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  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Not interested in OS debates, used android for two years and switched to windows phone 8. My reasons are my own. In trying to deal with the "unknown artist" problem I have discovered a few things. WP8 doesn't like id3v2.4. Any such tagged mp3 files show up as unknown artist. Used mp3tag to convert to 2.3. WP8 doesn't like utf enabled tags even if there are no non English characters in the artist tag. Fine, converted to ISO, no more unknown artist. My final issue is that with my own ripped cds I encode to lame mp3 using foobar2k, the release year shows up in WP8 no problem. With the few mp3s I have from other sources the album year does not display in WP8, no matter how many times I compare the tags in mp3tag, I cannot find any differences between my encoded files and other sourced mp3s. I guess the question is this: what is lame/foobar doing differently than mp3tag that allows the release year to show up? Year shows up fine in my own encoded files but not in the files sourced elsewhere despite carefully tagging them in mp3tag. Year shows up fine in windows explorer on pc.

  • 2Bdecided
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  • Developer
What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #1
From a recent answer to a similar question I asked...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=841817
...try axone.jar - it will let you see the raw ID3 information, so you can find out the real difference between the files that work and the ones that don't.

(Most taggers hide some of the complexity from you, which is great for ease of use, but hopeless for troubleshooting. Hence you need something low level, like this.)

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
David.

  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #2
Thanks for the quick reply, I tried reading through that thread but a lot of what was said is going over my head, any way you could condense it as to what is different between foobar/lame tagging and mp3tag that could cause WP8 to see the year tag in one file but not the other?
  • Last Edit: 04 September, 2013, 05:30:50 AM by Mach-X

  • 2Bdecided
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  • Developer
What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #3
...try axone.jar - it will let you see the raw ID3 information, so you can find out the real difference between the files that work and the ones that don't.


  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #4
I keep my tags extremely simple, artist album track year genre, ie even classical albums labelled as Bach/Mozart etc. With such simple tagging its perplexing that wp8 sees the year just fine in my own ripped music but not in otherwise sourced mp3 files I've used mp3tag to carefully tag. What is foobar/lame doing differently than mp3tag when both appear as id3v2.3 and display identically in windows explorer butnot in windows phone?

  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #5
Thanks again I will have to try that, since after much Google searching I can't find much other than "msoft sux" which isn't constructive at all...

  • 2Bdecided
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  • Developer
What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #6
I couldn't give you a simple answer because the two things I thought of (ID3v2.3 ISO vs Unicode and YEAR=2013 vs YEAR=2013 09 04) are both visible in mp3tag, so you would have seen them already.

If you do find out what the difference is, please post back. It would be interesting to know.

Cheers,
David.

  • saratoga
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #7
I remember windows used to (or maybe still does, haven't tried newer versions) have similar limitations in tag parsing.  Its quite possible they're reusing the same code.

Perhaps it would make sense to just use a third party player app that used a more compatible tag parser library?

  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #8
I remember windows used to (or maybe still does, haven't tried newer versions) have similar limitations in tag parsing.  Its quite possible they're reusing the same code.

Perhaps it would make sense to just use a third party player app that used a more compatible tag parser library?


Windows explorer on the pc has no issue displaying the year, it's my windows phone that is the issue. A third party player would simply use wp's built in databasing and would have the exact same problem. It's perplexing but I WILL figure this out, as I am sure I'm not the only person with a windows phone

  • saratoga
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #9
Theres probably apps that use their own built-in tag parsing though.

  • marc2003
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #10
Quote
...try axone.jar - it will let you see the raw ID3 information, so you can find out the real difference between the files that work and the ones that don't.


did you try this? although it can only open one file at a time, you can open multiple instances so you can compare 2 files side by side.

http://flying.guy.chez-alice.fr/Axone.jar

you'll need java runtimes if you don't already have them. then simply double click the downloaded .jar file and browse to your mp3s.
  • Last Edit: 04 September, 2013, 07:10:31 PM by marc2003

  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #11
Ok just started playing with Axone.jar, brilliant little thing. It would appear that there are a couple of differences in my files. First my non personally encoded files have a bunch of extra garbage entries that mp3tag doesn't list in the headers, specifically about a dozen 'priv' tags, I have no idea what those are or if I can even get mp3tag to strip them out. The other difference is that when I use mp3tag to make any adjustments, the order the tags are written in is different than how foobar/lame writes them out. Could this be confusing windows phone 8's tag parser? I can't even test it out because last night I dropped the phone in the driveway, and it's now garbage. Gotta wait until I can pick up another one....one other thing I will try is to simply use id3v1 tags since I keep things simple and neat anyway.

  • marc2003
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #12
i know windows media player creates a load of priv tags. it would be hilarious if that was the cause of the problem - but unlikely considering it's a windows phone. not sure about mp3tag but foobar can quickly strip them away. select some files in a playlist>right click>properties. highlight all fields in the properties dialog>right click>copy (this puts all the tags you want to keep on the clipboard). now use the tools button>remove tags. WARNING: this does remove everything, including embedded art. when you have done that, right click and paste fields. now click ok and that's it.

and i really would not use id3v1. id3v2.3 should be fine on it's own.

  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #13
I think I have it figured out, I used mp3tag to strip a file and retag and then did the same with foobar2000, and yes they write the metadata in different order. mp3tag, the year comes after the track, in foobar the year comes before the track. So it appears that WP8 doesn't like it when the year is after track number. The only issue now is to get the cash together to replace my busted phone so I can verify my hypothesis.  This is for id3v2.3, id3v1 tags are always in the same order. Well now I have the solution, let foobar do the tagging. Thanks all for your replies, stripping the garbage out also fixed the 'incorrect length' errors that were in some of these. Once I can verify this 100% on a new phone, is it worth sending an email to the mp3tag developer to let him know how it affects windows phones?

  • 2Bdecided
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  • Developer
What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #14
Post it on the mp3tag message boards.

However, if it really is the order in which the tag fields appear which upsets the windows phone, that would be completely broken behaviour. The ID3v2.3 specification very clearly says "There is no fixed order of the frames' appearance in the tag, although it is desired that the frames are arranged in order of significance concerning the recognition of the file. An example of such order: UFID, TIT2, MCDI, TRCK ...".

Maybe wait until you've got another phone and confirmed that it's only this difference which triggers this problem before telling anyone else. If it's true, I'd certainly tell Microsoft.

Cheers,
David.

  • marc2003
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #15
well i do know of another microsoft product that is affected by tag order. if you embed multiple images into an mp3, you'll get an APIC frame for each one. each one has a clearly defined type such as front, back, etc. but when windows explorer encounters multiple APIC frames, it always displays the first one as it appears in order regardless of the type. really it should be checking for and displaying the front cover only.

  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #16
Okay, checking back in now that I have a replacement phone. Here's what I have learned:

Unknown Artist : there were two factors here. It wasn't the order of the tags or iso vs utf as I had thought, it was a)the fact windows phone doesn't like 'illegal characters' in tags, so AC/DC shows up as 'Unknown Artist' and has to be tagged as 'AC-DC' or something similar, and b)the other 'unknown artist' files were the ones with all the extra garbage 'priv' tags. Once the tags are cleaned up all is fine.

Unknown Year : Here's the REALLY strange one. If you copy your files over usb cable, it uses media transfer, not mass storage, and the year WILL NOT appear. Ever. Yet if I copy any of the files back to my pc, the tags aren't modified in any way and are 100% intact. Now, are you ready for this? If you remove the sd card from the phone and connect it to your pc directly as an external drive, and THEN copy the files over, reinsert into phone, voila, you get the year.

  • Mach-X
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #17
Sorry to necro my own topic, I forgot to mention windows phone 8 finally supports folder.jpg for album art, solving the major bitch I've had with wmp/zune for ages, what was marring the best music interface anywhere. (sorry rockbox, I love you but you are fugly). Now Microsoft, fix gapless FFS, considering the zunehd handles lame gapless just fine, WTF.

  • viktor
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #18
After more than a year, still no support for

- ID3v2.4
- ReplayGain
- FLAC
- gapless
- cuesheets

What we get is a shitload of unknown artists instead. Like seriously, slash is not allowed in tags? The WHOLE POINT of tagging is to avoid such problems in filenames. I'm very disappointed.

Does iOS support these or is it just as crappy? Though even if it does, its storage is ridiculously limited.

Android is out of question, I truly hate it for various other reasons.

Or can you recommend me a DAP that supports all these plus has great battery life? I don't need touch screen, wifi or other fancy crap, it should do one thing well instead of doing many things badly.
  • Last Edit: 28 November, 2014, 05:12:34 PM by viktor

  • saratoga
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #19
An iPod would have great battery life and gapless, but not FLAC (although ALAC is an option).

A Sansa with rockbox would do all of that except maybe battery life (15-25 hours with FLAC depending on the exact model). 

Sony makes some players with good battery life and flac, but I don't know much about them.

  • viktor
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #20
Oh sweet, that's a start. I guess most Rockbox-compatible DAPs will do then. I'll also look into the Sony gear, they make some decent stuff. Thanks for the pointers, mate.
  • Last Edit: 28 November, 2014, 05:50:56 PM by viktor

  • marc2003
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #21
are there not 3rd party player apps for windows phone? i must admit, i'm a complete ignoramus on the whole topic of smart phones/tablets. i've never even used one. 
  • Last Edit: 28 November, 2014, 06:28:41 PM by marc2003

  • viktor
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #22
There are, but I could only find players that recognize ID3v2.3 tags correctly, at least. No word on the other features. If I'm missing something, please let me know

  • marc2003
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #23
if you're happy with your phone for all other things, just keep it and grab yourself a sansa clip+ or zip purely for music duties. they're cheap enough to be disposable, have all the features you require when rockbox-ed and take microSDHC/SDXC cards which which are now available in 64/128GB variants. ok battery life is shorter than some other players but that's a pretty small compromise to make. it's probably still more than what you're used to with a phone.

  • viktor
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What specific issues does windows phone 8 have with id3 tags?
Reply #24
Indeed, I'd mostly use it for running, so I'll go with the Zip. It's ridiculously cheap, I can get one for $40 on eBay.

OTOH it's a shame they can't run the Rockbox on the Clip Sport, it looks better and has the battery life of the Fuze+...

As for phone battery life, Lumia 720 all the way! These things last for 2 or 3 days. I hear the Lumia 730 is just as good. Too bad these smartphones are (still) totally worthless for an audiophile.

Once I had an iAudio 7, it had 60 hours playback time. I loved that, but then I lost it... and of course, Rockbox support has never been finished... I'm wondering tho, if they could achieve such great battery life back in the day, why can't they (why don't they) do it nowadays...

Either way, thanks fellas.
  • Last Edit: 28 November, 2014, 07:05:13 PM by viktor