have quite a following around the interwebs for sounding great for the money.  Unfortunately they also have cloth grilles and are a bit bigger than the Insignias.  Another thing is they are rated 6 ohms, but given you said you don't run the volume up that much I'd guess you'd be OK.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pioneer-4-34-b...p;skuId=5086955

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS22-LR-D...s=pioneer+bs-22

Good Luck


Well, that sale is done, but FYI the previous model is now ~$53 at Newegg.com, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16882117405.  It has non-removable, metal grills.  Was also designed by Andrew Jones.
I want NBC's Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!