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  • o-l-a-v
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Hi

Bought some AIFF files from beatport. When converting them to FLAC with foobar2000 it gives me a message in the end about some "garbage" that has been removed.
Compared FLACs TAudioConverter gives me, FLACs from fb2k are some bytes smaller.

What are these bytes of "garbage"? And do i loose any audible information? I can't seem to hear any difference, but i want to be sure before i delete the AIFF-files.

Code: [Select]
3 out of 3 tracks converted with minor problems.

Source: "C:\Users\Olav\Desktop\3252595_Bring_The_Club_Down_Organ_Donors_Remix.aiff"
  Incomplete or malformed chunk encountered at 77188688 bytes
  Extra garbage at the end, 132864 bytes
Source: "C:\Users\Olav\Desktop\4144878_Sweetest_Sin_Original.aiff"
  Extra garbage at the end, 40872 bytes
Source: "C:\Users\Olav\Desktop\4198043_Till_The_Sky_Falls_Down_Isaac_Remix.aiff"
  Extra garbage at the end, 57338 bytes

  • marc2003
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #1
i think the issue is that foobar does not support aiff tagging of any kind and these files probably have them.

foo_bitcompare should confirm the audio is the same.

http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_bitcompare

  • Last Edit: 09 April, 2013, 06:40:42 AM by marc2003

  • o-l-a-v
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #2
i think the issue is that foobar does not support aiff tagging of any kind and these files probably have them.

foo_bitcompare should confirm the audio is the same.

http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_bitcompare


That might be true. All the tags is forgot in conversion progress.
Will test that plugin, thanks

Edit: You were right
Code: [Select]
All tracks decoded fine, no differences found.

Comparing:
"C:\Users\Olav\Desktop\4198043_Till_The_Sky_Falls_Down_Isaac_Remix.aiff"
"C:\Users\Olav\Desktop\Flac level 8\4198043_Till_The_Sky_Falls_Down_Isaac_Remix.flac"
No differences in decoded data found.
  • Last Edit: 09 April, 2013, 07:10:57 AM by o-l-a-v

  • EpicForever
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #3
Yeah, I mentioned this before. Exactly the same issue with exactly the same source of files. The only thing I miss about foobar is metadata handling for AIFF. Or simple statement "no it won't be implemented - never".

  • marc2003
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #4
i think Peter likes to surprise people. i never imagined in a million years that tagging of wave files would be added but then it was. same goes for embedding art in files. people have been pestering politely querying on the forums for years with no response and then... pow!

(i use neither of these things by the way. i prefer the sound of my compressed lossless files.    )
  • Last Edit: 09 April, 2013, 12:07:19 PM by marc2003

  • dobo
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #5
Just like Epicforever I've seen the same as well on converting from aiff, It would be interesting to know if the bit compare shows the audio is the same or not though. I'm sure i read somewhere that if flac encoder sees something it doesnt know it ignores it or something..

Also can anyone confirm if taudioconvertor retains the aiff tags and art?

  • EpicForever
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #6
@marc - AIFF metadata would be usefull for me in 2 ways - reading them by Converter to have tagged FLACs and exporting album art to manually embedd it in FLAC. Beatport lowered prices for AIFF upgrades. They are now bit more affordable. Sfter some time they will be even more affordable. It would be great pain in the ass to have loads of aiffs that require installing iTunes (omg how this s***t sucks) only to read metadata. And I'm not even sure whether iShit reads all fields provided by Beatport, like ISRC for example. Manual re-tagging FLACs using iTunes or dBpoweramp shell extension is really boring and annoying. Most of new electronic releases aren't present on Discogs, so using Discogs tagger isn't a solution.

  • marc2003
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #7
dBpoweramp shell extension


if that supports aiff tags, then surely the full converter would as well? i know this doesn't address the issue at hand with foobar2000 but i'd be looking for the easiest solution to my problem.

  • EpicForever
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #8
Honestly I think it's better to spend that 20-30$ on AIFFs and manually tag FLACs rather than spending it on software intented only to be music converter - and only for one format. At least on my PC. I just like foobar. And all my keyboard shortcuts. Even despite I don't remember at least half of them

  • Peter
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  • Administrator
AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #9
i think Peter likes to surprise people. i never imagined in a million years that tagging of wave files would be added but then it was. same goes for embedding art in files. people have been pestering politely querying on the forums for years with no response and then... pow!
AIFF tagging implemented in 1.2.5 (was already done when I saw your post in case you're wondering).

My point of view:
When fb2k's file format handlers were originally written, ID3v2 was considered a "bullshit standard" - it wasn't even supported out of the box until late 0.9 alpha or beta! As a result of that, any non-MP3 formats that relied on ID3v2 for tagging - or used some other crippled spec - were left untaggable.
I still think embedding ID3v2 in formats other than MP3 is a harmful practice, but if it's the only way of tagging that other software recognizes, it's better than no tagging at all, and not much work to implement now on top of our own existing ID3v2 handler.
  • Last Edit: 12 April, 2013, 08:21:35 AM by Peter

  • marc2003
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #10
nice update, thanks.

although i don't use aiff, i just tested 1.2.5b1 converting a flac album > aiff and there is a problem with only some of the files being tagged.

screenshot

  • EpicForever
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #11
Praise the lord !! Praise the lord !! Praise the lord !!

  • dobo
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #12
AIFF tagging in latest foobar beta is a great addition, im sure peter made many DJ and beatport users happy!

However..

Converting AIFF to flac i've not been able to get any embedded cover art to be copied to the flac files, i've confirmed this in a couple of different programs.
The normal tags appear to have copied ok though.
I also did a bit compare and that matched just fine so no issues there

Another anomaly i noticed in foobar is that whilst the original AIFF does contain the embedded album art it doesnt display it. but if i use a third party tool to convert from the original AIFF to flac, foobar does show the album art in the newly created flac file.

maybe foobar is not reading the album art from id3 tags that are in AIFF files correctly

still a massive step forward


  • db1989
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  • Global Moderator
AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #13
I can’t comment on art not being read from AIFF, but as for this:
Converting AIFF to flac i've not been able to get any embedded cover art to be copied to the flac files, i've confirmed this in a couple of different programs.
The normal tags appear to have copied ok though.
The Converter still does not support automatic transfer of art from source to destination files. In case Peter comes back to this thread, can we lodge another collective request to have this added so the query won’t pop up again every couple of months?

  • EpicForever
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #14
dobo, have you sucessfully transfered cover art when transcoding between any other formats? For example between FLAC and MP3? If you did, then tell me how.... This option is simply unsupported. For any transcode scenario, between any formats. But you can always export embedded  cover art using built in foobar functionality and embedd it again in transcoded file. You can even embedd single cover (or all front, back, disc, artist and icon) into all tracks from a single album - just with several clicks.

  • eahm
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #15
Peter, Is the conversion from FLAC to AIFF supposed to copy the tags as well? FLAC to AIFF gives zero tags, empty.

Using foobar2000 1.2.5 beta 1.
  • Last Edit: 12 April, 2013, 03:32:06 PM by eahm

  • dobo
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #16
Quote
dobo, have you successfully transferred cover art when transcoding between any other formats? For example between FLAC and MP3? If you did, then tell me how.... This option is simply unsupported. For any transcode scenario, between any formats. But you can always export embedded cover art using built in foobar functionality and embedd it again in transcoded file. You can even embedd single cover (or all front, back, disc, artist and icon) into all tracks from a single album - just with several clicks.


OK i just tried FLAC with embedded art to mp3 conversion and sure enough the album art did not transfer across, so thanks for pointing that out, so yes this affects more than AIFF and appears non supported for now  So yea thats a bit of unexpected.

But, im standing by my other comment that you cant see album art in an AIFF in foobar, and you cant select manage to manage the album art but attach and remove option is there though.

Also i just tried to further test the theory and it wouldn't even let me attach album art to the AIFF.

i bet the developers wish they never heard of embedded album art (its pretty neat though my mp3 player and av receiver support this)

  • eahm
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #17
Attached picture editing failure on "07. Colors.aiff": Attached picture operations not supported for this file format
Attached picture editing failure on "07. Colors.wav": Attached picture operations not supported for this file format

Are you sure there is a way to attach albumarts with aiff files? Does beatport support albumart for aiff files?

Raw files are meant for editing and not really for entertainment and "portable" use, I don't think they will ever support integration of album arts, that's why we have compressed lossless codecs such as FLAC, ALAC etc.
  • Last Edit: 12 April, 2013, 03:35:25 PM by eahm

  • EpicForever
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #18
Both Beatport and iTunes support album art in AIFF.

  • eahm
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #19
iTunes supports the albumart for AIFF and WAV but it doesn't write the albumart in the file like with ALAC or AAC.

Wrong, just tested and it does it for the AIFF only, it actually resets every tag for the WAV every time the file is being copied.
  • Last Edit: 12 April, 2013, 09:47:31 PM by eahm

  • EpicForever
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #20
It could be nice if album art was supported in foobar for AIFF and even for both AIFF and WAV, but "nice" doesn't mean it's necessary. It is always nice to have more features than less. But in case of album art in AIFF or WAV - who will keep and maintain his/her collection in any of these formats? Support for tags is usefull - you can retain tags while compressing it to "normal" lossless files - like FLAC, ALAC, Monkeys, TTA, OFR, SHN, lossless WavPack and whatever will ever come. And of course it will help retain tags when you want to make your Beatport files portable and compress it to any lossy file for your portable music player. That was the main reason why I bothered about support for metadata in AIFF. Other reasons are nealy irrelevant (because iTunes can and dBpoweramp shell ext can).
The truth is that if you really care about cover art, you can find it at webstore where you bought the file or at Discogs and embedd it on your own.

  • Case
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  • Developer (Donating)
AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #21
1.2.5 beta 2 is out now that fixes AIFF tagging, adds support for album art in AIFF and WAV files and lets the Converter copy art from source to encodes.

  • marc2003
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #22
^nice. i'm sure transferring embedded album art is going to be very popular amongst the masses. 

now that foobar is writing id3v2 tags to aiff files, perhaps the mp3 tagging section in the advanced preferences should be renamed?

  • EpicForever
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #23
I noticed strange thing with 1.2.5 beta 2. When I drag & drop whole "Beatport" directory, which contains subdirectories with each order, metadata tags aren't read. When I did the same in 1.2.5 beta 1 it worked. Now I have to use "reload metadata" command to have tags from AIFFs on playlist. This is bit dissapointing. Also I noticed other thing - older AIFFs from Beatport and new ones with old tracks doesn't contain regular cover art, but an image with waveform instead. iTunes reads this, dBpoweramp shell ext also shows it in Windows Explorer - but foobar don't. But this second thing is not a serious problem, I don't even expect it to be fixed, I just inform about it.

EDIT:
Hm... I also found that several regular covers from Beatport's AIFFs aren't read by foobar (even after another metadata reload command), but they are shown in Windows Explorer by dBpoweramp shell ext. This can be problematic for some people (excluding me).
  • Last Edit: 14 April, 2013, 11:36:09 AM by EpicForever

  • dobo
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AIFF -> Flac gives "Extra garbage at the end"
Reply #24
I've done a few tests and found a few things.

Some AIFF are displaying the covert art whilst some arnt, i did notice in my case that the AIFF that displayed the cover art had a v2.3 tag whilst the ones that didnt had a v2.4 tag. Maybe EpicForever can confirm?

Also confirm epicforever comment about some additional art stored in the files not being read (this affects mp3, flac etc as well from what i can see) dbpoweramp, mp3tag support additional cover types, not a major issue for me

If you try to convert an AIFF with id3v2.4 with embeded art you get an error

AN error occurred while transferring attached pictures (Unsupported format or corrupted file)

maybe not a bug but you cant change id3tag version within foobar for AIFF like you can for mp3