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Topic: Microsoft to abandon standalone IE (Read 7220 times) previous topic - next topic
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Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1011859.ht...art=dht&tag=nhl

So does this mean that users of Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000, and possibly Windows XP will not be able to upgrade their browsers to future versions?  I mean, every windows since 98 includes IE and downloading this 'standalone' browser meant an upgrade.  So by withdrawing the 'standalone' component would mean this avenue of upgrade is gone....

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #1 –
IIRC, from reading the article on the microsoft site, I got the impression that updates would still be available, but only through something like the windows update function, and only for recent versions of windows (2k/xp).  I have a hard time imagining that they simply aren't going to update the product other than at every OS revision.

On a side note, especially if the latter is true, I'm glad that alternatives like Mozilla exist...

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #2 –
First off I can understand from a technical support point of view the decision to do this. Especially in light of Microsoft's knack for never quite getting things right and their inability to fix long standing core problems with their software and design. Unlike BSD or even Linux which from their earliest incarnations could constantly upgraded often without even restarting the system to keep up to date with the latest technology and remain quite stable indeed. Each new version of Windows generally marks a divergence from prior versions and hacks to circum navigate to a large extent ever existing problems. It is to put it mildly a public relations nightmare and tech support hell.

Correct me if I am wrong though. Whether this means that people running older versions of Windows will not be able to use the latest versions or that the browser itself is irrevocably tied to the specific opperating system version. Doesn't this specifically go against the limited results of the Microsoft anti-trust settlement? Specifically that things like the browser may not be tied wholly to the OS? Granted that the browser at this point can be removed from the OS. But the resulting OS would not be worth the media it was stored on since the largest parts of common use in Windows are built around the browser. A case of flawed design if I ever heard one. The question is will they get away with it. I lean towards yes. And it will definatly help them neddlessly sell people new versions of their OS even though they don't need it.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #3 –
IE was never cross-platform.
There was always a separate version for 2k/XP, and separate for 98/SE/ME (and I believe that there are some differences between particular OSes too). Win95 and NT4 were dropped already.
Since a lot of work is needed to make it work everywhere, they are simply droping it.

BTW, they still have problem with transparent PNG support:
Quote
Host: Rob (Microsoft)
Q: when will IE get transparent PNG support?

A: Ian, I'm sorry, I can't answer that question for you

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #4 –
Quote
IE was never cross-platform.
There was always a separate version for 2k/XP, and separate for 98/SE/ME (and I believe that there are some differences between particular OSes too). Win95 and NT4 were dropped already.
Since a lot of work is needed to make it work everywhere, they are simply droping it.

BTW, they still have problem with transparent PNG support:
Quote
Host: Rob (Microsoft)
Q: when will IE get transparent PNG support?

A: Ian, I'm sorry, I can't answer that question for you

Actually it is cross platform. It runs on the other platform Microsoft has a large stake in. Apple Macintosh. And on the Macintosh IE has perfect PNG alpha transparency support.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #5 –
Quote
Actually it is cross platform. It runs on the other platform Microsoft has a large stake in. Apple Macintosh. And on the Macintosh IE has perfect PNG alpha transparency support.

Yes, I know that, but IE can't be counted as true cross-platform application.
There is a separate code for MacOS (that's why it supports transparent PNG).

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #7 –
Quote
Quote
Actually it is cross platform. It runs on the other platform Microsoft has a large stake in. Apple Macintosh. And on the Macintosh IE has perfect PNG alpha transparency support.

Yes, I know that, but IE can't be counted as true cross-platform application.
There is a separate code for MacOS (that's why it supports transparent PNG).

True true. But the product is cross platform whether the code is or not. But lets not quibble about it.  Anyhow I do use Mozilla based browsers so I am happy.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #8 –
I only use Opera and the moz family browsers (on the windows systems)- IE is added to the blocked list on my software firewall immediately after installation of windows.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #9 –
I'm personally waiting for 2klite so I can get RID of IE, anyway...

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #10 –
Quote
True true. But the product is cross platform whether the code is or not. But lets not quibble about it.  Anyhow I do use Mozilla based browsers so I am happy.

Ah, if you put it that way, yes

And, yes, Mozilla is true cross-platform application (and actually very good).

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #11 –
Slightly off-topic here...

Not to diss, Mozilla has a superb rendering engine, Gecko (standards-compliant blah blah blah), has nice integrated features (popup blocking, tabbed browsing), but it loses out to IE in one area that most average people consider the most important.

Usuability. By that, I mean the interface, and how polished it is. Mozilla ( & Opera for that matter ) clearly fall behind on IE on this, they've got small UI glitches and inconsistencies that popup all over.

So I would definitely recommend Moz & Opera to power users and people who won't mind those glitches, but for your average user, IE is still *slightly* better.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #12 –
The only thing I really like at IE and miss in Mozilla is that you can set exceptions for cookies - you can e.g. set IE to block all cookies except the ones from hydrogenaudio.org

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #13 –
Quote
I'm personally waiting for 2klite so I can get RID of IE, anyway...

I ran 98lite in the middle of last year to remove IE and I must say Win98 became a total joke without the browser. Sure the system was more secure without all the exploits, and didn't crash during the month I was running the system IE-less but a whole lot of the functionality was gone.

Whatsmore trying to reinstall IE freshly as stated in the documentation doesn't necessarily work as trouble-free one may expect. I think removing the browser and then later deciding to reinstall it opens a whole can of worms - which I will not attempt again.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #14 –
Quote
Slightly off-topic here...

Not to diss, Mozilla has a superb rendering engine, Gecko (standards-compliant blah blah blah), has nice integrated features (popup blocking, tabbed browsing), but it loses out to IE in one area that most average people consider the most important.

Usuability. By that, I mean the interface, and how polished it is. Mozilla ( & Opera for that matter ) clearly fall behind on IE on this, they've got small UI glitches and inconsistencies that popup all over.

So I would definitely recommend Moz & Opera to power users and people who won't mind those glitches, but for your average user, IE is still *slightly* better.

What UI glitches are you talking about? If you use the standard skin then there is not a problem to speak of. Foreward, Back, Refresh, Stop are all displayed perfectly. And all the menus up top as well. The only glitches I have ever encountered were in the rendering engine. Things rarely encountered like the linewrap bug.

To what UI bugs of you speak. In my estimation they are all quite equal.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #15 –
Quote
The only thing I really like at IE and miss in Mozilla is that you can set exceptions for cookies - you can e.g. set IE to block all cookies except the ones from hydrogenaudio.org

I have never gotten it to work correctly under IE6 but I have been using selective cookie blocking under Mozilla for a year an a half now no problems what so ever.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #16 –
This is what I've pieced together: IE is basically just a frontend, everything else is considered OS-level APIs. The frontend (IE) has been discontinued, there won't be any new releases, and it won't be included in future Microsoft products. The APIs though, will remain as part of the OS and will continue to be updated.

How do I get this? Well, Microsoft has already said that in Windows Longhorn you'll be able to browse web sites right through the GUI. And now they say there'll be no more "standalone" IE releases (very vague.. maybe they mean no new versions)...

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #17 –
another step towards "palladium" 
Rommel

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #19 –
Quote
Not to diss, Mozilla has a superb rendering engine, Gecko (standards-compliant blah blah blah), has nice integrated features (popup blocking, tabbed browsing), but it loses out to IE in one area that most average people consider the most important.

Usuability. By that, I mean the interface, and how polished it is. Mozilla ( & Opera for that matter ) clearly fall behind on IE on this, they've got small UI glitches and inconsistencies that popup all over.

So I would definitely recommend Moz & Opera to power users and people who won't mind those glitches, but for your average user, IE is still *slightly* better.

That's why Mozilla Firebird was started for. To bring Gecko to an average user. And, during 1.5 and 1.6, Firebird and Thunderbird are becoming part of Mozilla. So, this is going to be solved

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #20 –
I just wish they would release a new version that:

1) works with PNG images properly.
2) renders CSS properly.

Yeh, I know they claim CSS compliance, but if you have access to IE and another browser such as Moz, check out my homepage to see what I'm talking about.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #21 –
Quote
I just wish they would release a new version that:

1) works with PNG images properly.
2) renders CSS properly.

Yeh, I know they claim CSS compliance, but if you have access to IE and another browser such as Moz, check out my homepage to see what I'm talking about.

You forgot #3!!!!

3) Generate propper colors for their respective HTML codes.

IE rapes HTML colors and screws them to hell and back. I had an image with a solid color background. I sampled that color in PS7 and pulled up the color picker and got the HTML code from there. I put the code in for the body background color and it was perfect in all Mozilla and opera. But in IE the background of the body was lighter than the background of the image. WTF?! It's the same color!!!!

Nice page BTW. That layout looks so familliar.  http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/comp...piral/demo.html
nice site.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #22 –
Quote
IE rapes HTML colors and screws them to hell and back. I had an image with a solid color background. I sampled that color in PS7 and pulled up the color picker and got the HTML code from there. I put the code in for the body background color and it was perfect in all Mozilla and opera. But in IE the background of the body was lighter than the background of the image. WTF?! It's the same color!!!!

Indeed, that has been a bug in IE for years. I remember reading about it back in 1999.

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #23 –
Quote
another step towards "palladium" 

Exactly!  Man this will be a disaster. Palladium faqs. The Register. Yet another web page! Man this is creepy  . This means too much control over what we do. Time to switch to Mac OS or even Linux  .

Edit: Typo
[span style=\'font-size:10pt;line-height:100%\']Ib[/span]

Microsoft to abandon standalone IE

Reply #24 –
I've switched to Firebird, no more IE gheyness like PNG transparency support not working and other standard non compliance.

Mozilla and Firebird contributors keep up the good work. 

IE team, SHAME ON YOU.